Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

[Truth7t7]

Without race and heritage there would have been no Israel and no Jesus though. And without heritage there would be no Church, as we inherit the promises of Abraham. In fact we are heirs to Israel. That is pretty mind-blowing 7.

Even desolate Jerusalem, the cursed Jews, have been used by God for a specific purpose for 2000 years.

I thank God for faithful Noah, Faithful Jacob & Abraham, The Faithful Prophets, And My God And Savior Jesus Christ, In His Finished Work On Calvary.

We Are Heirs In The Lineage Of Jacob, Who's Name Was Changed To Israel

Matthew 21:43KJV
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Clearly there was no temple in existence in 1948, so I would conclude that this prophecy has nothing to do with modern time.

Perhaps you've seen something like the following post, which I made some time back... bearing in mind what I said in an earlier post about Ezek37-39 (esp. the "dry bones" prophecy) seeming to unfold in "stages"...

Consider:

[quoting old post]


Here's how I'm seeing that.

--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity]

TO 1948ad [Nation of Israel]

= 2520y (factored in 360 day years, as "time-prophecies" relating to Israel are often factored); and



--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"]

TO 1967ad [Jerusalem Regained (apart from which, there can be no temple)]

= 2520y (ditto the above)



--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]



...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones).


--Ezekiel 4 is 430 yrs, 360 yrs of which were "remaining"; and

--[minus] 2Chronicles 36:21, "until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years [70 yrs]"; and

--[times] Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],

"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."



So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y]



I think this has to be more than "coincidence" (and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel])



____________

[caveat: I've posted before that I see Scripture referring to "the fig tree" as something DISTINCT from "Israel" (which according to Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house OF ISRAEL"... and according to the parable in Lk13:6 "[a certain man] had A FIG TREE planted IN his VINEYARD"--showing there to be two DISTINCT items, though somewhat in relation to each other, that are NOT IDENTICAL... so I'm not really convinced that "the fig tree parable" in Matt24:32-34/Mk13:28-30/Lk21:29-32 speaks specifically of "Israel," but more like something associated with Israel (which is itself identified as the "vineyard")]


[end quoting old post]


____________


Thoughts?

 

[pottersclay]

Perhaps you've seen something like the following post, which I made some time back... bearing in mind what I said in an earlier post about Ezek37-39 (esp. the "dry bones" prophecy) seeming to unfold in "stages"...

Consider:

[quoting old post]


Here's how I'm seeing that.

--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity]

TO 1948ad [Nation of Israel]

= 2520y (factored in 360 day years, as "time-prophecies" relating to Israel are often factored); and



--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"]

TO 1967ad [Jerusalem Regained (apart from which, there can be no temple)]

= 2520y (ditto the above)



--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]



...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones).


--Ezekiel 4 is 430 yrs, 360 yrs of which were "remaining"; and

--[minus] 2Chronicles 36:21, "until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years [70 yrs]"; and

--[times] Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],

"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."



So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y]



I think this has to be more than "coincidence" (and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel])



____________

[caveat: I've posted before that I see Scripture referring to "the fig tree" as something DISTINCT from "Israel" (which according to Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house OF ISRAEL"... and according to the parable in Lk13:6 "[a certain man] had A FIG TREE planted IN his VINEYARD"--showing there to be two DISTINCT items, though somewhat in relation to each other, that are NOT IDENTICAL... so I'm not really convinced that "the fig tree parable" in Matt24:32-34/Mk13:28-30/Lk21:29-32 speaks specifically of "Israel," but more like something associated with Israel (which is itself identified as the "vineyard")]


[end quoting old post]


____________


Thoughts?

The fig tree is definitely Israel. Christianity came from the roots of Judaism.
Israel will become the greatest nation in the world.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Even desolate Jerusalem, the cursed Jews, have been used by God for a specific purpose for 2000 years.

When Jesus said this to "Jerusalem," do you believe He was prophesying regarding a "future" thing (especially as in connection with an OT reference also about "not see me"... till)? :

"38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The fig tree is definitely Israel.

Again, as I mentioned in my post, I believe "the/a FIG TREE" and "[a fig tree planted IN] his VINEYARD ["Israel," per Isa5:7a]" are VERY CLOSELY associated... yet in some way are not entirely identical entities, based on the way this is worded ^ (showing them to be somewhat *distinct* items... the one is said to be "PLANTED IN" the other, see).

