Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

[Truth7t7]

I'm wondering if it's about a prophecy of a future fulfillment in which Christ is crucified afresh.

Your suggestion would be considered by many to be "Heresy"

Jesus Christ died "Once" for the sins of the world, he dieth no more, death hath no more dominion over him

Romans 6:9-10KJV
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

 

[Evmur]

The New covenant was made with the "World" For God So Loved The World

The Jews Rejected Jesus Christ, the Kingdom has been taken from them and given to Gods Israel the Church

You claim of self exaltation is false, as I oppose you teachings in Christian Zionism in Dual Covenant Theology

It was according to God's predeterminate plan that the Jews should reject their King ... what ya got to say about that then? it is because they rejected Christ that YOU are saved today.

The same predetermined plan which foretold Israel's rejection of God and their fall from grace foretold their restoration in the latter days.

 

[Truth7t7]

Read what I have quoted above and weep for your own ignorance. No one said anything about telephones and internet. That is your own carnal thinking.

The telephones and internet to your floating New Jerusalem, are as real as the teaching you promote, Beam Me Up Scotty

In Love

Jesus Is the Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

It was according to God's predeterminate plan that the Jews should reject their King ... what ya got to say about that then? it is because they rejected Christ that YOU are saved today.

The same predetermined plan which foretold Israel's rejection of God and their fall from grace foretold their restoration in the latter days.

Only The Remnant Elect Jew, Those Whom God Foreknew, Will Be Saved And Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

"Israel Is The Church", Children Of The Promised Seed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Is Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

Romans 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Romans 11:28KJV
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

1 Peter 1:2KJV
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[OldSage]

So basically you are in full agreement with Evmur?

Only The Remnant Elect Jew, Those Whom God Foreknew, Will Be Saved And Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

"Israel Is The Church", Children Of The Promised Seed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Is Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

Romans 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Romans 11:28KJV
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

1 Peter 1:2KJV
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[Truth7t7]

So basically you are in full agreement with Evmur?

I agree with what is before your eyes

Only The Remnant Elect Jew, Those Whom God Foreknew, Will Be Saved And Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

"Israel Is The Church", Children Of The Promised Seed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Is Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

Romans 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Romans 11:28KJV
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

1 Peter 1:2KJV
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[OldSage]

If the root be holy then the whole lump also.
Don't forget that those under the Old Covenant for 2000 years
will be judged under it as well.

Romans 2:12
All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Matthew 5:19
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Truth7t7]

If the root be holy then the whole lump also.
Don't forget that those under the Old Covenant for 2000 years
will be judged under it as well.

Romans 2:12
All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Matthew 5:19
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Who are you responding to?

Try using the reply in response to a poster, that would help greatly

 

[OldSage]

It was to you 77

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It clearly states (Seventy Weeks) You Arent Going To Change Gods Words

Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Exactly why are you using my argument lol. Seventy Sevens is not the same writing as thousand two hundred and ninety.

It clearly states (Seventy Weeks) You Arent Going To Change Gods Words

You do realize the KJV was translated by humans? You do realize the Bible wasn't written in 1500s English? I simply used the Hebrew Word which often carries more weight and meaning than our English words. The Hebrew language had less letters so words often carry a more in depth meaning. Just look up the word for day, it can carry up to four different meanings.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Bottom Line, Only The Remnant Elect Jew, Those Whom God Foreknew, Will Be Saved And Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

"Israel Is The Church", Children Of The Promised Seed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Is Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

Romans 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Romans 11:28KJV
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

1 Peter 1:2KJV
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I'd like to bring to your mind Paul uses a different form of the word meaning "to choose/elect". It is a noun he used, whereas the word for "elect" that Jesus and others spoke of is an adjective. A direct translation for each would be "selection" and "the chosen" respectively. When Paul used this word, it seems that he meant "choosing" in terms of setting people to certain works. Check the whole usage here. It seems incorrect to mix up "election" and "elect".

The word for "Elect" in 1 Pe 1:2 is also an adjective interpreted as Chosen.

