Who was Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane?
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God the Father. It is best understood in the context of the Trinity. The evidence for a 3 in 1 God. 1 God manifests into three separate beings but still of one essence. It is pretty evident in the scriptures but hard to comprehend the question of how does this work. God is beyond our capabilities to completely understand. That's why He is God.
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I want to respectfully disagree that it is best understood in the concept of the Trinity which I do hold to and believe is biblical to that I say amen.
Yet the human mind can't fully comprehend the divine nature of the One true God. Trying to do so is futile. it has led to much debate and argument and frankly has turned off many to the Lord. We are incapable of understanding our fleshly minds fight against such human rational. In the born-again believer, the Holy Spirit opens up the understanding of the Believer to accept Jesus as Lord. Yet in each saint of God who prays, we will hear speaking to the Father in the name ( authority ) Jesus. We sense God's presence by the Holy Spirit who is ministering to us.
it is powerful, wonderful, and incomprehensive.
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What I disagreeing with is the vast amount of argument that comes from those in the church over the Trinity. And it is not about feeling better is saying something. The issue is the idea you or I or anyone else for that matter, can fully argue the One true God in such a way to fully understand how a holy God can be three yet one.
When approaching the divine nature of God we must be reverent and humble, not presumptuous.
No.
it is a Holy God whole made us in His image that in Himself came to save us from our sins and we must fear, respect, and worship Him in Spirit and truth. We Must come to God the creator through His Son the Lord Jesus that will give us the Holy Spirit who is God in us.
That we can know HIm by his creation, by His Word, and by the relationship with His Son through the Holy Spirit.
many people speak of God very disrespectfully and attack others who will not agree for the sake of debate and pride.
When approaching the divine nature of God we must be reverent and humble, not presumptuous.
- " I know " "it's the chicken-egg".
- "it's water " ice and steam"
- "it's the nature of three kinds of light"
No.
it is a Holy God whole made us in His image that in Himself came to save us from our sins and we must fear, respect, and worship Him in Spirit and truth. We Must come to God the creator through His Son the Lord Jesus that will give us the Holy Spirit who is God in us.
That we can know HIm by his creation, by His Word, and by the relationship with His Son through the Holy Spirit.
many people speak of God very disrespectfully and attack others who will not agree for the sake of debate and pride.
I know this is getting a bit nit-picky and treading in waters way over our head, but I don't believe we can so easily divide the two natures of Jesus into two neat packages and say "This was his human side and this was His Divine side; any more can we compartmentalize Scripture and say 'this was the divine portion and this was the human portion. We also see the same inexplicableness when it comes to God's sovereignty and human responsibility.
We are 100% responsible all the while God is 100% sovereign.
Scripture is 100% Divinely inspired all the while using 100% of man's agency (writing style, language abilities etc.)
Jesus is 100% God, yet has limited Himself to being 100% man.
Our pigeon holing these categories is a bit arbitrary.
We are 100% responsible all the while God is 100% sovereign.
Scripture is 100% Divinely inspired all the while using 100% of man's agency (writing style, language abilities etc.)
Jesus is 100% God, yet has limited Himself to being 100% man.
Our pigeon holing these categories is a bit arbitrary.
This is what iv never understood... How can Jesus be God...
If Jesus is God then why would he need to pray to himself?
God is omniscient and omnipotent. Jesus shows us that he isn't these things and prays to God for strength.
Obviously another entity. He speaks/prays to God several times.
"Why have you abandoned me?" A massive accusation at the hour of his death even
People will be quoting things that were said. But what i have found is that it is very easy to dismiss something said as metaphorical.
For example, 7 day creation. Jesus brothers/sisters. Born of WATER and spirit.
All of these have someone claiming a metaphorical interpretation of what was said
One thing that is hard to take metaphorically are actions... They speak louder than words...
And the actions of Christ show me one of either two things
1/ Jesus is not God
Or
2/ God is not omniscient or omnipotent
How else can God pray to God?
I think the Orthodox have this view of Christ. That he is the son... Im not 100% sure about that but
If Jesus is God then why would he need to pray to himself?
God is omniscient and omnipotent. Jesus shows us that he isn't these things and prays to God for strength.
Obviously another entity. He speaks/prays to God several times.
"Why have you abandoned me?" A massive accusation at the hour of his death even
People will be quoting things that were said. But what i have found is that it is very easy to dismiss something said as metaphorical.