 

[OldSage]

Can you point us to verses in Scripture using the word "tribe" or "tribes" that is speaking of anyone other than Israel (the tribes of Israel)?


I'll help you out, for starters...

--"tribe" 297x total (from what I can see)...

--"tribes" 111x


https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=tribe&version=KJV


Please point them out to us.

Thanks.





____

Perhaps you've seen something like the following post, which I made some time back... bearing in mind what I said in an earlier post about Ezek37-39 (esp. the "dry bones" prophecy) seeming to unfold in "stages"...

Consider:

[quoting old post]


Here's how I'm seeing that.

--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity]

TO 1948ad [Nation of Israel]

= 2520y (factored in 360 day years, as "time-prophecies" relating to Israel are often factored); and



--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"]

TO 1967ad [Jerusalem Regained (apart from which, there can be no temple)]

= 2520y (ditto the above)



--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]



...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones).


--Ezekiel 4 is 430 yrs, 360 yrs of which were "remaining"; and

--[minus] 2Chronicles 36:21, "until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years [70 yrs]"; and

--[times] Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],

"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."



So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y]



I think this has to be more than "coincidence" (and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel])



____________

[caveat: I've posted before that I see Scripture referring to "the fig tree" as something DISTINCT from "Israel" (which according to Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house OF ISRAEL"... and according to the parable in Lk13:6 "[a certain man] had A FIG TREE planted IN his VINEYARD"--showing there to be two DISTINCT items, though somewhat in relation to each other, that are NOT IDENTICAL... so I'm not really convinced that "the fig tree parable" in Matt24:32-34/Mk13:28-30/Lk21:29-32 speaks specifically of "Israel," but more like something associated with Israel (which is itself identified as the "vineyard")]


[end quoting old post]


____________


Thoughts?

What you say is really interesting.
I've never understood how the 430 years work.

Perhaps you've seen something like the following post, which I made some time back... bearing in mind what I said in an earlier post about Ezek37-39 (esp. the "dry bones" prophecy) seeming to unfold in "stages"...

Consider:

[quoting old post]


Here's how I'm seeing that.

--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity]

TO 1948ad [Nation of Israel]

= 2520y (factored in 360 day years, as "time-prophecies" relating to Israel are often factored); and



--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"]

TO 1967ad [Jerusalem Regained (apart from which, there can be no temple)]

= 2520y (ditto the above)



--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]



...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones).


--Ezekiel 4 is 430 yrs, 360 yrs of which were "remaining"; and

--[minus] 2Chronicles 36:21, "until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years [70 yrs]"; and

--[times] Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],

"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."



So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y]



I think this has to be more than "coincidence" (and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel])



____________

[caveat: I've posted before that I see Scripture referring to "the fig tree" as something DISTINCT from "Israel" (which according to Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house OF ISRAEL"... and according to the parable in Lk13:6 "[a certain man] had A FIG TREE planted IN his VINEYARD"--showing there to be two DISTINCT items, though somewhat in relation to each other, that are NOT IDENTICAL... so I'm not really convinced that "the fig tree parable" in Matt24:32-34/Mk13:28-30/Lk21:29-32 speaks specifically of "Israel," but more like something associated with Israel (which is itself identified as the "vineyard")]


[end quoting old post]


____________


Thoughts?

Hmmm.. This is a very interesting thing!! It's true what you point out. There is a very direct prophetic correlation!!

I've never really understood the 40 plus 390 days...

Perhaps you've seen something like the following post, which I made some time back... bearing in mind what I said in an earlier post about Ezek37-39 (esp. the "dry bones" prophecy) seeming to unfold in "stages"...

Consider:

[quoting old post]


Here's how I'm seeing that.

--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity]

TO 1948ad [Nation of Israel]

= 2520y (factored in 360 day years, as "time-prophecies" relating to Israel are often factored); and



--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"]

TO 1967ad [Jerusalem Regained (apart from which, there can be no temple)]

= 2520y (ditto the above)



--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]



...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones).


--Ezekiel 4 is 430 yrs, 360 yrs of which were "remaining"; and

--[minus] 2Chronicles 36:21, "until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years [70 yrs]"; and

--[times] Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],

"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."



