Christians and the Law

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Gideon300

Well-known member
#1
Mar 18, 2021
5,441
3,222
113
#1
There is still a great deal of misunderstanding about the Law of Moses and how it relates to the Christian. I think that the debate misses one crucial point. The real question, is how do we live in a way that pleases God? Israel tried and failed. I know of no Christian, even the elite of the elite, who has met God's standard of perfection. No one can claim to have fulfilled the first commandment fully and faithfully at all times.

Lord Jesus gave a commentary on the Law in what we call the Sermon on the mount. He revealed God's ways are higher even than the Law of Moses - which we fail to keep anyway. So how do we respond to the impossible demands of God's righteous nature and holy character?

Christians respond in a number of ways, often at different stages in their Christian lives. These responses include:

1. Give up. It's all too hard and demanding. God expects to much of me and I quit.
2. Pretend. Try as hard as possible and present a false picture to other Christians.
3. Study the scriptures diligently and become a walking, talking bible. Ensure that you are critical of lesser mortals, in order to divert attention from your own shortcomings.
4. Become a hermit, avoiding any temptation and any criticism from other Christians.
5. Discover who you are in Christ. Discover that Lord Jesus lives in you to be all that God requires you to be. Discover that Lord Jesus is your righteousness before God, even if you know that you are still sinful. Discover that you died with Christ and rose from the dead with Him. Discover that Lord Jesus is able to cause you to be all that God requires you to be. Discover that God's expectations of you are zero. Discover that Christ is your life now.

It's a combination of ignorance and pride that hinders Christians. Ignorance prevents people from knowing what God has done for us in Christ. Pride refuses to admit that there is nothing in us that can please God. We need to start at the cross. There we die. We need to go on to the resurrection. There we are born again.

I was born in England. I've lived in Australia since 1967. I'm still English. I've never become a citizen. People can be born into a Christian family, go to church all their lives yet never become a citizen of heaven. You can learn the language, adopt the culture and the local accent, yet still be a foreigner. Many "Christians" are not yet citizens of heaven because they've not been born again. Peter exhorts us to examine ourselves and ensure that we are in the faith. It is not that we live in doubt and unbelief. We just need to be sure that we are indeed born again. That is an issue for a different post.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#2
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#2
The law makes us aware that all people are in need of God's mercy and when we understand this truth, we should desire his mercy for all people,
 
I

Iamabeliever

Banned
#3
Oct 10, 2020
107
36
28
#3
Gideon300 said:
There is still a great deal of misunderstanding about the Law of Moses and how it relates to the Christian. I think that the debate misses one crucial point. The real question, is how do we live in a way that pleases God? Israel tried and failed. I know of no Christian, even the elite of the elite, who has met God's standard of perfection. No one can claim to have fulfilled the first commandment fully and faithfully at all times.

Lord Jesus gave a commentary on the Law in what we call the Sermon on the mount. He revealed God's ways are higher even than the Law of Moses - which we fail to keep anyway. So how do we respond to the impossible demands of God's righteous nature and holy character?

Christians respond in a number of ways, often at different stages in their Christian lives. These responses include:

1. Give up. It's all too hard and demanding. God expects to much of me and I quit.
2. Pretend. Try as hard as possible and present a false picture to other Christians.
3. Study the scriptures diligently and become a walking, talking bible. Ensure that you are critical of lesser mortals, in order to divert attention from your own shortcomings.
4. Become a hermit, avoiding any temptation and any criticism from other Christians.
5. Discover who you are in Christ. Discover that Lord Jesus lives in you to be all that God requires you to be. Discover that Lord Jesus is your righteousness before God, even if you know that you are still sinful. Discover that you died with Christ and rose from the dead with Him. Discover that Lord Jesus is able to cause you to be all that God requires you to be. Discover that God's expectations of you are zero. Discover that Christ is your life now.

It's a combination of ignorance and pride that hinders Christians. Ignorance prevents people from knowing what God has done for us in Christ. Pride refuses to admit that there is nothing in us that can please God. We need to start at the cross. There we die. We need to go on to the resurrection. There we are born again.

I was born in England. I've lived in Australia since 1967. I'm still English. I've never become a citizen. People can be born into a Christian family, go to church all their lives yet never become a citizen of heaven. You can learn the language, adopt the culture and the local accent, yet still be a foreigner. Many "Christians" are not yet citizens of heaven because they've not been born again. Peter exhorts us to examine ourselves and ensure that we are in the faith. It is not that we live in doubt and unbelief. We just need to be sure that we are indeed born again. That is an issue for a different post.
Click to expand...
Jesus Chist is the only way to heaven Period full stop
 
DeanM

DeanM

Well-known member
#4
May 4, 2021
549
315
63
#4
Christ fullfilled Mosaic law. We are under the New Covenant. Mosaic law pointed out sin and the need of a savior as nobody could keep the law without the Messiah.
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#5
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#5
The Old Testament should be seen as more or less just history and prophesy (and occasional bits of fatherly advice, such as in Proverbs). The New Testament is about the new covenant and the Law of Christ. The first two commandments of the covenant are: 1) love God with all of your strength, mind, and soul, and 2) love your neighbour as yourself. (Mark 12:30-31). The New Testament has everything you need.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#6
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#6
The Gospel of Jesus- Yeshua was first given to Abraham. Abraham prophesied the Lamb of God when he was in the process of sacrificing Isaac. I believe this is in Genesis 22.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#7
Dec 9, 2011
14,144
1,806
113
#7
How does the law of Moses relate to the Christian? Answer=The law Is a school master.

