Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

FreeGrace2 · May 11, 2021

There's no rapture in the parable of the 10 virgins. It's a teaching about being ready. You only "see" a rapture there.

OK. Still no rapture.

Second advent, obviously.

No, the Bible ends with

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

And I say "Amen" as well.

You still don't have any verse that teaches that raptured people are taken up to heaven. So why should anyone believe you?

ChoirLoft · May 11, 2021

cv5 said:

Rapture, Tribulation, Revelation and many other misinterpretations of scripture are NOT based upon logic or revelations by the Ruach ha-Kodesh. They are based upon demonic false doctrine promoted by the Roman Catholic Church and American false prophets like John Nelson Darby.

Originally gathered into a published form by Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit priest of the Roman Catholic church, the doctrines of FUTURISM began to be promoted in the late 16th century. In the mid-19th century, John Nelson Darby a known consort of witches reformulated the RCC dogma into his version called DISPENSATIONALISM. Cyrus Scofield was so enamored of the myth that he included references to it in his chain link reference Bible. Evangelist D.L. Moody also promoted the false doctrine in his lectures and sermons. Despite the denial of these doctrines by the fathers of the Protestant Reformation they have assumed dogmatic importance and fanatical defense among those who embrace current religious theory and myth.

To this day, the Great Deception remains firmly rooted in the post protestant church - the rapture, the tribulation, false interpretations of Daniel Revelation and the gospels.

Anyone with a modicum of curiosity can discover the true roots of this deception. Anyone with an ounce of logic can discern the deception. Anyone with integrity will reject it as part of Biblical context. Sad to say there are few who fall into this group.

Christian stupidity and stubbornness is not a virtue, yet they behave as though it is.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

lamad · May 11, 2021

ChoirLoft said:

Rapture, Tribulation, Revelation and many other misinterpretations of scripture are NOT based upon logic or revelations by the Ruach ha-Kodesh. They are based upon demonic false doctrine promoted by the Roman Catholic Church and American false prophets like John Nelson Darby.

Originally gathered into a published form by Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit priest of the Roman Catholic church, the doctrines of FUTURISM began to be promoted in the late 16th century. In the mid-19th century, John Nelson Darby a known consort of witches reformulated the RCC dogma into his version called DISPENSATIONALISM. Cyrus Scofield was so enamored of the myth that he included references to it in his chain link reference Bible. Evangelist D.L. Moody also promoted the false doctrine in his lectures and sermons. Despite the denial of these doctrines by the fathers of the Protestant Reformation they have assumed dogmatic importance and fanatical defense among those who embrace current religious theory and myth.

To this day, the Great Deception remains firmly rooted in the post protestant church - the rapture, the tribulation, false interpretations of Daniel Revelation and the gospels.

Anyone with a modicum of curiosity can discover the true roots of this deception. Anyone with an ounce of logic can discern the deception. Anyone with integrity will reject it as part of Biblical context. Sad to say there are few who fall into this group.

Christian stupidity and stubbornness is not a virtue, yet they behave as though it is.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Oh no! Not the choir loft again!

lamad · May 11, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:

There are certainly people locked out of somewhere that the bridegroom is or will be.

In context, this is speaking of coming:

24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

lamad · May 11, 2021

Absolutely said:

I don't think so.

FreeGrace2 · May 11, 2021

lamad said:

Parables were meant to teach simple principles of life. In the 10 virgin parable, the point is to be ready. Nothing more.

Right. Be ready. As I said.

Jesus was NOT teaching a pre-trib rapture.

In fact, EVERY verse that contains the "coming of the Lord" refers to the Second Advent. Or prove otherwise.

Jesus came to earth as a baby the FIRST time.

Jesus comes to earth as King of kings the SECOND time.

Those are facts. There are no e comings. There are only 2.

The biggest error about pretrib rapture is that there are no verses that mentions raptured believers being taken to heaven.

That alone sinks your boat. Without that, you have nothing. With such a verse, you have everything.

TheDivineWatermark · May 11, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:

I agree that in His Olivet Discourse He was covering the Subject of His [what we call] Second Coming to the earth, as that was their Q to Him in Matt24:3, which Q was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 ("the end [singular] of the age [singular]," when the angels will "REAP" [and "the age [singular] to come" FOLLOWS that]); Jesus had not yet spoken anything regarding our Rapture [IN THE AIR] (up to and including throughout His Olivet Discourse--none of which covers the Subject of "our Rapture").

CORRECT!

cv5 · May 11, 2021

ChoirLoft said:

Rapture, Tribulation, Revelation and many other misinterpretations of scripture are NOT based upon logic or revelations by the Ruach ha-Kodesh. They are based upon demonic false doctrine promoted by the Roman Catholic Church and American false prophets like John Nelson Darby.

Originally gathered into a published form by Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit priest of the Roman Catholic church, the doctrines of FUTURISM began to be promoted in the late 16th century. In the mid-19th century, John Nelson Darby a known consort of witches reformulated the RCC dogma into his version called DISPENSATIONALISM. Cyrus Scofield was so enamored of the myth that he included references to it in his chain link reference Bible. Evangelist D.L. Moody also promoted the false doctrine in his lectures and sermons. Despite the denial of these doctrines by the fathers of the Protestant Reformation they have assumed dogmatic importance and fanatical defense among those who embrace current religious theory and myth.

