Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

[Shemuel-Yerimiyahu]

I don't know why people put their personal agendas into scripture and then state it as fact.

Its not a fact. Its a wish. Its an inference not based on fact but on will.

We all want to fill in the blanks that are not described or not listed as fact but to do so in our own imagination and then state that imagination as biblical fact is just wrong.

I think that's why we have such strong discussions sometimes.

I have no agendas if you are referring to me here. I only wish to share truth and peace, and gain wisdom along the way. Which I’m sure is your aim also. I’m sure your aim is never to insult or try to tear down but rather one of peaceful discussion seeking truth as well.

 

[Deade]

I have no agendas if you are referring to me here. I only wish to share truth and peace, and gain wisdom along the way. Which I’m sure is your aim also. I’m sure your aim is never to insult or try to tear down but rather one of peaceful discussion seeking truth as well.

I agree with you on the clean meat ordinances which I believe were given to Adam to be passed down to his descendants. I think you are reading too much into scripture to say that there were no carnivores prior to the fall of man. The green plant feeds all, but in the carnivores case it does so indirectly.

I do not think God meant for us to be vegetarians at any time. My basis for this is the Passover lamb. It was not optional whether they ate the lamb. It was compulsory, everyone had to eat it.

 

[Shemuel-Yerimiyahu]

I agree with you on the clean meat ordinances which I believe were given to Adam to be passed down to his descendants. I think you are reading too much into scripture to say that there were no carnivores prior to the fall of man. The green plant feeds all, but in the carnivores case it does so indirectly.

I do not think God meant for us to be vegetarians at any time. My basis for this is the Passover lamb. It was not optional whether they ate the lamb. It was compulsory, everyone had to eat it.

Def in agreement, He doesn’t call us to be vegetarians as he does put out the edict to eat the Passover lamb, and made a distinction of clean vs unclean meats. In the Noah situation I was saying that there was a time where everything had to be replenished on the Earth, and so it made sense how the Hebrew words read. But that Yahweh (God) does not say thou mayest never eat again. Thank you for the insights

 

[Hevosmies]

I never stated they were to be vegetarians for all time. I have stated with peace always, that they were to give time to allow all creatures human and not human to be fruitful and multiply. Has anyone read my post detailing the gestation period of animals, can you explain to me how if they were to eat a pig male or female (there were only two) how that species survived, or any of them for that matter because due to gestation periods and length of time that would be needed for new babes to mature, it makes no sense in my mind to eat animals until they have replenished the earth with enough of themselves in order to become food for mankind. I believe and have shown what the Hebrew states that Yahweh (God) was saying abstain all creatures, not just humans were to eat green, and the 4th verse when I showed what the Hebrew states says “indeed don’t eat flesh and soul” so in other words, read in how it was meant to be read it says in those two verses “ all living creatures eat green herbs bestowed. Indeed do not eat flesh and soul.” So verse 4 is a continuation of verse 3. Now this was not commanded to be done forever as in those laws and commands Yahweh always says “throughout your generations.” There not a statement like that here so we know it isn’t a forever thing. ..... as I have done, and been open minded and tried to see it how you have seen it, please just try to see what the words say and also think about how the animals would survive if they were being eaten by humans and also fighting off thier natural predators.

One more note the “given into your hand” statement has nothing to do with food. Yahweh states this statement again to the Israelites when he repeatedly tells them “your enemies are given to your hand” does this mean they were to eat them? Just food for thought.

I would like to also state again that I have not and will not state that Yahweh has asked us to be vegetarians for all time. I also believe the scriptures to be beautiful and this is how I have understood them, but if you don’t see it this way then I wish you well, if you see it this way, then I wish you well.... my point is I wish you well no matter and we don’t have to agree.

Do you believe we should be vegetarian NOW?

i hope not. Because:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

 

[Shemuel-Yerimiyahu]

Do you believe we should be vegetarian NOW?

i hope not. Because:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

I don’t know if you are saying I’m professing a wicked doctrine of demons, but I assure you I am not. And if you are saying that, I would caution as that is a huge accusation. I do not think we are to be vegetarians. I think meat is good, and acceptable, and does not go against scripture. My only point was sharing what I had read in Scripture in Hebrew and found interesting and fitting for the time that they had come off the ark and needing to replenish the earth so that there would eventually be an abundant amount of meat for humans to consume. Please slow down, read my words, and see that I never said that we are suppose to be vegetarians nor did I say Yahweh (God) commanded for us to be vegetarians everlasting. I understand you are passionate and that is good, be on fire for our God, but also please take time to see what I have actually written and not twist it to something I did not. Not that that was your intention, but it seems like what I have stated has been taken the wrong way and not read for what the words simply and directly state. I am not here to convert anyone to a new way of thinking, only sharing what I have read and seen in my own study, and would never claim to know or judge anyone’s heart.

 

[john832]

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

How are you doing with that?

I imagine, since you don't understand what the commandments are telling you, you think you are doing really swell.

(I was just going to say well but swell is more fun to say and it kind of conveys a bit of sarcasm that is intended as well)

Are you telling me I can’t strive to do something Christ commanded me to do?

 

[tribesman]

We must not presuppose that what we ought to do is the same thing as what we are able to do. God's commands to us do not presuppose the moral ability to obey them as natural men.

A simple example for this is the existence of the Ten Commandments, which are God's unchanging laws for living in community with one another. God did not give fallen humanity these commands presupposing that any of us had the moral capacity to perfectly live them out. In fact, God's perfect holy standard reveals our sin, it reveals our need for a Savior due to the fact that none of us is able to obey all of God's commands literally totally perfectly.