So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y]



I think this has to be more than "coincidence" (and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel])



____________

[caveat: I've posted before that I see Scripture referring to "the fig tree" as something DISTINCT from "Israel" (which according to Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house OF ISRAEL"... and according to the parable in Lk13:6 "[a certain man] had A FIG TREE planted IN his VINEYARD"--showing there to be two DISTINCT items, though somewhat in relation to each other, that are NOT IDENTICAL... so I'm not really convinced that "the fig tree parable" in Matt24:32-34/Mk13:28-30/Lk21:29-32 speaks specifically of "Israel," but more like something associated with Israel (which is itself identified as the "vineyard")]


[end quoting old post]


____________


Thoughts?

This is a very interesting thing!! It's true what you point out. There is a very direct prophetic correlation!! I've never really understood the 40 plus 390 days...

 

[pottersclay]

Again, as I mentioned in my post, I believe "the/a FIG TREE" and "[a fig tree planted IN] his VINEYARD ["Israel," per Isa5:7a]" are VERY CLOSELY associated... yet in some way are not entirely identical entities, based on the way this is worded ^ (showing them to be somewhat *distinct* items... the one is said to be "PLANTED IN" the other, see).

For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, And the men of Judah are His pleasant plant. He looked for justice, but behold, oppression; For righteousness, but behold, a cry for help.

 

[OldSage]

When Jesus said this to "Jerusalem," do you believe He was prophesying regarding a "future" thing (especially as in connection with an OT reference also about "not see me"... till)? :

"38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

I don't know what Jesus meant - but it is definitely future.
I suppose he means that when apostate Israel
accepts Christians then good things will happen

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, And the men of Judah are His pleasant plant. He looked for justice, but behold, oppression; For righteousness, but behold, a cry for help.

Yes, this is fairly spot on in proximity to what I was talking about...



____________

[recall also, "Judah is my lawgiver"]

 

[Truth7t7]

The fig tree is definitely Israel. Christianity came from the roots of Judaism.
Israel will become the greatest nation in the world.

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[Truth7t7]

The fig tree is definitely Israel. Christianity came from the roots of Judaism.
Israel will become the greatest nation in the world.

Matthew 21:43KJV
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[Evmur]

No, the OP wasn't slanted at all. RS said "This is just my interpretation" and invited people to give their POV. Israel does make peace, as much as is within them. They have given up land for peace. It's the Arabs, particularly the Hamas terrorists, that do not want peace but want the Jewish people pushed into the ocean. The Arabs have been offered land at least 3 times and have turned it down. Israel sits on 1% if the land in the ME and they can't even have that as a homeland? smh This both political and spiritual. We are heading into the end times and this is where Israel takes center stage.

I agree, I believe Israel will become a great nation even before the comes ... it looks like they have had it with the Arabs and the world opinion.

What needs to be pushed into the sea is that monsterous arab temple.

 

[OldSage]

No, the OP wasn't slanted at all. RS said "This is just my interpretation" and invited people to give their POV. Israel does make peace, as much as is within them. They have given up land for peace. It's the Arabs, particularly the Hamas terrorists, that do not want peace but want the Jewish people pushed into the ocean. The Arabs have been offered land at least 3 times and have turned it down. Israel sits on 1% if the land in the ME and they can't even have that as a homeland? smh This both political and spiritual. We are heading into the end times and this is where Israel takes center stage.

Well, it is a real mess over there Kayla. I am not so interested in the politics, as already if you read Haaretz or whatever you can have 101 different political views straight off the bat. Probably the leading contender is Netanyahu avoiding jail by starting a war. And besides, you, me, we live thousands of miles away and don't probably know an awful lot about the ins and outs of it.
Personally i think this kind of question is loaded. Sometimes in an argument both sides have validity. But realistically, this is ugly as hell - citizens and children being killed left right and centre, which technically is against all international law, (and by my definition is terrorism), phosporus weapons, etc etc, so i certainly am not in a hurry to take sides without a full understanding which I do not have. [Clearly, being European and watching Islamic extremism close up here, it would be easy for me to unequivocally side with israel.]

Since I view Israel purely in terms of the Bible, and as a spiritual matter, i.e. I don't think it really makes a jot of sense to talk about Israel as a secular enterprise, the question is not what I think or who I support, but what God thinks. This at least through careful study of scripture and prayer, i may get to understand. These questions are, to me, complex, and I feel I am learning every day. Again, for lack of understanding, I prefer not to make big calls.

