Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

kaylagrl · May 14, 2021

Ok, I'm not Baptist. I don't espouse anything but what is clear in God's Word. You are saying the promises jump from the Jews to the Church. The Bible do not say that. That is replacement theology, and it goes under many names to hide it's anti-Semitic beginnings. Romans is speaking to the Jews, not the church. The Jews have been blinded, for a time, until the Gentiles come in. Why are you skipping everything that Romans 11 says?

Let's take a close look in my next post...

CS1 · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Ok, it is not false when as I stated it was done in the very word of God as we read in Exodus and the book of the Judges. You saying

"it's false " is becoming most taxing. The Book of Revelation and Daniel both speak of Isreal and the role they will play in Prophecy. which is being fulfilled today and will continue until Jesus comes back.

I'm sure the next post you have will be a repeat of what you said over the last six times you posted Roman 11.

disagreeing with you doesn't make one false. FYI you could be wrong and incorrectly using the bible to make yourself seem right to you.

Truth7t7 · May 14, 2021

kaylagrl said:

You espouse the false teaching of (Dual Covenant Theology) found in John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofields Dispensationalism

Roman's Chapter 11 is about the (Remnant Church) that are chosen and elected to salvation

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

You don't want to acknowledge the very clear scripture below, because your teaching in (Dual Covenant Theology) is destroyed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

(Israel Hath Not Obtained)
(The Election Hath Obtained)

(Israel Hath Not Obtained)
(The Election Hath Obtained)

(Israel Hath Not Obtained)
(The Election Hath Obtained)

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

CS1 · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

You espouse the false teaching of (Dual Covenant Theology) found in John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofields Dispensationalism

Roman's Chapter 11 is about the (Remnant Church) that are chosen and elected to salvation

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

You don't want to acknowledge the very clear scripture below, because your teaching in (Dual Covenant Theology) is destroyed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

(Israel Hath Not Obtained)
(The Election Hath Obtained)

(Israel Hath Not Obtained)
(The Election Hath Obtained)

(Israel Hath Not Obtained)
(The Election Hath Obtained)

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

if you continue with your troll-like posting, you may want to reconsider that, but if not I bid you good bye

Blackpowderduelist · May 14, 2021

kaylagrl said:

It says they can be grafted back in. Ok they become grafted in just as we were by faith in Jesus.

posthuman · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Rejecting replacement theology is not the sole purview of dispensationalism.

Truth7t7 · May 14, 2021

CS1 said:

Your claim of myself being a troll is "False" and your opinion in disagreement

As the words of God I have presented exposes the false teachings in (Dual Covenant Theology)

There is "One Covenant" between God and Man, the finished work on Calvary (Period) The New Testament In His Blood

The Remnant Elect Jew in Romans 11, Will Partake In The Very Same Covenant That All Believers Have Partaken In, Salvation Through The Shed Blood Upon Calvary

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Roman's Chapter 11 is about the (Remnant Church) that are chosen and elected to salvation

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

kaylagrl · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Paul is speaking
"I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."

Who is Paul speaking of here?? "I myself am an...?" Israelite. He is speaking to the Jews.

"What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day."

To this very day, the Jewish people are still blinded.

"Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious."

Did who not stumble beyond recovery? The church? Salvation has come to whom? To make Israel envious.

"But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!"

Whose inclusion?? The church?! No, the Jews.

" I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches."

" If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either."

"Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!"

He is able to graft who in again?? The church? No! Still speaking of the Jews.

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]

Again, no where here are we speaking of the church. We are talking about Jews vs Gentiles and every time it names who is being spoken of.

"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

His gifts and calling are what??? IRREVOCABLE !! To whom?? THE JEWS! NOT the CHURCH!!

"Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. "

Just as YOU were enemies of Christ and disobedient, you have received mercy!!! As the Jews will also receive mercy! So don't boast!!! There, nothing to do with the Baptist, the Bible, right there for you to read for yourself.

kaylagrl · May 14, 2021

Blackpowderduelist said:

I printed Romans 11 for everyone to read. It's all there.

CS1 · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

that is fine yet your claims of everyone but you being false too is not true.

Your idea of Dual Covenant Theology and those who you think hold to that is also false.
I am not proponents of that concept, however,

I do believe the Old and New Testament are fully and completely the word of God. And there are prophetic Books in the Old Testament like Daniel that still have not been fulfilled in the record of the New Testament, or in church history, or in the context of Isreal today.

The very truth That Israel is a nation today IS a testimony to God's ability to keep Hid people.

Create a doctrinal position to attack it or label those here unwarranted, is not what one should to prove their point. But you do what you think is right and so shall I. Ok.

Truth7t7 · May 14, 2021

kaylagrl said:

Paul is speaking
"I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."

Who is Paul speaking of here?? "I myself am an...?" Israelite. He is speaking to the Jews.

"What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day."

To this very day, the Jewish people are still blinded.

"Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious."

Did who not stumble beyond recovery? The church? Salvation has come to whom? To make Israel envious.

"But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!"

Whose inclusion?? The church?! No, the Jews.

" I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches."

" If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either."

"Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!"

He is able to graft who in again?? The church? No! Still speaking of the Jews.

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]

Again, no where here are we speaking of the church. We are talking about Jews vs Gentiles and every time it names who is being spoken of.

