Does anyone understand
- Thread starter oldman
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to crossnote and reneweddaybyday.
Thanks. This is a break through in understanding for me. Just as in Moses' tabernacle in the ot, the alter of incense represented the prayers and praises of GOD'S people in the physical realm. GOD being just inside the veil could smell that incense and was pleased. So today by seeing the ot example of the alter of incense we can understand that when live people praise, pray, worship those praises, prayers and worship are pleasing to GOD. HE takes pleasure in them.
First the natural then the spiritual. We are given examples in the natural, physical realm to help us understand things in the spiritual realm.
I know this is poorly worded but now I have a clearer understanding.
Thanks. This is a break through in understanding for me. Just as in Moses' tabernacle in the ot, the alter of incense represented the prayers and praises of GOD'S people in the physical realm. GOD being just inside the veil could smell that incense and was pleased. So today by seeing the ot example of the alter of incense we can understand that when live people praise, pray, worship those praises, prayers and worship are pleasing to GOD. HE takes pleasure in them.
First the natural then the spiritual. We are given examples in the natural, physical realm to help us understand things in the spiritual realm.
I know this is poorly worded but now I have a clearer understanding.
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This is spot on correct!
Probably early 1973 we were at the larger church. The congregational singing of a scripture song was ending and we were moving into individual praise.
Me with eyes closed and hand up got out the words 'Praise you Lord...' and I heard the almost audible voice of the Lord "Why?" His voice was gentle not all all harsh or demanding. "Praise me? Really? How come? What is it about Me that you praise at this moment?" I cannot emphasize just how gentle / soft the question to me was. HE was asking 'Do you believe your own words? Do they come from your heart or your head? Do you understand and mean what you're saying?"
It was then that I started to look inward a little bit to see if what I was saying actually matched what I believed. If I did not believe what I was saying it was nothing but lip service and I needed to understand the difference between lip service and true praise. I have a sense that lip service praise is actually an insult
Probably early 1973 we were at the larger church. The congregational singing of a scripture song was ending and we were moving into individual praise.
Me with eyes closed and hand up got out the words 'Praise you Lord...' and I heard the almost audible voice of the Lord "Why?" His voice was gentle not all all harsh or demanding. "Praise me? Really? How come? What is it about Me that you praise at this moment?" I cannot emphasize just how gentle / soft the question to me was. HE was asking 'Do you believe your own words? Do they come from your heart or your head? Do you understand and mean what you're saying?"
It was then that I started to look inward a little bit to see if what I was saying actually matched what I believed. If I did not believe what I was saying it was nothing but lip service and I needed to understand the difference between lip service and true praise. I have a sense that lip service praise is actually an insult
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Concerning use of the word "fragrance" to describe praise, prayers or worship - if our sincere heart felt words are a sweet smell to the Father, if those words are true, how must they smell to satan? I imagine he will flee from such as we would flee from a skunk. Praise as a spiritual weapon? Oh yeah!
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In Ephesians 6 where we are told about the whole armour of God, we are instructed to put on each piece of armour. And the instruction is to withstand and stand against the onslaught of the adversary. Additionally, we are instructed to pray and speak the gospel.
Ephesians 6:18-19 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel
I wonder how powerful the church would be if we would just follow the instruction in Scripture.
Put on the whole armour of God ... withstand and stand against the wiles of the devil ... pray with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit ... open our mouths boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel.
Ephesians 6:18-19 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel
I wonder how powerful the church would be if we would just follow the instruction in Scripture.
Put on the whole armour of God ... withstand and stand against the wiles of the devil ... pray with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit ... open our mouths boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel.
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so much to say to that...
I remember the strength of the praise of the charismatic renewal in the 70s. We have become much weaker in our congregational praise over the past 50 years or so. Breaks my heart and I am often burdened to pray for another outpouring of God's spirit.
That there is so much controversy, contention concerning proper praise exposes satans works against it. If he can't stop it, he will at least try to weaken it sometimes directly with spiritual oppression, sometime through the egos of men - he will use every tool available to shut down praise.
Paul wrote in Corinthians '...a great door is opened to me and there are many adversaries." An open door of ministry automatically brings resistance therefore Paul used the word 'and'. Without resistance we are doing nothing that shakes hell.
