Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Truth7t7]

If you carefully read verse 12 , it is written , over 'the' man not over 'a' man. And then the next verse saying for Adam was formed first then Eve. The relationship between Adam and Eve was that of a husband and wife , to remind you. And therefore, i believe the authority stated here is that of one between a husband and a wife.

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Jordan]

It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem say s, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).

According to the Lord, There is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus. Straight forward and simple. The Lord was not sexist, or racist

 

[Tararose]

Thank you for your dismissal of what I have studied over the years. It does sound as though you have superior knowledge to me even though I have four degrees and produced a paper for a Ph.D. I must go talk to my alma mater and let them know what they teach is all wrong because Tararose said so.

So lets corecct a few of your mistakes.

1. I never said you needed a Ph.D. to know that man is the head of his household in scripture.
2. The fact that some households had no man is irrelevant as there exceptions to every rule but they don't make the rules.
3. I am not foolish enough to ignore the teaching of men who know a lot more than I do.
4. I never broached the subject of living of fresh air.
5. What is your point? Because someone wrote it in a book it can't be true?
6. I found 60 authors that agreed with each other. That is known as the weight of evidence.
7. Ignoring other scholars of repute is hardly a good basis for being dogmatic.
8. You are a good example of people lacking in knowledge when discussing this topic.
9. I never mentioned anyone who disagreed with me.
10. Yes it would be a good idea not to waste my time with red herrings.

I never brandished my qualifications, experience not knowledge to be greater nor lesser than your own. I can only assume a raw nerve has been touched and pride hurt. I can offer no apologies for either if so. You have yet again brandished yourself as the oracle on the topic. A topic which I have other agreed nor disagreed with you on for the record. I offer no red herrings, rather only plain old common sense, based on basic bible principles of how to discuss things respectfully with fellow brethren. You may not recognise that because of your manner of presenting your views on the topic though. Yes we can certain stop here right enough.

It is a true saying indeed, that knowledge puffs up but love edifies. I am sure you mean well, but it is not good to esteem yourself higher than others.

 

[Major]

According to the Lord, There is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus. Straight forward and simple. The Lord was not sexist, or racist

You are exactly correct. The CONTEXT of the Scripture you were referring to was about the salvation of the Gentiles compared to the Jews and Greeks. ALL people are able to be saved because God love ALL people.

However.....that has absolutely nothing to do with the focus of this thread. The fact that God SAID men had to be the ordained leaders of His church was for ACCOUNTABILY and HEADSHIP......not salvation.

 

[Major]

You quote it yourself HE will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgement. He does not send US to convict or to condemn anybody, He sends us to announce the GOOD NEWS.

As always.....thank you for your opinion. Now lets see what God actually says....shall we????

Jonah 1:1-2
"The word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying, “Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before Me.”

1 Thessalonians 2:4
"but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who examines our hearts."

2 Timothy 4:2-5
"preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

Romans 10:15........
"And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

The truth is, if we experience nothing more than a pang of conscience, anxiety at the thought of judgment, or an academic awareness of hell, then we have never truly known the conviction of sin.

To be convicted is to feel the sheer loathsomeness of sin when that sin is exposed by the preaching of God's Word. THEN the Holy Spirit does His work in that heart.

When the Holy Spirit convicts people of their sin, He represents the righteous judgment of God. There is no appeal of this verdict. The Holy Spirit not only convicts people of sin, but He also brings them to repentance. The Holy Spirit brings to light our relationship to God. The convicting power of the Holy Spirit opens our eyes to our sin and opens our hearts to receive His grace.

Again.....I hope that I have been able to help your understanding!

 

[Major]

I quoted the RCC as an example to show that unity of doctrines and creed, and nobody faults the Nicene creed, but that doesn't make it a true church.

There was only the RCC so the true church was there within a false structure led by men and not by God ... that is my charge against the Southern Baptist Church ... not that it is not the true church but that it's structures are not according to the bible, that it is led by men and not by God.

When you go preaching against this and preaching against that and make a creed out of it you are preaching the law and not the grace of God. This is the result of man-think.

I only point out the FALSE teachings that the AOG promotes about tongues, miracles, healings and properity. IF you choose to accept those things then you are as guilty as they are.

The SBC is as far from the "true Church" as you are from being a car in the garage!

The TRUE CHURCH is the born again believers who accept Christ and try to follow His Words.

The RCC NEVER did that in any way then......and still do not do it today so your example actually had no legs to stand on.

Thank you for the clarification and again, I hope that I have been able to help you understand better what is actually going on today.

 

[Major]

I have no idea what you are getting at?

Then there is nothing I can do for you.

 

[Jordan]

You are exactly correct. The CONTEXT of the Scripture you were referring to was about the salvation of the Gentiles compared to the Jews and Greeks. ALL people are able to be saved because God love ALL people.

However.....that has absolutely nothing to do with the focus of this thread. The fact that God SAID men had to be the ordained leaders of His church was for ACCOUNTABILY and HEADSHIP......not salvation.

The Lord said, He looks on the heart not the genitals. He created male and female to be equal. to have HIM as the head. He says, there should be no other hierarchy betwwween Him and anyones heart. Women can not blame men, and men can not blame women. Each and every individual is responsible to the Lord. IMO FME (In my opinion from my experience)

 

[Mem]

Having been recalled of the account of the announcement of Samson's birth, the name of Menoah's wife is left unknown whereas she is simply referred to as 'the woman. Even though, the Angel of the Lord, Whose Name Is Wonderful, chose to speak directly to her and obviously, overlook Menoah until he asked for a 'confirmation' in apparent disbelief God spoke to her... and so, again, the Angel of the Lord appeared to her and she, then, ran to fetch Menoah, It has posited that her name is left unsaid in light of her of foregoing her own sensitivities in consideration of her husband's, greater need, in spite of his lack.

