Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
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And I have told you several times that I am a Southern Baptist but you still just called me a "MORMON"!
From your own posts, YOU promote speaking in tongues......expecting signs and wonders....faith healings .....women pastors.
You can CLAIM what YOU are not, but your own words convict you of what you actually are.
From your own posts, YOU promote speaking in tongues......expecting signs and wonders....faith healings .....women pastors.
You can CLAIM what YOU are not, but your own words convict you of what you actually are.
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I have to admit I am not impressed with your interpretation of scripiture. In the New Testament Church women were never Elders.
I don't talk about pastors because pastors were not in leadership of the church either. The scriptures clearly state the ledership comprised of Apostles, Prophets and Elders. No mention of pastors anywhere.
Pastors were the outworking of the reformation where they took over from the catholic priest and the communion was a protestant version of the eucharist.
I don't talk about pastors because pastors were not in leadership of the church either. The scriptures clearly state the ledership comprised of Apostles, Prophets and Elders. No mention of pastors anywhere.
Pastors were the outworking of the reformation where they took over from the catholic priest and the communion was a protestant version of the eucharist.
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The word (Pastor) would be seen comparable to (Bishop) and yes this (Bishop) has the duty of being in (Leadership) taking care of the Church
Just curious, do you follow the teachings of (Watchman Nee) in the Local Church?
1 Timothy 3:1-5KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Just curious, do you follow the teachings of (Watchman Nee) in the Local Church?
1 Timothy 3:1-5KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Women aren't to participate in taking the pulpit in the general Church meetings, they are to remain silent
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
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The question is what you understand about ,,participation in ministry,, Why there is no example in the NT that a woman was leading/pastoring a church. You find examples that a church gathered in a sisters house. But no word that she was the leader/ pastor of this housechurch.
So thats no opposing the Holy Spirit. Thats what the Holy Spirit teaches. Ore would you say the letters of Paul are not inspired from the Holy Spirit?
So thats no opposing the Holy Spirit. Thats what the Holy Spirit teaches. Ore would you say the letters of Paul are not inspired from the Holy Spirit?
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Yes but back in the real world there is a woman i know who chooses to parade up and down the city centre on her own calling people to Jesus and repentance. She means business and if it sounds like i'm describing a formidable person then i am. All the other Christian preachers know her and consider her a bit feisty and bolder than they are pretty much
all this talk about pulpits seems ridiculous in the face of the real world, so can she preach or not out on the streets? but if she's placed in another setting with a pulpit in front of her it's wrong, but if she's out on the streets it's ok?
she's a one man band, no support from anyone not as if she can defer to a guy, there is no guy!
so reading this thread makes me feel like i'm taking crazy pills its got nothing to do with the world that i live in
all this talk about pulpits seems ridiculous in the face of the real world, so can she preach or not out on the streets? but if she's placed in another setting with a pulpit in front of her it's wrong, but if she's out on the streets it's ok?
she's a one man band, no support from anyone not as if she can defer to a guy, there is no guy!
so reading this thread makes me feel like i'm taking crazy pills its got nothing to do with the world that i live in
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Most of the posts here are like that.
Writers seldom post according to the real world or the Bible. They just vomit their opinion.
In a sea of insanity, the sane man feels out of place. Be comforted in the knowledge that you aren't alone.
The nuts will continue to fester and their opinions will be swept away like leaves in the fall.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Writers seldom post according to the real world or the Bible. They just vomit their opinion.
In a sea of insanity, the sane man feels out of place. Be comforted in the knowledge that you aren't alone.
The nuts will continue to fester and their opinions will be swept away like leaves in the fall.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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2 Timothy 4:1-2KJV
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
Mark 16:15-20KJV
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
Mark 16:15-20KJV
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
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You are incorrect!
That is what your Pentecostal denomination has told you but the Bible does not say that.
This doctrine YOU are promoting is known as being baptized in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. But is speaking in tongues evidence of the Holy Spirit?
My dear friend......READ THE BOOK!!!
Mark 16:17-18
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall
I want you to take note of something. Many people...YOU-- claim this passage proves that the sign of tongues MUST follow EVERYONE who believes. But look at the passage again. It also includes casting out devils, taking up serpents, not being hurt by deadly drink and the healing of the sick.
