Today’s church’s misunderstandings

[gb9]

The bible does say that. it says the Sabbath had passed. when they got to the tomb the rock had rolled away and Don't forget the Roman Guards

Matthew 28: 1-8


1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn,(dawn had started which is still dawn) Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. 2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door,and sat on it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4 And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.
5 But the angel answered and said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly and tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead, and indeed He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him. Behold, I have told you.”
8 So they went out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.


do you realize how long it took those to walk to the location of the tomb? and if Dawn had already started by the time they got there it was Dawn On the first day of the week.

You can't read the Bible and separate the truth that dawn had started and the women were right at the tomb? No. Matthew is writing this event after it happened and did not fully capture every little thing why? Because what is important is that Jesus is a LIVE!!

i do not think that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, just to be clear.

i was saying what many of the Sabbatarians have told me over the years.

i have had many debates with people who push the Sabbath Resurrection, and have been told what i said earlier many times by them.

 

[CS1]

i do not think that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, just to be clear.

i was saying what many of the Sabbatarians have told me over the years.

i have had many debates with people who push the Sabbath Resurrection, and have been told what i said earlier many times by them.

Nor am I saying you are

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if Jesus died on the 5th day of the week and three days later it would be on the 6th day of the week if you count the 5th day and not 24 hours.

Yet Jews considered any part of the day that day. Jesus died on Thursday that was one day he was dead.

Thats why I said it is sort of an issue.

Thursday allows for three nights. Friday allows for two nights.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

where the greek word Day mean day and night means night, dusk, night festival etc..

This just adds to some of the confusion though. If he died on Thursday how was Friday considered sabbath.

 

[CS1]

Thats why I said it is sort of an issue.

Thursday allows for three nights. Friday allows for two nights.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

where the greek word Day mean day and night means night, dusk, night festival etc..

This just adds to some of the confusion though. If he died on Thursday how was Friday considered sabbath.

the context of Jonah three days and three-night doesn't give us what three days of the week now does it?

any part of the day or night on that specific day or night is that day or night. that is all we have about Jonah. The day Jonah was spewed out of the belly was it 24 hours on the third day or was he spewed out on that third day ?.

 

[CS1]

Thats why I said it is sort of an issue.

Thursday allows for three nights. Friday allows for two nights.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

where the greek word Day mean day and night means night, dusk, night festival etc..

This just adds to some of the confusion though. If he died on Thursday how was Friday considered sabbath.

But the context of Jesu we have in the gospels the very clear word that states the First day of the week and the Sabbath had passed. Jonah contextually can't provide us nor does it. BUT the eyewitnesses do.

The Sabbath-keepers need this because it makes their legalistic point more credible. it is known as eliciting of scripture.

 

[Magenta]

if Jesus died on the 5th day of the week and three days later it would be on the 6th day of the week if you count the 5th day and not 24 hours.

Yet Jews considered any part of the day that day. Jesus died on Thursday that was one day he was dead.

For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights,
so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

I realize this is not a salvation issue and Scripture does not say clearly enough for us to know exactly, but the criteria seems to be being in the heart of the earth, as opposed to simply being dead. Ha, is that splitting hairs? I enjoy puzzling it out, even if no conclusions can be drawn I do lean toward a Wednesday crucifixion and death, and it is possible He was buried at sundown, just as it is possible He rose at sun-up, and in fact, the gospel accounts seem to vary on this point as well, for Mary arrives while it is still dark in John's gospel, whereas in Matthew, she arrives at dawn on the first day of the week, so it is getting light out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the context of Jonah three days and three-night doesn't give us what three days of the week now does it?

any part of the day or night on that specific day or night is that day or night. that is all we have about Jonah. The day Jonah was spewed out of the belly was it 24 hours on the third day or was he spewed out on that third day ?.

I would agree except for the word night.

If he died on Friday, We have Friday day, and Friday night, Saturday day and yesterday night. Sunday day.

the confusion comes from adding the word night. We know the day starts at sundown and ends the next sundown.

So we have Friday day one, Saturday day 2 and Sunday day three. no issue..

I believe it was Friday he died. But I can understand the argument for three nights..

 

[CS1]

I would agree except for the word night.

If he died on Friday, We have Friday day, and Friday night, Saturday day and yesterday night. Sunday day.

the confusion comes from adding the word night. We know the day starts at sundown and ends the next sundown.

So we have Friday day one, Saturday day 2 and Sunday day three. no issue..

I believe it was Friday he died. But I can understand the argument for three nights..

I can only speak what is given in the gospels three bare witnesses that it was the first day of the week so, any thought that guesses what the day Jesus died and doesn't take the three gospel accounts in the assessment I think is an error.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can only speak what is given in the gospels three bare witnesses that it was the first day of the week so, any thought that guesses what the day Jesus died and doesn't take the three gospel accounts in the assessment I think is an error.