So, what we "ought" to do does not imply what we "can" do. The intended effect of God's commands is actually the opposite. What we ought to do (as commanded by God) is given to reveal to us that we cannot do it totally perfectly and are utterly dependent on God for our salvation. One purpose of the Law is to expose and lay bare our spiritual bankruptcy. Divine imperatives, according to Paul in Romans 3 are put there to undo us (See Rom 3:19, 20), not to give us hope in ourselves that we can obey them apart from in Christ.

It is the Law which brings knowledge of sin. The one who is telling you that God would only command us to do something we are able to do is way off the mark and has misapprehended the core meaning of the gospel, however sincere his faith may be. Scripture says that to believe the gospel is a command of God. 1 John 3:23 says "And this is His command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ." Elsewhere he says, "God commands everyone everywhere to repent...".

Obedience to this command cannot be accomplished apart from the work of the Holy Spirit, apart from faith. Faith and works are equally parts of the renewal of heart. So those who say that the unregenerate can obey the commands of God, apart from the Spirit, with our "free will" are teaching the dangerous and perilous doctrine of semi-pelagianism.

 

[Grandpa]

Are you telling me I can’t strive to do something Christ commanded me to do?

Your striving should lead you to something...

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

How come its not??? Why is your striving leading to more striving???

See Matthew 5:48 for your refresher on what the Law commands.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Are you telling me I can’t strive to do something Christ commanded me to do?

JESUS did say that
be perfect even as your FATHER In heaven Is perfect but how would YOU be perfect even as your FATHER In heaven Is perfect?

Paul wrote that the law Is holy and good and just but I am carnal so then how would you do what GOD told you to do when It comes to being perfect?

Romans7:12-15
King James Version

12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

 

[john832]

Your striving should lead you to something...

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

How come its not??? Why is your striving leading to more striving???

See Matthew 5:48 for your refresher on what the Law commands.

Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

You have a problem with this teaching of Christ?

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Joh_14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Joh_15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love

I gotta go Christ on this one.

 

[john832]

JESUS did say that
be perfect even as your FATHER In heaven Is perfect but how would YOU be perfect even as your FATHER In heaven Is perfect?

Paul wrote that the law Is holy and good and just but I am carnal so then how would you do what GOD told you to do when It comes to being perfect?

Romans7:12-15
King James Version

12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

So, the sixth Commandment says "Thou shalt not kill" is not really a Command? You having trouble with this? You killing a lot of people lately?

 

[mailmandan]

Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

You have a problem with this teaching of Christ?

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Joh_14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Joh_15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love

I gotta go Christ on this one.

What do you believe it means to "keep" His commandments and which commandments? Do you believe that you will receive eternal life based on the merits of your best efforts to obey all of God's commandments or are you by faith trusting in Jesus Christ/His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation? (Romans 3:24-28)

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So, the sixth Commandment says "Thou shalt not kill" is not really a Command? You having trouble with this? You killing a lot of people lately?

Yes It's a command found In the ten GOD said If you love HIM keep the commandments,so how would you do It?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So, the sixth Commandment says "Thou shalt not kill" is not really a Command? You having trouble with this? You killing a lot of people lately?

GOD In CHRIST told the rich young ruler to keep the commandments and the rich young ruler said he had been keeping them and GOD In CHRIST told him that he was still lacking so then how would you do better than the rich youg ruler?

 

[Grandpa]

Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

You have a problem with this teaching of Christ?

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Joh_14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Joh_15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love

I gotta go Christ on this one.

Matthew 11:28 is Christ speaking.

Do you think its one of Christs commands or is there a list of suggestions as well?

 

[john832]

What do you believe it means to "keep" His commandments and which commandments? Do you believe that you will receive eternal life based on the merits of your best efforts to obey all of God's commandments or are you by faith trusting in Jesus Christ/His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation? (Romans 3:24-28)

Well, you are not the first to ask this question...

Mat 19:18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER,' 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,' 'YOU SHALL NOT STEAL,' 'YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS,'
Mat 19:19 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER,' and, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "

It is obvious here that Jesus was referring to the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, Christ also said Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD.' "

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
Exo 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Exo 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Exo 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder.
Exo 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 "You shall not steal.
Exo 20:16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Exo 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."

I suppose you must form your own opinion but it is impossible for me to reason around this.

 

[john832]

Matthew 11:28 is Christ speaking.

Do you think its one of Christs commands or is there a list of suggestions as well?

Well, you can do what you want and reason what you wish but Jesus said...

Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD.' "

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
Exo 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Exo 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Exo 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder.
Exo 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 "You shall not steal.
Exo 20:16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Exo 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."

 

[john832]

Well, you can do what you want and reason what you wish but Jesus said...

Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD.' "

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
Exo 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Exo 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Exo 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder.
Exo 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 "You shall not steal.
Exo 20:16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Exo 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."

and the 5 minute time limit got me so I'll reply to myself...

Let me add the Jesus said this...

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Do what you wish with this but remember who said what.

 

[john832]

Matthew 11:28 is Christ speaking.

Do you think its one of Christs commands or is there a list of suggestions as well?

Of course it is a Command of Christ and so? How does this abrogate the responsibility to keep the Commandments? Or does this give you license to kill, commit adultery, steal, profane the Sabbath and curse God's name? If you want a life of unrest and misery, just go ahead and break God's Law.

 

[Jocund]

Def in agreement, He doesn’t call us to be vegetarians as he does put out the edict to eat the Passover lamb, and made a distinction of clean vs unclean meats. In the Noah situation I was saying that there was a time where everything had to be replenished on the Earth, and so it made sense how the Hebrew words read. But that Yahweh (God) does not say thou mayest never eat again. Thank you for the insights

"Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him." - Romans 14:1-3