The question I would like to ask is why do some people focus on tongues as the single evidence of the Holy Ghost when the rest of these things are not mentioned as such?
It should not be too hard to understand that when Jesus said “them that believe” He was speaking of a group. Thus, the GROUP would do all of these things, but not necessarily each individual. So this passage can not be used for the claim that speaking in tongues is evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. That group was the APOSTLES that was standing in front of Jesus when He said those words.
That is what your Pentecostal denomination has told you but the Bible does not say that.
This doctrine YOU are promoting is known as being baptized in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. But is speaking in tongues evidence of the Holy Spirit?
My dear friend......READ THE BOOK!!!
Mark 16:17-18
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall
I want you to take note of something. Many people...YOU-- claim this passage proves that the sign of tongues MUST follow EVERYONE who believes. But look at the passage again. It also includes casting out devils, taking up serpents, not being hurt by deadly drink and the healing of the sick.
The question I would like to ask is why do some people focus on tongues as the single evidence of the Holy Ghost when the rest of these things are not mentioned as such?
It should not be too hard to understand that when Jesus said “them that believe” He was speaking of a group. Thus, the GROUP would do all of these things, but not necessarily each individual. So this passage can not be used for the claim that speaking in tongues is evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. That group was the APOSTLES that was standing in front of Jesus when He said those words.
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I do not say that tongues is the biblical proof, POWER is the biblical proof. C. H. Spurgeon had power, he mourned the fact that so few of his generation did. Not everyone is baptized in the Holy Ghost and power.
It is nonsense to suggest that only the apostles spake with other tongues or did miracles. Corinthians shows that these gifts were distributed among the assembly.
Don't you want to speak with other tongues? why would you not want to speak with other tongues? The Holy Spirit wishes that ye did all speak with other tongues ... why is it such an issue?
It is nonsense to suggest that only the apostles spake with other tongues or did miracles. Corinthians shows that these gifts were distributed among the assembly.
Don't you want to speak with other tongues? why would you not want to speak with other tongues? The Holy Spirit wishes that ye did all speak with other tongues ... why is it such an issue?
It is true that those women at whose house the church met are not specifically said to be leaders of the work ... I think they were, Paul desired that they should stop quarrelling one with another. We see at Thessalonica that it was the honourable women of that place took the lead in promoting the work. Prisca worked with her husband in teaching the way more perfectly.
But you cant build up teachings on the fundation of assumptions. Thas Prisca workerd together with Aquila says not that she led a church ore Was leader/ pastor of a church.
That woman were quarrelling with one another says not that they were the leader/ pastor of the corinthian church.
For a teaching you need a scriptual base, but this is not given in the case of the OP question.
That woman were quarrelling with one another says not that they were the leader/ pastor of the corinthian church.
For a teaching you need a scriptual base, but this is not given in the case of the OP question.
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I am sure that you are a well meaning and thoughtful Christian man. I can only say that I wish your opinions were founded more in the Scriptures than from your mind.
#1.
The Bible says that every single born again person is filled with the Holy Ghost at the moment he is saved.
1 Corth 12:13.......
"For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit".
Ephesians 1:13....
"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit".
#2.
Mark 16:14-18 1.......
"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Were YOU standing there in front of Jesus?????
Are YOU one of the ELEVEN????
Are YOU an Apostle?????
My dear brother.....READ the word of Mark 16. THE APOSTLES were the ones given the sign gifts not YOU or me.
#3.
Incorrect. The letter to the Corinthian church was a letter of CORRECTION because then just has now they did not properly use those gifts that were given to the Apostles.
Undoubtedly people can be led astray from the truth if they allow their own thoughts and emotions and evil spiritual influences to dictate their beliefs, rather than God’s precious word. Though these modern “tongues-speakers” may be sincere, they are sincerely deceived.
#4.
NO!
THe tongues spoken today do not come from God. They are counterfeit.
From my experiences and observations.....