(By the way, it's not actually in Verse 2 in Greek but in Verse 1 as below)

Πέτρος ἀπόστολος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐκλεκτοῖς παρεπιδήμοις διασπορᾶς (Apostle of Jesus Christ, Chosen to the scattered strangers)

I don't know why it's in verse 2 in English. Very strange.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Just to be clear, I think Paul is talking about the few (144,000) that God has reserved as the 7000 he did in Elijah's time. Not the Elect (chosen ones) Jesus and others were talking about.

"Israel Is The Church", Children Of The Promised Seed

• So I do not understand how you've merged Israel and Church just from that term.
• Also Israel is not "Children" of Abraham. The seed of Abraham is a singular noun (entity), is it not? - The enmity between the woman's "seed" and the serpent's "seed" (singular).
• When the Bible reads "Israel", does it not mean the 12 tribes? (as in "all Israel will be saved") Also of Paul's writings. (Of course except when it was broken off from Judah.)

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

but it it high time that you did some serious Bible study for yourself

this is sadly the kind of attempts at disapproving (offending) people that people do to others they encounter on the internet without caring to know much about them, and you just did just that... (to assume that I have not been serious about the Bible.) Peace of God with you.

As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

• How do you interpret this as a transformation moment? I can only see that Lord defends it here.

Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken. (Isa 33:20)

• Again, where in this verse did you see a moment of its transformation?

Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. (Isa 52:1)

• Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
• I don't see it as a transformation. (As changing form. Just re-dressed in deeds)
• Yes. That verse is likely where the saints purify the bride Jerusalem. But... HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY DETERMINE THAT THIS IS THE JERUSALEM ON HAGAR THE BONDWOMAN'S SIDE????????? Hm?

Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem. The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. (Isa 52:9,10)

• Where is the transformation, again?
• But I do now realized that the Crucifixion redeemed the sinners and not Jerusalem itself because it's the one that killed the Son. So thanks for that actually.

Because you have already made up your mind that it will not happen. That is called self-delusion.

I did not make up my mind on anything. I simply stated "I don't see." It's a fact, isn't it? An honest one.

Furthermore, you are unable to distinguish between Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem (two totally different entities).

• Put your sword back into your sheath, for those who draw sword will die by the sword. I feel heat from this post. I really don't understand the kind of aggression traditional Christians put forth against others. Gee. Peace be with you. :c
• Also, if you don't mean by "transformation" new Jeruselem, then what do you mean by transformation?

 

[OldSage]

It clearly states (Seventy Weeks) You Arent Going To Change Gods Words

Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

It is the word "Shabuwa" that was uttered by Gabriel, which means years or weeks, but is understood by all Hebrew Scholars, bar none, here to mean years, due to some particularity of the Hebrew language. You know, these are the guys that spend their entire lives immersed in Hebrew scrolls....I think at the point you can make no serious or reputable case against this, you become a Bible extremist.

You have at least aided me to make better sense of Peter. Thank you!
'no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.'

Sorry 77. Here you become 78.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

If jerusalem is considered as 7 hills

• Jerusalem consists of "hills"? Where is the mention of that?

and Jesus was crucified on the Mt of Olives, then we can say he was crucified in Jerusalem.

• Uhm... The mount of Olives was outside Jerusalem... actually. (according to Luke.)

Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

 

[OldSage]

• Jerusalem are "hills"? Where is the mention of that?

• Uhm... The mount of Olives was outside Jerusalem... actually. (according to Luke.)

Yes you are right.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

weep for your own ignorance.

I'd like to weep for your aggressive speech / attitude. *thumbs down

 

[mailmandan]

US seeing wave of 'textbook anti-Semitism' amid Israel-Gaza tensions

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-seeing-wave-of-textbook-anti-semitism-amid-israel-gaza-tensions

 

[OldSage]

I meant a Heptad of years = 7 years.

 

[kaylagrl]

US seeing wave of 'textbook anti-Semitism' amid Israel-Gaza tensions

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-seeing-wave-of-textbook-anti-semitism-amid-israel-gaza-tensions

Yep, and they were flying Palestinian flags, so no doubt it was anti - Semitism. But that's the history of replacement theology, violence against the Jews.