Paul wrote that he delighted In the law of GOD after the Inward man,talking about a persons mind but he wrote,I see another law warring against the law of my mind and bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In my flesh.

Because of the weakness of the flesh a person could not stop sinning and eventually a person thinking that GOD Is judging them by all the sins they commit will eventually give up and just say GOD I just can't live up to your standard of righteousness.

But GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship him MUST worship HIM In Spirit and In truth that's why JESUS having mercy died for us on a cross satisfying the demand of the law which meant death for anyone breaking the law.

All the prophets and the law are summed up In one word,LOVE.

No longer did man have to do the ten commandments which they could not do anyway acceptable to GOD because of the weakness of the flesh but now faith would be the Issue Grace through faith.

Sidenote:The Spirit Is willing but the flesh Is weak.
 
DeanM

DeanM

Well-known member
#8
May 4, 2021
549
315
63
#8
JaumeJ said:
The Gospel of Jesus- Yeshua was first given to Abraham. Abraham prophesied the Lamb of God when he was in the process of sacrificing Isaac. I believe this is in Genesis 22.
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Jacob and especially Joseph, with his prophetc dreams, were "types of Christ" as far as pointing to the Messiah.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#9
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#9
DeanM said:
Jacob and especially Joseph, with his prophetc dreams, were "types of Christ" as far as pointing to the Messiah.
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It would prove true if delved into that all who believve Jesus-Yeshua are "types of Christ." We do follow His Example as best we are given to do.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#10
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#10
Jocund said:
The Old Testament should be seen as more or less just history and prophesy (and occasional bits of fatherly advice, such as in Proverbs). The New Testament is about the new covenant and the Law of Christ. The first two commandments of the covenant are: 1) love God with all of your strength, mind, and soul, and 2) love your neighbour as yourself. (Mark 12:30-31). The New Testament has everything you need.
Click to expand...
The Old Testament is God's holy inerrant word, same as the New Testament. I see no reason to discount the OT as "history, prophesy and fatherly advice." It teaches important doctrine beyond history, prophesy and fatherly advice.
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#11
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#11
OrphanedRepublican said:
The Old Testament is God's holy inerrant word, same as the New Testament. I see no reason to discount the OT as "history, prophesy and fatherly advice." It teaches important doctrine beyond history, prophesy and fatherly advice.
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The covenant rules of the Old Testament were fulfilled through Christ. Personally partaking of OT rules is permitted, but does not lead to salvation. There are important differences between OT rules and NT rules even if they seem very similar. The NT is the source of the Christian covenant.

Some Christian denominations adopt OT doctrine. It's OK to do that, but it isn't a scriptural requirement.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#12
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#12
Gideon300 said:
There is still a great deal of misunderstanding about the Law of Moses and how it relates to the Christian. I think that the debate misses one crucial point. The real question, is how do we live in a way that pleases God? Israel tried and failed. I know of no Christian, even the elite of the elite, who has met God's standard of perfection. No one can claim to have fulfilled the first commandment fully and faithfully at all times.
Click to expand...
I think there are many Christians who live in a way pleasing to the Lord and who meet the Lord's standards. I don't mean that they live in a way that obeys every law, but the standard of the Lord is to live in a state of repentance and love for God and man.

People who submit to the Holy Spirit within them do just that and are wiped clean of their every sin.

Christ asks us to be perfect, and Christ knew forgiveness was necessary to reach that perfection. We cannot willfully sin and be perfect, but we can repent of sin and be perfect through Christ.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#13
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#13
Jocund said:
The covenant rules of the Old Testament were fulfilled through Christ. Personally partaking of OT rules is permitted, but does not lead to salvation. There are important differences between OT rules and NT rules even if they seem very similar. The NT is the source of the Christian covenant.

Some Christian denominations adopt OT doctrine. It's OK to do that, but it isn't a scriptural requirement.
Click to expand...
The law isn't just Mosaic laws, it's every written word spoken to man by God.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Psalm 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#14
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#14
OrphanedRepublican said:
The law isn't just Mosaic laws, it's every written word spoken to man by God.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Psalm 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
Click to expand...
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." - Romans 10:4
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#16
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#16
OrphanedRepublican said:
Your cited verse is referring to the Mosaic law.
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Yes, the law is fulfilled through Christ.

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." - Matthew 5:16-22

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." - 1 Corinthians 10:23

It might be more helpful to look at examples and show how the OT and NT addresses it. You will see the relevant answer in the NT.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#17
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#17
Jocund said:
Yes, the law is fulfilled through Christ.

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." - Matthew 5:16-22

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." - 1 Corinthians 10:23

It might be more helpful to look at examples and show how the OT and NT addresses it. You will see the relevant answer in the NT.
Click to expand...
I think you just misunderstand my point to the original poster of this thread.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#20
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#20
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 
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