Praise / high praise is written of in the O.T. - well before Pentecost and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit so spiritual gifts should not even be a factor.
I remember the strength of the praise of the charismatic renewal in the 70s. We have become much weaker in our congregational praise over the past 50 years or so. Breaks my heart and I am often burdened to pray for another outpouring of God's spirit.
That there is so much controversy, contention concerning proper praise exposes satans works against it. If he can't stop it, he will at least try to weaken it sometimes directly with spiritual oppression, sometime through the egos of men - he will use every tool available to shut down praise.
Paul wrote in Corinthians '...a great door is opened to me and there are many adversaries." An open door of ministry automatically brings resistance therefore Paul used the word 'and'. Without resistance we are doing nothing that shakes hell.
Praise / high praise is written of in the O.T. - well before Pentecost and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit so spiritual gifts should not even be a factor.
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That reminds me of an 'oldie but goodie' by Merlin Carothers, "From Prison to Praise".
One might note that Paul and Silas praised and worshipped God even in prison...
About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them, and suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. And immediately all the doors were opened, and everyone's bonds were unfastened.
(Act 16:25-26)
One might note that Paul and Silas praised and worshipped God even in prison...
About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them, and suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. And immediately all the doors were opened, and everyone's bonds were unfastened.
(Act 16:25-26)
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Look at the life of David ... read his psalms of praise to the Father. David talked to God all the time about things that were on his heart. Do we? Do we take God with us everywhere we go and talk to Him about what we see and hear and feel?
A lot of people pray to God when they are going through trials ... and praise God they turn to Him then ... but what about in times of relative calm and/or when we have occasion to be joyful? Do we include God in those times? the mundane ... the good ... the bad?
I have 3 kids (all grown now) and I remember thinking at one point ... how would I feel if my kids only came to me when they needed something from me? We are God's children. Do we only talk to God when we "need" something from Him? Or do we include Him in everything that goes on in our lives? and then when we bring an issue to Him, do we patiently wait for Him to bring His solution in the situation ... or do we try to "help" God and when we muck it up do we then tell ourselves that He failed us?
I love this song ... it kinda hits home on this issue ...
Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
A lot of people pray to God when they are going through trials ... and praise God they turn to Him then ... but what about in times of relative calm and/or when we have occasion to be joyful? Do we include God in those times? the mundane ... the good ... the bad?
I have 3 kids (all grown now) and I remember thinking at one point ... how would I feel if my kids only came to me when they needed something from me? We are God's children. Do we only talk to God when we "need" something from Him? Or do we include Him in everything that goes on in our lives? and then when we bring an issue to Him, do we patiently wait for Him to bring His solution in the situation ... or do we try to "help" God and when we muck it up do we then tell ourselves that He failed us?
I love this song ... it kinda hits home on this issue ...
Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
Best answer for me is 'sometimes' . There are times when it seems HE just shows up and makes me aware that HE is with me in a stronger way. Just shows up and kinda asks "What 'cha doing?. " Overly simplistic i suppose and nice when it happens. Other times I seek HIM and HE's just an arm length away
The lead singer has moments of spiritual glow in that song - watch her face.
The lead singer has moments of spiritual glow in that song - watch her face.
Looking for opinions. There are times when we reach high praise while alone with the Lord. HIS realized presence is almost physicall tangible. When more gather, say 2 others for a total of 3 is HIS realized presence added to or multiplied. Is it 1+1+1 = 3? Or does the LORD multiply the 1+1+1 to equal say 10? Men add, GOD multiplies?
Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people;
once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
(1 Peter 2:10)
Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth,
and I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;
then I will say to those who were not My people,
‘You are My people!’
And they shall say,
‘You are my God!’ ”
(Hosea 2:23)
but the divorced wife, He will also speak kindly to, and restore
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I don't believer there is any way to quantify the presence of God. I also do not believe everyone experiences God's presence when He makes Himself known in a gathering of believers.
Acts 17:
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being ...
Acts 17:
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being ...
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I have had pretty much the same realization of what is true from my heart and what was not. We therefore recognize what God really wants, is from our hearts. God does not care about some ritualistic type service, no matter how good the singing is, if it has no true love for Him. Very good brother.
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