For example, 7 day creation. Jesus brothers/sisters. Born of WATER and spirit.
All of these have someone claiming a metaphorical interpretation of what was said
One thing that is hard to take metaphorically are actions... They speak louder than words...
And the actions of Christ show me one of either two things
1/ Jesus is not God
Or
2/ God is not omniscient or omnipotent
How else can God pray to God?
I think the Orthodox have this view of Christ. That he is the son... Im not 100% sure about that but
The text says that Jesus prayed to God the Father.
God the Son laid aside His privilege of Deity to represent man. There was no accusation, you are projecting.
So you believe Jesus' death was metaphorical? If so, your forgiveness is also metaphorical.
This is a classic example of finite reason trying to explain away infinite wisdom. We take what God has revealed in His Word at face value.
God the Son laid aside His privilege of Deity to represent man. There was no accusation, you are projecting.
So you believe Jesus' death was metaphorical? If so, your forgiveness is also metaphorical.
This is a classic example of finite reason trying to explain away infinite wisdom. We take what God has revealed in His Word at face value.
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Jesus forgave sins. No one but God can do that.
Colossians 2
8 Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elements of the world,
rather than Christ. 9 For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
Philippians 2
5 .........Christ Jesus,
6 who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God
as something to be exploited.
7 Instead he emptied himself
by assuming the form of a servant,
taking on the likeness of humanity.
And when he had come as a man,
8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient
to the point of death—
even to death on a cross.
9 For this reason God highly exalted him
and gave him the name
that is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow—
in heaven and on earth
and under the earth—
11 and every tongue will confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Colossians 2
8 Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elements of the world,
rather than Christ. 9 For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
Philippians 2
5 .........Christ Jesus,
6 who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God
as something to be exploited.
7 Instead he emptied himself
by assuming the form of a servant,
taking on the likeness of humanity.
And when he had come as a man,
8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient
to the point of death—
even to death on a cross.
9 For this reason God highly exalted him
and gave him the name
that is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow—
in heaven and on earth
and under the earth—
11 and every tongue will confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
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Short answer, His Father.
Scripture proclaims: The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are all God.
Jesus is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matt 1:23, Jn 1:1 & 20:28, 1 Tim 3:16 Titus 2:13 Rom 9:5 Rev 1:8.
Holy Spirit (always capitalized showing deity) is God: Ps 139:7-8, Acts 5:3-4 & 13:2, Eph 4:30, 1 Cor 2:10-11, 12:4-7, 2 Cor 3:16 & 13:14
God the Son/Jesus the Christ, pre-existed prior the his incarnation & is our Gen 1, Creator/God: Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16 & 17, 1 Cor 8:6, Eph 3:9
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NOTE: God the Son/Redeemer/Christ/Jesus, the Genesis 1 creator of our universe, preexisted with God the Father. The Word/Jesus (Rev 13:19) was with God (The Father) and was/is also God)
Jn:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God the Father gave/sent his Son)
6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
(NOTE: God the Son/Jesus say's He; came down from heaven to do the will of him/the Father, that sent Him. Its at creation, God the Son, begins His mission/work of reconciliation/salvation.)
Jn 16:28 Jesus said, I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, He came forth from the Father (did he leave himself?) He will return to the Father. Although, The Son is ONE WITH, he's NOT the Father)
Jn 1:1 states the Word/Jesus is God Vs 14 states He/God the Son/Word, became flesh & lived among us. 1 Tim 3:16 states: God/Jesus was manifest in the flesh, Matt 1:23: Behold, a virgin shall be with child you shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. The notion that He wasn't 100% God in the flesh is contrary to scripture.
Jn 17:5 O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(NOTE: Before the world began, the Son, enjoyed glory "WITH" the Father. "NOT AS" the Father)
Scripture states 4 TIMES: "God the Father" said to "God the Son" Sit at my right hand. The Risen/Glotified Son dosen't sit down next to Himself.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
(NOTE: The LORD isn't talking to HIMSELF! Also see Ps 110:1, Matt 22;44, Lk 20:43)
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
(NOTE: Jesus said: I came from the Father, I leave this world & return to the Father. Jesus ISN'T returning to Himself)
Heb 10:12 (C) after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
(NOTE: This isn't the earthly Jesus. This is the risen/glorified Jesus & He, DOESN'T sit down next to Himself)
Rev 5:7 And he (Vs 5, the Loin of the tribe of Juda. Vs 6, the Lamb) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
(NOTE: This is the risen/glorified Lamb/Jesus. He DOESN'T take the book/scroll out of His own hand)
Rom 8:17 We're children, "heirs also", "heirs of God & fellow heirs with Christ
(NOTE: Believers are fellow heirs of God the Father, with Christ. Christ ISN'T an heir of/to himself?)
Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, thru whom also He made the world
(NOTE: God the Father APPOINTED God the Son HEIR of ALL things within our realm. Even though they are of the same Godly substance/firey brilliance. It all belonged to the Father, they didn't/don't have a CO-EQUAL share's)
God the Father sends God the Son:
Jn 3:16, 5:23, 30, 36 & 37, 6:38 & 39, 6:57, 8:42, 10;36, 12:49. Can anyone provide a scripture, where anyone sends the Father anywhere?
God the Father gives to God the Son: Jn 3:35, 5:22 & 26, 6:37&39, 10:29, 13:3 16:28. Can anyone provide a scripture, where anyone gives anything to the Father?
If the Father & Son are the same person, what's the point in any of the following verses? Everyone of these verses were written POST RESURRECTION! Gal 1:1 & 3, Eph 6:23, Php 2:11, 1 Th 1:1, 2 Ti 1:2, Tit 1:4, 1 Pe 1:2, 2 Pe 1:17, 2 Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1 Jude
Jn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(MY NOTE: Jesus/God the Son say's, I ascent to My Father & My God)
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
(MY NOTE: Jesus/God the Son say's, I will write the name of My God & I will write MY Name on believers/overcomers)
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(MY NOTE: Man is Head/has authority over the woman, Christ is Head/has authority over the man & God the Father is Head/has authority over God the Son)
Pay special attention vs 28!
1 Cor 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
When all is complete/fulfilled (after the white throne). The Son will what? SUBJECT, ALL THINGS INCLUDING HIMSELF, unto the Father, that gave them to him. Within our universe, Christ, will FOREVER remain King of Kings & Lord of Lords. Why? Because the Father, rewarded his faithful/obedient redemptive works. And has given all things within our universe.
Taking 1 verse Phil 2:6 out of context [equal] & building a doctrine, invariably leads to scriptural misinterpretation. He preexisted of the same substance, we humans are all of the same substance, not, were not all the same in rank, job, army etc.
I understand many may disagree with these opinions. No harm, no foul, that’s your privilege. I'm simply sharing thoughts on this topic & bible verses.
Scripture proclaims: The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are all God.
Jesus is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matt 1:23, Jn 1:1 & 20:28, 1 Tim 3:16 Titus 2:13 Rom 9:5 Rev 1:8.
Holy Spirit (always capitalized showing deity) is God: Ps 139:7-8, Acts 5:3-4 & 13:2, Eph 4:30, 1 Cor 2:10-11, 12:4-7, 2 Cor 3:16 & 13:14
God the Son/Jesus the Christ, pre-existed prior the his incarnation & is our Gen 1, Creator/God: Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16 & 17, 1 Cor 8:6, Eph 3:9
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NOTE: God the Son/Redeemer/Christ/Jesus, the Genesis 1 creator of our universe, preexisted with God the Father. The Word/Jesus (Rev 13:19) was with God (The Father) and was/is also God)
Jn:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God the Father gave/sent his Son)
6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
(NOTE: God the Son/Jesus say's He; came down from heaven to do the will of him/the Father, that sent Him. Its at creation, God the Son, begins His mission/work of reconciliation/salvation.)
Jn 16:28 Jesus said, I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, He came forth from the Father (did he leave himself?) He will return to the Father. Although, The Son is ONE WITH, he's NOT the Father)
Jn 1:1 states the Word/Jesus is God Vs 14 states He/God the Son/Word, became flesh & lived among us. 1 Tim 3:16 states: God/Jesus was manifest in the flesh, Matt 1:23: Behold, a virgin shall be with child you shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. The notion that He wasn't 100% God in the flesh is contrary to scripture.