To this day, the Great Deception remains firmly rooted in the post protestant church - the rapture, the tribulation, false interpretations of Daniel Revelation and the gospels.

Anyone with a modicum of curiosity can discover the true roots of this deception. Anyone with an ounce of logic can discern the deception. Anyone with integrity will reject it as part of Biblical context. Sad to say there are few who fall into this group.

Christian stupidity and stubbornness is not a virtue, yet they behave as though it is.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

I can't hear you anymore because I put you on ignore....

Truth7t7 · May 11, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:

Jesus Christ Returns In "Final Judgement"

Jesus Is Gonna Redeem The Earth, By (Fire)!

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

FreeGrace2 · May 11, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Yes He does. And the "final judgment" INCLUDES His 1,000 year reign on planet earth. The Bible says so. Your ridiculous spiritualizing of Rev 20 into nothingness is ludicrous.

Truth7t7 · May 11, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:

Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

TheDivineWatermark · May 11, 2021

Rev20:4a "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them" is distinct from those persons in v.4b... (where that next phrase starts out with "AND...," i.e. something DISTINCT).

The ones in v.4a are those who HADN'T died; and this part of the verse is parallel with Daniel 7:22 "and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom." And then vv.25 and 27 are explanatory regarding that section

Absolutely · May 11, 2021

lamad said:

The rapture is Jesus gathering his bride.

You ; "i don't think so"

Truth7t7 · May 11, 2021

Absolutely said:

Your correct, the rapture is Jesus Gathering the Church, immediately after the tribilation

Absolutely · May 11, 2021

cv5 said:

Amazing how they call us satanic spew from hell then think God pays any attention to their prayers.

A babe in christ with a bible can easily refute the tired anemic mess that postrinbers promote.

FreeGrace2 · May 11, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

This is boring and tired. Quit repeating yourself (copy &paster) and prove your spiritualized fantasy.

But how? You can't and you know it. All you have are claims. But no substance.

I have the actual WORDS of Scripture to stand by. You have only your fantasies.

As I've already pointed out, this string of a word salad makes no sense at all, and even ends with a question mark. What is that for? Are you asking a question or what?

In any case, the word salad makes no sense. Like the rest of your spiritualized fantasy.

So silly. Your claim about "100% spiritual realm, no literal time" is pure speculation and fantasy. You know you can't prove anything you claim. So you just keep repeating yourself.

You stand by what you WANT Scripture to mean.

I stand by what Scripture CLEARLY SAYS in literal words.

Absolutely · May 11, 2021

ChoirLoft said:

Rapture, Tribulation, Revelation and many other misinterpretations of scripture are NOT based upon logic or revelations by the Ruach ha-Kodesh. They are based upon demonic false doctrine promoted by the Roman Catholic Church and American false prophets like John Nelson Darby.

Originally gathered into a published form by Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit priest of the Roman Catholic church, the doctrines of FUTURISM began to be promoted in the late 16th century. In the mid-19th century, John Nelson Darby a known consort of witches reformulated the RCC dogma into his version called DISPENSATIONALISM. Cyrus Scofield was so enamored of the myth that he included references to it in his chain link reference Bible. Evangelist D.L. Moody also promoted the false doctrine in his lectures and sermons. Despite the denial of these doctrines by the fathers of the Protestant Reformation they have assumed dogmatic importance and fanatical defense among those who embrace current religious theory and myth.

To this day, the Great Deception remains firmly rooted in the post protestant church - the rapture, the tribulation, false interpretations of Daniel Revelation and the gospels.

Anyone with a modicum of curiosity can discover the true roots of this deception. Anyone with an ounce of logic can discern the deception. Anyone with integrity will reject it as part of Biblical context. Sad to say there are few who fall into this group.

Christian stupidity and stubbornness is not a virtue, yet they behave as though it is.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Finally!!!
A worthy theologian to my challenge!

The challenge is:
Please post one verse pointing to a postrib rapture.
So far none have accepted.

Amazing how well versed you postribs are!
"Darby"
"Lahaye"
"Scoffield"
"Lies from hell"
"Satanic"
"7th trump"
"Last trump"
"After"

Add it up...remove the rapture verses...A DOCTRINE IS BORN!!!!

SMH

FreeGrace2 · May 11, 2021

Absolutely said:

Hey there. Have you found the verse that says raptured believers are taken to heaven yet?

FreeGrace2 · May 11, 2021

Absolutely said:

Such a fib! 2 Thess 2:1-3 very clearly says that the "gathering" (or rapture to you) occurs with the Second Coming. Where is the Christian character in such fibbing?

However, you have been challenged by pointing ANY verse that teaches that raptured believers are taken up to heaven.

And you haven't even punted.

So why should you be believed?

Absolutely · May 11, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:

MAT 25

But you wont look at it.

Or believe that according to rev 14 gathering DURING THE TRIB ...BY JESUS...has your theory leading you to "the dead in christ RISE AFTER THE LIVING"

So poorly thought out is the supposed postrib rapture model

Pssst....Please compare 1 thes 4 TO rev 14

Game
Set
Match

Your deal is busted...big time.

You;
" there are no black cars"

Me ; pointing to black car 2 ft away

You " show me ANYWHERE..I MEAN ANYWHERE that it has "black car" written on it.

Clever...but no cigar.
Um ...no ....Actually ridiculous.

Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

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