 

[Jordan]

I think you meant to write every prophetic word of God is true, every encathedral THUS SAITH THE LORD word of God is true.

 

[Jordan]

I only point out the FALSE teachings that the AOG promotes about tongues, miracles, healings and properity. IF you choose to accept those things then you are as guilty as they are.

The SBC is as far from the "true Church" as you are from being a car in the garage!

The TRUE CHURCH is the born again believers who accept Christ and try to follow His Words.

The RCC NEVER did that in any way then......and still do not do it today so your example actually had no legs to stand on.

Thank you for the clarification and again, I hope that I have been able to help you understand better what is actually going on today.

Dont know about the abbreviation churches, you mention. Sounds hierarchical if you ask me. After you receive Jesus, He is suppose to be our head whether male or female. He is our husband as it states in prophetic Isaiiah

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

I'd like to see you try telling Phillip's 4 daughters to shut up run you out on a rail boy

You know there is also an interesting thing to keep in mind about prophesying in general.

I think we're always presuming that prophesying is of the Holy Spirit. In Acts 16:16-18 it wasn't. We should always be mindful to discern spirits. The only way to be able to discern the spirits is to be in the scriptures daily reading and learning only what God teaches us.

 

[Dino246]

You know there is also an interesting thing to keep in mind about prophesying in general.

I think we're always presuming that prophesying is of the Holy Spirit. In Acts 16:16-18 it wasn't. We should always be mindful to discern spirits.

I had to hunt to find a translation that calls what the slave girl was doing "prophesying", and found only two of 40-odd. It's true that it's not all of the Holy Spirit, but the context of Acts 21 doesn't hint at anything occult, so we can safely conclude that it was actually the Holy Spirit at work in Philip's daughters.

 

[Jordan]

Jesus speaks through anyone including children, women can prophesy, especially if and only if they have the fear of God in their hearts and have a proven record. Men try to shut them up, which is hardly the HOLY SPIRIT

Amos 3

The Lord also doesnt speak only through adults, that would be age-ism if there was such a word Do NOT LIMIT the HOLY ONE of Jacob who became Israel the person not the country.

 

[Jordan]

Dont know about the abbreviation churches, you mention. Sounds hierarchical if you ask me. After you receive Jesus, He is suppose to be our head whether male or female. He is our husband as it states in prophetic Isaiiah

Heres that verse... that truth.....
Isaiah 54:5
For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

 

[Jordan]

Heres that Amos verse and truth

1. Joel 2:28
   And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Acts 2:17
   And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams

Therefore it is settled and final and a given, women can DEFINITELY PROPHESY and if any man hush them, when they are in the SPIRIT, they are opposiong the Lord and should be wary of so doing.

 

[Dino246]

Heres that Amos verse and truth

1. Joel 2:28
   And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Acts 2:17
   And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams

Therefore it is settled and final and a given, women can DEFINITELY PROPHESY and if any man hush them, when they are in the SPIRIT, they are opposiong the Lord and should be wary of so doing.

Psst... you didn't provide the Amos verse. 3:8 is the one you want, perhaps?

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

I had to hunt to find a translation that calls what the slave girl was doing "prophesying", and found only two of 40-odd. It's true that it's not all of the Holy Spirit, but the context of Acts 21 doesn't hint at anything occult, so we can safely conclude that it was actually the Holy Spirit at work in Philip's daughters.

Well, I guess you're right. She wasn't really prophesying. She was actually saying what everyone was learning at the time, that these apostles were teaching of Jesus, the way to salvation. Not everyone knew it at the time, but it was also not a secret. It was being proclaimed throughout the land.

So, I suppose she wasn't really prophesying, she was just possessed by a divining spirit and was being used for evil. Who knows what that divining spirit was making her say? She could have been saying damnable things against her own soul and needed to be saved.

 

[Jordan]

Psst... you didn't provide the Amos verse. 3:8 is the one you want, perhaps?

Ha...Im getting old and forgettful.. Its Joel and Acts, as I posted them above.

Psst... you didn't provide the Amos verse. 3:8 is the one you want, perhaps?

Dynamic Dino..... nope it was a mistake... but wait a minute .... great confirming verse... lioness !


7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

(women are His servants as well, as He is married to them..... and they are one..or could be one just as with men)

8 The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord God hath spoken, who can but prophesy?

(the Lionesses roar too, and you better listen to any wwoman that is in the SPIRIT ... or else the Master of the LIONERSS or Lion of the King of Judah will roar even louder. Dont limit the Holy One of Israel, whether male or female

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

You are exactly correct. The CONTEXT of the Scripture you were referring to was about the salvation of the Gentiles compared to the Jews and Greeks. ALL people are able to be saved because God love ALL people.

However.....that has absolutely nothing to do with the focus of this thread. The fact that God SAID men had to be the ordained leaders of His church was for ACCOUNTABILY and HEADSHIP......not salvation.

I think the issue may be that there are emotions about this topic. There is great offense about this topic. There are disagreements about this topic. That is normal. I was very deeply offended by this topic when I was in my 20s and first started to seek after God in his word. Many a time have I been offended about things and put the book away. But, God keeps bringing me back again and again. For that, I can't even comprehend his lovingkindness.

Psalm 119:176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.