Jn 17:5 O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(NOTE: Before the world began, the Son, enjoyed glory "WITH" the Father. "NOT AS" the Father)
Scripture states 4 TIMES: "God the Father" said to "God the Son" Sit at my right hand. The Risen/Glotified Son dosen't sit down next to Himself.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
(NOTE: The LORD isn't talking to HIMSELF! Also see Ps 110:1, Matt 22;44, Lk 20:43)
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
(NOTE: Jesus said: I came from the Father, I leave this world & return to the Father. Jesus ISN'T returning to Himself)
Heb 10:12 (C) after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
(NOTE: This isn't the earthly Jesus. This is the risen/glorified Jesus & He, DOESN'T sit down next to Himself)
Rev 5:7 And he (Vs 5, the Loin of the tribe of Juda. Vs 6, the Lamb) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
(NOTE: This is the risen/glorified Lamb/Jesus. He DOESN'T take the book/scroll out of His own hand)
Rom 8:17 We're children, "heirs also", "heirs of God & fellow heirs with Christ
(NOTE: Believers are fellow heirs of God the Father, with Christ. Christ ISN'T an heir of/to himself?)
Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, thru whom also He made the world
(NOTE: God the Father APPOINTED God the Son HEIR of ALL things within our realm. Even though they are of the same Godly substance/firey brilliance. It all belonged to the Father, they didn't/don't have a CO-EQUAL share's)
God the Father sends God the Son:
Jn 3:16, 5:23, 30, 36 & 37, 6:38 & 39, 6:57, 8:42, 10;36, 12:49. Can anyone provide a scripture, where anyone sends the Father anywhere?
God the Father gives to God the Son: Jn 3:35, 5:22 & 26, 6:37&39, 10:29, 13:3 16:28. Can anyone provide a scripture, where anyone gives anything to the Father?
If the Father & Son are the same person, what's the point in any of the following verses? Everyone of these verses were written POST RESURRECTION! Gal 1:1 & 3, Eph 6:23, Php 2:11, 1 Th 1:1, 2 Ti 1:2, Tit 1:4, 1 Pe 1:2, 2 Pe 1:17, 2 Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1 Jude
Jn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(MY NOTE: Jesus/God the Son say's, I ascent to My Father & My God)
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
(MY NOTE: Jesus/God the Son say's, I will write the name of My God & I will write MY Name on believers/overcomers)
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(MY NOTE: Man is Head/has authority over the woman, Christ is Head/has authority over the man & God the Father is Head/has authority over God the Son)
Pay special attention vs 28!
1 Cor 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
When all is complete/fulfilled (after the white throne). The Son will what? SUBJECT, ALL THINGS INCLUDING HIMSELF, unto the Father, that gave them to him. Within our universe, Christ, will FOREVER remain King of Kings & Lord of Lords. Why? Because the Father, rewarded his faithful/obedient redemptive works. And has given all things within our universe.
Taking 1 verse Phil 2:6 out of context [equal] & building a doctrine, invariably leads to scriptural misinterpretation. He preexisted of the same substance, we humans are all of the same substance, not, were not all the same in rank, job, army etc.
I understand many may disagree with these opinions. No harm, no foul, that’s your privilege. I'm simply sharing thoughts on this topic & bible verses.
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L
Hebrews chapter 5
[7] Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
[7] Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
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Despite the quotation of much scripture my questions weren't answered.
If Jesus is God then why would he need to pray to himself?
Doesn't make sense to me. Jesus prays to God the Father in his darkest hours for strength. Just as i do
Clearly another identity. God is omniscient and omnipotent and doesn't need to pray to himself.
Most of Christs words are in parables. They're metaphors. A figure of speech.
Actions speak louder than words and Christ's actions indicate there is a greater God. Who art in heaven, as he says
He speaks about God many times but more importantly he speaks to God and God speaks back.
"This is my son. With him i am well pleased"... God says that, remember. More than once even i think. Once at baptism i think and once when Moses and Elijah appear, if im not mistaken... God says THIS IS MY SON...
Im surprised how many Protestants adhere to the Trinity given that the term was created by the Catholic Church and does not appear once in scripture
If Jesus is God then why would he need to pray to himself?
Doesn't make sense to me. Jesus prays to God the Father in his darkest hours for strength. Just as i do
Clearly another identity. God is omniscient and omnipotent and doesn't need to pray to himself.
Most of Christs words are in parables. They're metaphors. A figure of speech.
Actions speak louder than words and Christ's actions indicate there is a greater God. Who art in heaven, as he says
He speaks about God many times but more importantly he speaks to God and God speaks back.
"This is my son. With him i am well pleased"... God says that, remember. More than once even i think. Once at baptism i think and once when Moses and Elijah appear, if im not mistaken... God says THIS IS MY SON...
Im surprised how many Protestants adhere to the Trinity given that the term was created by the Catholic Church and does not appear once in scripture