 

[pottersclay]

Matthew 21:43KJV
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Egypt, Assyria, and Israel Blessed In that day five cities in the land of Egypt will speak the language of Canaan and swear by the Lord of hosts; one will be called the City of Destruction. In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the Lord at its border. And it will be for a sign and for a witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they will cry to the Lord because of the oppressors, and He will send them a Savior and a Mighty One, and He will deliver them. Then the Lord will be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians will know the Lord in that day, and will make sacrifice and offering; yes, they will make a vow to the Lord and perform it. And the Lord will strike Egypt, He will strike and heal it; they will return to the Lord, and He will be entreated by them and heal them. In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian will come into Egypt and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians will serve with the Assyrians. In that day Israel will be one of three with Egypt and Assyria—a blessing in the midst of the land, whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, “Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance.”

Here my misguided friend is your thousand year reign.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Certainly. But he repented and put his faith in Jesus. Before he died.

Are you guys saying that a jew, who dies hating Jesus, will get some kind of second chance? That's what I want to know. Please try to give me the simplest answer you can.

I think that if you say "yes" then that sounds like a dual-covenant thing. If you say "no", then I fail to see how these jews are so special. How are they the "apple of God's eye" if they don't get treated any differently? What would be the point?

No second chances. Our one chance is in life.

 

[OldSage]

Certainly. But he repented and put his faith in Jesus. Before he died.

Are you guys saying that a jew, who dies hating Jesus, will get some kind of second chance? That's what I want to know. Please try to give me the simplest answer you can.

I think that if you say "yes" then that sounds like a dual-covenant thing. If you say "no", then I fail to see how these jews are so special. How are they the "apple of God's eye" if they don't get treated any differently? What would be the point?

Of course. Yes. The Jews simply have a special function.
At present they cannot see Jesus because of the veil,
just as Moses put a veil over his face so they could not
see the glory of God shining in him.
I am sure that when they see Jesus after they die they will recognize his glory and it's all good,
(unless they have done something really bad in their life which God is not going to let pass.)

Re dual covenant....yes, there are definitely several covenants in play.
The two that I think are active in this context are the Abrahamic which we are under,
and the Moabite covenant, which the Jews are under.
(The Moabite refers back to the Sinitic which points forward to the Abrahamic, which however predates the Sinitic!! Complex...lol)

 

[OldSage]

I suppose scripturally Surfer it boils down to baptisms.
The church is baptized in the Holy Spirit, Old Covenant Israel is under the baptism of fire.
jesus administers both baptisms, so all come through Jesus, one way or another.
There is no third way!!

It makes no sense for Christians to kick up about this, as the grace baptism is obviously a million times preferable to the fire baptism.

 

[CS1]

Ok. Here's what I don't get.
1. "If anyone denies Christ they will not be redeemed."
2. Jews deny Christ.
Therefore, I would suppose that jews will not be redeemed.

But......then you guys go on to talk about how all the jews will be redeemed. Soooooo...which is it? Do all these jews come back to life somehow, then become Christians, then go to heaven? Is that how this works? And what % of jew blood do they have to have in order to have this special second chance?

lol about this you without Jesus are not redeemed yet you have time to be redeemed unless you die without Christ then you're done.

Israel is a nation as God said it would come back Isreal has the opportunity to accept Jesus at any time just as you and I when a jew dies without Jesus they are done. Yet they can if living can return to God through Jesus.

Bible Prophecy Israel the people who are living when the Antichrist takes over will have their eyes open and reject the devil. But they will accept him at first.

 

[surfer14]

No second chances. Our one chance is in life.

Thank you, roughsoul, for this clear answer!

...
I am sure that when they see Jesus after they die they will recognize his glory and it's all good,
(unless they have done something really bad in their life which God is not going to let pass.)

LOL....Just when I thought I was clear on what you guys think, then you throw this in there! hahaha!

At this point I'm not trying to convince anyone here of anything. All I want is to have some clarity as to what the various schools ot thought believe.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I don't know what Jesus meant - but it is definitely future.
I suppose he means that when apostate Israel
accepts Christians then good things will happen

For if their rejection brings reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?
-Romans 11:15