Often, the so-called “tongues experience” occurs at an intense, emotionally charged religious revival called a “tarry meeting,” where the “spirit” is said to be “called down” or “worked up.” Generally such “working up” consists of frenetic repeating of certain phrases like “Glory, hallelujah!” or “Sweet Jesus!” With jazzy hymn-singing and the rhythmic, ecstatic chant of these repetitious utterances, the congregation is gradually whipped into an emotional frenzy.
Suddenly one or two or more in the group are “overcome with the spirit” and begin shouting gibberish. Usually this includes waving of the arms, jumping around, shouting or even writhing on the floor. One or another of the congregation may rise to “interpret” what a speaker is saying, usually attributing to the person great praises for God and other spiritual insights.
The Bible, and the Bible alone, is the true litmus test. God’s word is the standard by which we should judge all things.
John 17:17.....
. “And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them”.
Isaiah 8:19-20.....
. The “law” and “the testimony” are the Old and New Testaments—the Bible!
Those who search for deeper spiritual experiences by trying to “call down another Pentecost” or “work up the spirit” in their tarry meetings today are simply deceived by Satan.
Remember..........YOU ASKED!
#1.
The Bible says that every single born again person is filled with the Holy Ghost at the moment he is saved.
1 Corth 12:13.......
"For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit".
Ephesians 1:13....
"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit".
#2.
Mark 16:14-18 1.......
"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Were YOU standing there in front of Jesus?????
Are YOU one of the ELEVEN????
Are YOU an Apostle?????
My dear brother.....READ the word of Mark 16. THE APOSTLES were the ones given the sign gifts not YOU or me.
#3.
Incorrect. The letter to the Corinthian church was a letter of CORRECTION because then just has now they did not properly use those gifts that were given to the Apostles.
Undoubtedly people can be led astray from the truth if they allow their own thoughts and emotions and evil spiritual influences to dictate their beliefs, rather than God’s precious word. Though these modern “tongues-speakers” may be sincere, they are sincerely deceived.
#4.
NO!
THe tongues spoken today do not come from God. They are counterfeit.
From my experiences and observations.....
Often, the so-called “tongues experience” occurs at an intense, emotionally charged religious revival called a “tarry meeting,” where the “spirit” is said to be “called down” or “worked up.” Generally such “working up” consists of frenetic repeating of certain phrases like “Glory, hallelujah!” or “Sweet Jesus!” With jazzy hymn-singing and the rhythmic, ecstatic chant of these repetitious utterances, the congregation is gradually whipped into an emotional frenzy.
Suddenly one or two or more in the group are “overcome with the spirit” and begin shouting gibberish. Usually this includes waving of the arms, jumping around, shouting or even writhing on the floor. One or another of the congregation may rise to “interpret” what a speaker is saying, usually attributing to the person great praises for God and other spiritual insights.
The Bible, and the Bible alone, is the true litmus test. God’s word is the standard by which we should judge all things.
John 17:17.....
. “And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them”.
Isaiah 8:19-20.....
. The “law” and “the testimony” are the Old and New Testaments—the Bible!
Those who search for deeper spiritual experiences by trying to “call down another Pentecost” or “work up the spirit” in their tarry meetings today are simply deceived by Satan.
Remember..........YOU ASKED!
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There is absolulty nothing wrong with what you described this person is doing.
She is sharing the gospel....getting people saved just as she should.
BUT that is not the same as being in a position of authority in a church responsible for the people in that church.
That woman can talk and preach and walk all she wants to and may God bless her. But that does not qualify her as a HUSBAND on ONE WIFE in order to be a Pastor.
She is sharing the gospel....getting people saved just as she should.
BUT that is not the same as being in a position of authority in a church responsible for the people in that church.
That woman can talk and preach and walk all she wants to and may God bless her. But that does not qualify her as a HUSBAND on ONE WIFE in order to be a Pastor.
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Let's have a look at this
There is no argument from me that all who are born again have received the Holy Spirit ... but that is not the same as being baptised in Him as we see in Samaria. Jesus said "out of your belly shall flow rivers of living water" or what need would Paul have of urging the church to be filled every day with the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit can be quenched and He can be grieved. If churches turn to another gospel Christ is of no avail to them, they fall away from grace ... they are still saved but they are as Paul says carnal christians.