"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

His gifts and calling are what??? IRREVOCABLE !! To whom?? THE JEWS! NOT the CHURCH!!

"Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. "

Just as YOU were enemies of Christ and disobedient, you have received mercy!!! As the Jews will also receive mercy! So don't boast!!! There, nothing to do with the Baptist, the Bible, right there for you to read for yourself.

You will closely note you gave disregard in highlighting the words?

(Which He Foreknew)

God has not cast away his people, the "Remnant Elect" chose Jew which God foreknew, who will accept the finished work on Calvary and be added to the Church, the Israel Of God

Roman's 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

CS1 · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

You will closely note you gave disregard in highlighting the words?

(Which He Foreknew)

God has not cast away his people, the "Remnant Elect" chose Jew which God foreknew, who will accept the finished work on Calvary and be added to the Church, the Israel Of God

Roman's 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

copying and pasting the same thing over and over again is very much trollish behavior. are you a hard ultra Calvinist? Maybe that is the issue?

Truth7t7 · May 14, 2021

CS1 said:

Big Smiles!

I have been accused of (Replacement Theology) as you sit silent, why wont you come to my rescue?

The term (Dual Covenant Theology) is a reality in the realm of Eschatology, that teaches and believes God has covenants with the Jews/Israel and the Church

You have suggested that God has "Future" promises to fulfill to Abraham, this being false, as the promise was fulfilled in Jesus Christ as Galatians 3:16 teaches

Truth7t7 · May 14, 2021

CS1 said:

Your claim of trollish behavior is false, it's my opinion that you oppose the truth of Gods words posted, and the messenger posting his truth

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

kaylagrl · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

You will closely note you gave disregard in highlighting the words?

(Which He Foreknew)

God has not cast away his people, the "Remnant Elect" chose Jew which God foreknew, who will accept the finished work on Calvary and be added to the Church, the Israel Of God

Roman's 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

No!! The church does not replace Israel. Now you're mixing OSAS with Replacement Theology. smh You're ignoring the entire passage. It says clearly "ALL ISRAEL will be saved". This has nothing to do with YOU. Sorry, you're just totally wrong here. It's clear and you're denying it.

Truth7t7 · May 14, 2021

kaylagrl said:

"All Israel" will be saved, when the very last soul is added to the Church

"The Church is the Israel of God, Children Of The Promised Seed"

They Which Are The Children of The Flesh (Jews) These Are Not The Children Of God

Roman's 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Nehemiah6 · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

No. That is the true teaching of the Word of God. And I could show you scores of Scriptures to support that. Even a reading of Romans 11 should be sufficient.

There is no "Dual Covenant Theology". Both the Church and redeemed and restored Israel will be under the New Covenant. And the New Birth will be essential for anyone to enter into the eternal Kingdom of God.

At the same time, since God made a covenant with Abraham regarding the land between the Nile and the Euphrates, God will fulfil that in the future under Christ: In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed [the twelve tribes of Israel] have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. (Gen 15:18-21). This covenant was reiterated to both Isaac and Jacob. And it is an eternal covenant, therefore we read this in Ezekiel:

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers [Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob]; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. (Ezekiel 36:24-28)

CS1 · May 14, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

No, I disagree with your opinion Notices I have yet to say you pose the truth. That is the difference between you and me. You think you can name call to others and me more than once and we are just to sit by and take it? You can disagree but you need to learn the term of false in context saying it to another Christian. If one is false they are doing so intentionally therefore they are labeled false.

However, calling one false who disagree with you strengthens your opinion, I ASSURE YOU it does not. I do not oppose the truth of God's word and you are not the messenger of truth. Disagreeing with you is not in opposition to God. That is foolishness.

and I see you did not answer my question are you an ultra Calvinist?

Truth7t7 · May 14, 2021

CS1 said:

John 10:27-30KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

Roughsoul1991 · May 14, 2021

iamsoandso said:

Your going back and forth from democracy,freedom,human rights ect. to "religion". Why I am pointing this out is that "the state of Israel" is just that it is a state that when created was called Israel. If you look closely at how it is ran it is not a religious state that uses the Torah(Scriptures) to determine its political decisions but instead it is adamant in the position that "Israel will not become a state of Halachah(Jewish law) https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/06/03/netanyahu-israel-will-not-be-governed-by-jewish-law/

If you notice Zionism is a "political movement" not a "religious/religion based" movement and should not be confused one with the other. The state of Israel has no desire,nor ever did have the desire to be the "nation of Israel" as you/we see in the Bible. This is the reason there is the disagreement between the "Orthodox Jews"(want a religious nation/Biblical) and those who seek/sought a secular government not based on religion(in power from 1948 till now).

The problem your seeing now(current news) is that,,, "if",,, Gaza and the Golan Heights become part of the state of Israel then it's people(population) will be able to vote in elections and the Muslim/Islamic vote would out number the Jewish (both orthodox and non religious) and the Islamic/Muslim people would be the majority. So the issue is that in order to keep the "state of Israel" in existence both Gaza and the G.H's. must not be permitted to vote and the population in Israel has to remain a Jewish majority(forced relocation of Muslims). It's the same as if Texas succeeded from the union after a few elections the Hispanic/Latino vote would be the majority. https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-turnout-rises-to-60-after-reaching-an-all-time-low-in-april/

Are you saying that this Israel isn't connected Biblically but the revelation Israel has not yet appeared?

Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

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