The banishment of Adam and Eve

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,841
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#41
Eden was strictly for Adam and Eve. All other creatures were outside.
How then did Adam name all the animals? :unsure:

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and He brought them to the man to see what he would name each one. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#42
If God is the same yesterday and today and forever, why is He so different throughout scripture? One week He’s speaking existence into completion then takes a six thousand year vacation from creating? Believe every word literally and insult me as you see fit. I don’t know what the point of praying for wisdom is if everything is plainly translated in English for all to unquestioningly accept?
I never told you to pray for wisdom. At this point, if I were you, I'd come before God as a sinner in desperate need of a Savior and ask for forgiveness of your (metaphorical?) sinfulness.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#43
I wasn't aware of that. That's a doctrine I haven't learned yet.
It is not stated explicitly, but implied in the following Scriptures (Gen 2:8,9,15):
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil... And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

From this we may conclude that Eden was reserved for Adam and Eve and their progeny. Adam was made steward of Eden (also called Paradise elsewhere). In contrast, the other creatures are called "the beasts of the field, and the fowls of the air" (v 19): And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air... The Hebrew word for field is sadeh [saw-deh] and according to Brown-Driver-Briggs it means "home of wild beasts: ׳בְּהֵמוֺת שׂ Psalm 8:8; Joel 2:22, ׳חַיְתוֺ שׂ Isaiah 56:9; Psalm 104:11, ׳זִזִ שׂ Psalm 50:11; Psalm 80:14."

So all the other creatures were outside Eden in their own habitat ("the field"), but man was given a privileged position in Eden, since God made man in His own image, and in His own likeness, and had fellowship with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. The Bible even says that God "planted" this garden/orchard for man, which is an amazing thought. As we see in chapter one, God simply spoke the vegetable kingdom into existence. But here it says He planted an orchard.

We should also note that in chapter 1 God is Elohim (the triune Godhead). But in chapter 2 He is "the LORD God" (Yahweh Elohim) which speaks of a relationship between God and Man. Jesus is the LORD God, since He is the Creator (John 1:1-3).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
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#44
How then did Adam name all the animals? :unsure:
Imagine if you will that God creates Adam, then plants the garden of Eden for him. After that He brings Adam outside and causes all the other creatures (which were all created before Adam according to chapter 1) to pass by Adam while he names them.

God knows all along that none of these creatures would be a suitable companion and helper for Adam. So He brings him back into Eden, causes him to fall into a deep sleep, creates Eve out of his rib, and then presents her to Adam as his wife.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,385
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#46
So you do not believe that they are not related to one another even though both are the truth?
I believe they are related by the truth.
You are certainly free to believe whatever you like, but until you show how your statement is relevant to the thread topic, you're just spinning your wheels.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,385
13,735
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#47
It is not stated explicitly, but implied in the following Scriptures (Gen 2:8,9,15):
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil... And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

From this we may conclude that Eden was reserved for Adam and Eve and their progeny. Adam was made steward of Eden (also called Paradise elsewhere). In contrast, the other creatures are called "the beasts of the field, and the fowls of the air" (v 19): And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air... The Hebrew word for field is sadeh [saw-deh] and according to Brown-Driver-Briggs it means "home of wild beasts: ׳בְּהֵמוֺת שׂ Psalm 8:8; Joel 2:22, ׳חַיְתוֺ שׂ Isaiah 56:9; Psalm 104:11, ׳זִזִ שׂ Psalm 50:11; Psalm 80:14."

So all the other creatures were outside Eden in their own habitat ("the field"), but man was given a privileged position in Eden, since God made man in His own image, and in His own likeness, and had fellowship with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. The Bible even says that God "planted" this garden/orchard for man, which is an amazing thought. As we see in chapter one, God simply spoke the vegetable kingdom into existence. But here it says He planted an orchard.

We should also note that in chapter 1 God is Elohim (the triune Godhead). But in chapter 2 He is "the LORD God" (Yahweh Elohim) which speaks of a relationship between God and Man. Jesus is the LORD God, since He is the Creator (John 1:1-3).
This might make sense if the "serpent" were a mere earthly creature. There is good evidence that it wasn't. Neither Eve nor Adam showed any alarm at its presence or its ability to speak with them.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,385
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#48
So you do not believe that they are not related to one another even though both are the truth?
I believe they are related by the truth.
Relevant: bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand; pertinent (Dictionary.com)

Two things may be distantly related in the fact that they are both "truth", but neither is relevant to the other.

For example, My Dad drove a green car when I was a teenager. The chair on my deck is white. Both statements are true, but they are unrelated; neither has any bearing on the other.

Similarly, your statement is not pertinent to the discussion at hand. The fact that I can stop sinning because of Jesus has no bearing on the fact that or reason(s) why Adam and Eve were evicted from the garden of Eden.

So, would you like to try again, or would you prefer to concede the point?
 
0

0000000

Guest
#49
Relevant: bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand; pertinent (Dictionary.com)

Two things may be distantly related in the fact that they are both "truth", but neither is relevant to the other.

For example, My Dad drove a green car when I was a teenager. The chair on my deck is white. Both statements are true, but they are unrelated; neither has any bearing on the other.

Similarly, your statement is not pertinent to the discussion at hand. The fact that I can stop sinning because of Jesus has no bearing on the fact that or reason(s) why Adam and Eve were evicted from the garden of Eden.

So, would you like to try again, or would you prefer to concede the point?
I thank you for the offer but I am going to wait upon the Lord to judge it.
 