There were those who Paul says he could not treat as spiritual for they were carnal.
So even if christians receive the Holy Spirit when they are saved many [perhaps most] do not go on with Him but fall back to mere church attendance and good manners. The fault is the leadership and the structures of the various denominations.
The Holy Spirit will not be led by men.
"These signs shall follow those who BELIEVE" Stephen BELIEVED and God did great signs and miracles by his hand ... he was not one of the eleven.
Yes Corinthians was a letter of correction in the correct use of the gifts ... so there is a correct use and an incorrect use of the gifts. Never-the-less the gifts were to be operated by the individual members of the assembly. One will prophesy, one will work miracles, one will [or 2 - 3 ] will speak in other tongues while another has the ability to interpret, Same Spirit.
We are not to go by your experiences we are to go by the bible. I was saved and baptised in the Holy Spirit in my own home.
God will give you what you believe Him for in accordance with His promise. If you do not so much as hear about the gift of the Holy Spirit you prolly won't get it. It's according to the fulness of the gospel you heard when you first believed. What we all ought to make certain of is "does what I received match up to what they received in the bible" I put it to you that in many cases it does not.
The Holy Spirit is nothing to do with human emotions, zippo
Even if we speak of Joy or peace it is not human joy or human peace, it is an overflowing joy and a peace which passeth all understanding. The love we receive is love poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. These things constitute what ought to be the normal christian experience.
We can see that men like John and Charles Wesley or Whitefield or Bunyan or Spurgeon or Corrie ten Boom experienced these things ... how few do relatively ... but it is for EVERYONE.
As you say the bible is the litmus test ... let us be SURE what we have is what they had in the bible.
I think it is impossible to feign speaking a foreign language. it will just be gibberish "bananamanana" but to speak a language with rhythm and cadences and enunciation is as far as I know impossible. If some are satisfied with gibberish that is up to them.
I want bible tongues and interpretation.
There is no argument from me that all who are born again have received the Holy Spirit ... but that is not the same as being baptised in Him as we see in Samaria. Jesus said "out of your belly shall flow rivers of living water" or what need would Paul have of urging the church to be filled every day with the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit can be quenched and He can be grieved. If churches turn to another gospel Christ is of no avail to them, they fall away from grace ... they are still saved but they are as Paul says carnal christians.
There were those who Paul says he could not treat as spiritual for they were carnal.
So even if christians receive the Holy Spirit when they are saved many [perhaps most] do not go on with Him but fall back to mere church attendance and good manners. The fault is the leadership and the structures of the various denominations.
The Holy Spirit will not be led by men.
"These signs shall follow those who BELIEVE" Stephen BELIEVED and God did great signs and miracles by his hand ... he was not one of the eleven.
Yes Corinthians was a letter of correction in the correct use of the gifts ... so there is a correct use and an incorrect use of the gifts. Never-the-less the gifts were to be operated by the individual members of the assembly. One will prophesy, one will work miracles, one will [or 2 - 3 ] will speak in other tongues while another has the ability to interpret, Same Spirit.
We are not to go by your experiences we are to go by the bible. I was saved and baptised in the Holy Spirit in my own home.
God will give you what you believe Him for in accordance with His promise. If you do not so much as hear about the gift of the Holy Spirit you prolly won't get it. It's according to the fulness of the gospel you heard when you first believed. What we all ought to make certain of is "does what I received match up to what they received in the bible" I put it to you that in many cases it does not.
The Holy Spirit is nothing to do with human emotions, zippo
Even if we speak of Joy or peace it is not human joy or human peace, it is an overflowing joy and a peace which passeth all understanding. The love we receive is love poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. These things constitute what ought to be the normal christian experience.
We can see that men like John and Charles Wesley or Whitefield or Bunyan or Spurgeon or Corrie ten Boom experienced these things ... how few do relatively ... but it is for EVERYONE.
As you say the bible is the litmus test ... let us be SURE what we have is what they had in the bible.
I think it is impossible to feign speaking a foreign language. it will just be gibberish "bananamanana" but to speak a language with rhythm and cadences and enunciation is as far as I know impossible. If some are satisfied with gibberish that is up to them.
I want bible tongues and interpretation.