I agree. He rose Sunday morning. so it does not matter what day he died (be it Thursday or Friday)

 

[Mem]

Thats why I said it is sort of an issue.

Thursday allows for three nights. Friday allows for two nights.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

where the greek word Day mean day and night means night, dusk, night festival etc..

This just adds to some of the confusion though. If he died on Thursday how was Friday considered sabbath.

Friday being Passover , a high sabbath, saturday being weekly sabbath, Jesus would have laid in repose through two sabbath... I do not think it is correct to assume the passover lamb was prepared on the passover but in the afternoon before, just before the passover's arrival (that evening), after the pattern of the exodus.

 

[CS1]

I agree. He rose Sunday morning. so it does not matter what day he died (be it Thursday or Friday)

I would not say it doesn't matter what day HE died I think what we have as to the end result in scripture as to when HE rose from the Dead surely gives clarity to when he Died in context to three days he was dead. I can't look at the day and not the day of resurrection why?


Because the Full Gospel message is the Death burial and resurrection. it is the devil who wants to divide us on this day and that day when the full account of death, burial, and resurrection are essential to the Gospel message.

Brother, this argument ( not that we are) doesn't produce anything but takes away from all three important essential required things of the gospel message. I truly can't understand how it is so many are played by the devil on things like this. it is not the day he died but all the death, burial, and resurrection.

When a mature Christian understands this, what a power liberating day it will be

 

[Magenta]

I agree. He rose Sunday morning. so it does not matter what day he died (be it Thursday or Friday)

If He rose before dawn, it was still the Sabbath. We only know that when the women arrived at dawn, He was not in the tomb

 

[Mem]

Also note that there was no time allotted that Jesus body be prepared for burial ( as absolutely nothing that even resembled any form of work is to be done on sabbaths) hence the womens' attempt to return...however, Jesus had acknowledged, ahead of time, his consideration of Mary's perfume and tears as having been preparation for his burial..

 

[Mem]

But the context of Jesu we have in the gospels the very clear word that states the First day of the week and the Sabbath had passed. Jonah contextually can't provide us nor does it. BUT the eyewitnesses do.

The Sabbath-keepers need this because it makes their legalistic point more credible. it is known as eliciting of scripture.

This argument for a Sunday resurrection is soundest against all argument against it as, whether scripture is referring to the Roman solar or Hebrew lunar calendar, 'the first day of the week at dawn" is Sunday on both, even though the day begins on Saturday evening on the Hebrew Calendar).

 

[gb9]

If He rose before dawn, it was still the Sabbath. We only know that when the women arrived at dawn, He was not in the tomb

keep in mind , the jews kept days from sundown till sundown.

so, the Sabbath ended , by our way of counting days, as the sun went down sat. afternoon. the women did not go to the Tomb till sun. morning, at or near dawn.

so, Jesus did NOT rise on the Sabbath.

 

[Mem]

keep in mind , the jews kept days from sundown till sundown.

so, the Sabbath ended , by our way of counting days, as the sun went down sat. afternoon. the women did not go to the Tomb till sun. morning, at or near dawn.

so, Jesus did NOT rise on the Sabbath.

Saturday night resurrection, before midnight could be argued, and still count as the last night but, its a short window to work with, and would be consider 'after the sabbath', yes. And, Saturday night does not 'qualify as 'dawn', which at the break of having been the timeframe the ladies arrived.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If He rose before dawn, it was still the Sabbath. We only know that when the women arrived at dawn, He was not in the tomb

The sabbath ended on sunset of the night before. The next day (Sunday) started at that time

so we have from sunset until the time of the sun rise that would still be the first day of the week. so it is not assured he rose on the sabbath.

Our day starts and ends at midnight. Theirs starts and ends at sunset. If sunrise starts at 7 am. Then in our day we have 7 hours, In their day, we would add a few hours to that.

in essense, he would have had to risen before sunset on Saturday for him to rise on the sabbath, there is no evidence of this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Saturday night resurrection, before midnight could be argued, and still count as the last night but, its a short window to work with, and would be consider 'after the sabbath', yes. And, Saturday night does not 'qualify as 'dawn', which at the break of having been the timeframe the ladies arrived.

Yes, To resurrect on the sabbath he would have had to be resurrected before Sunset on the sabbath day.

 

[Mem]

Yes, To resurrect on the sabbath he would have had to be resurrected before Sunset on the sabbath day.

Yes! Although Saturday night is 'immediately after the sabbath', it is no longer 'the sabbath'... unless its happens to be a special sabbath, of course, like Passover...

 

[Magenta]

keep in mind , the jews kept days from sundown till sundown.

so, the Sabbath ended , by our way of counting days, as the sun went down sat. afternoon. the women did not go to the Tomb till sun. morning, at or near dawn.

so, Jesus did NOT rise on the Sabbath.

We do not know for a fact that Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath.

What we are told is He was already risen on the next day. He could very well have risen before sunrise.

To say one way or another is speculative.