0

0000000

Guest
#50
You are certainly free to believe whatever you like, but until you show how your statement is relevant to the thread topic, you're just spinning your wheels.
Nah, I have to disagree with you, again.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,385
13,735
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#51
I thank you for the offer but I am going to wait upon the Lord to judge it.
Dude, that's ridiculous. How do you propose to have a rational discussion about anything if you don't make comments that are relevant to the topic?

By the way, I'm curious to which "Lord" you're referring, as your profile doesn't say, "Christian".
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#52
I never told you to pray for wisdom. At this point, if I were you, I'd come before God as a sinner in desperate need of a Savior and ask for forgiveness of your (metaphorical?) sinfulness.
Wow, I didn’t realize we were all waiting for your permission to pray and guidance to know what to pray for. We are all blessed that you have lowered yourself to enlighten us lost and lowly sinners. If metaphor is sinful then Christ Himself is not good enough for your high standards. Does it even seem remotely logical that God all knowing and powerful would set man up like that? In what universe does it make sense to plant a garden just to set Adam up then punish all of humanity, just so He could sacrifice His own Son to give them the choice to either believe in Him or face eternal damnation? Either He loves us enough to save us and the story in Genesis is incomplete or He hated us from the beginning.

I’m sure you will now offer me unsolicited advice about what blasphemies you think I need forgiveness for.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#53
By the way, I'm curious to which "Lord" you're referring, as your profile doesn't say, "Christian".
Jesus Is The Lord

1 Corinthians 12:3KJV
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#54
Wow, I didn’t realize we were all waiting for your permission to pray and guidance to know what to pray for. We are all blessed that you have lowered yourself to enlighten us lost and lowly sinners. If metaphor is sinful then Christ Himself is not good enough for your high standards.

I’m sure you will now offer me unsolicited advice about what blasphemies you think I need forgiveness for.
My 'praying for wisdom comment' was in response to your 'wisdom' comment in post #38.
Scripture uses metaphor but not in Gen 3, otherwise Paul wouldn't be establishing doctrine on a metaphor, he might use a metaphor to illustrate a point as he did in Galatians with Hagar.
Does it even seem remotely logical that God all knowing and powerful would set man up like that? In what universe does it make sense to plant a garden just to set Adam up then punish all of humanity, just so He could sacrifice His own Son to give them the choice to either believe in Him or face eternal damnation? Either He loves us enough to save us and the story in Genesis is incomplete or He hated us from the beginning.
Again, you are setting up man's (fallen) reason over God's revelation and you are the one who ends up standing as Judge over God. I didn't realize you were that Almighty. Maybe we need your 'permission to pray, and guidance to know' how you created the universe?

Where do your metaphors end? Only when the narrative fits your 'logic'?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,767
13,525
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#55
If God is the same yesterday and today and forever, why is He so different throughout scripture?
if i think God is different throughout scripture then i either do not understand or do not believe what i'm reading -- because i get the fact that He is the same yesterday, today and forever from scripture.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#56
Two punishments were given out by God for disobeying Him: 1.) They were cursed. 2.) They were banished from the Garden of Eden.
In Agreement that two punishments were given ...

However, as has been pointed out, what was cursed was the serpent (aka satan) - Gen 3:14 and the ground - Gen 3:17. God did not curse Adam and Eve.

The punishment for having eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was that they died: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die - Gen 2:17. Additionally, they were sent forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence [Adam] was taken - Gen 3:23-24.



 
Nov 26, 2012
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#58
My 'praying for wisdom comment' was in response to your 'wisdom' comment in post #38.
Scripture uses metaphor but not in Gen 3, otherwise Paul wouldn't be establishing doctrine on a metaphor, he might use a metaphor to illustrate a point as he did in Galatians with Hagar.


Again, you are setting up man's (fallen) reason over God's revelation and you are the one who ends up standing as Judge over God. I didn't realize you were that Almighty. Maybe we need your 'permission to pray, and guidance to know' how you created the universe?

Where do your metaphors end? Only when the narrative fits your 'logic'?
It is not my logic. It is a story. Read it again. Not once does it say the snake was Satan. It claims the snake was subtle/craftiest over all other beasts of the field. Snakes, something they dealt with in the desert. They bit their heals and they crushed snakes’ heads, like it said. Man assumed that was prophetic. Food from trees, something they could relate to. I’m just reading the story like it was delivered. You can believe in talking snakes and miraculous forbidden fruit all you want. Christ barely taught a lesson without a parable. It’s all about relatability. If the Bible was every bit as obvious as you claim then there would be no debates it. Casting insults is childish. I don’t assume you love the Lord less than I do because you don’t agree with me. We are all supposed to be one Body. Trees and fruit reminds me of another metaphor used by Christ. I am His, even if we disagree on my interpretation. I don’t doubt you are. Blessings, back to the garden...the real garden. It’s the nicest day this spring where I’m at.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,767
13,525
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#59
It is not stated explicitly, but implied in the following Scriptures (Gen 2:8,9,15):
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil... And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
i don't see the idea that the garden was vacant being implied by this.
if i take you to Disneyworld it is not implied that Disneyworld is entirely unpopulated apart from you.


by the absence of of anyone ever telling Satan he was trespassing, i do not assume that no one said this because everyone was stupid. i rather think that idea being completely absent from the narrative kind of implies that he wasn't trespassing. i mean if you're saying Adam sinned first by not throwing him out, then you're contradicting scripture where it's written that the Woman was first in transgression, and you're also implying God is in error for not throwing him out, Himself.
 
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