Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Dino246]

I don't think it contrasts at all. If anything, the passages you're referring to:

Corinthians 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Explain that men and women, mankind, are both temporal, fallen beings because both sinned. It is only the "image" and the propriety of exemplifying that "image doctrine" that prohibits women from being in authority in church.

The language of verse 11 contrasts with the preceding verses. In several translations, it is worded as, "However, in the Lord...". That "however" negates the previous assertions. Yes, the first woman came from man, but in the Lord, men and women are interdependent.

You can't very well assert that the genders are interdependent while simultaneously asserting that all men have "headship" over all women. Further, the "headship" argument applies only s to marriage, and no further.

 

[Aidan1]

The language of verse 11 contrasts with the preceding verses. In several translations, it is worded as, "However, in the Lord...". That "however" negates the previous assertions. Yes, the first woman came from man, but in the Lord, men and women are interdependent.

You can't very well assert that the genders are interdependent while simultaneously asserting that all men have "headship" over all women. Further, the "headship" argument applies only s to marriage, and no further.

Yes, and when here meant married, then it is the same with bishop in 1.Tim 3, 1-7;
You will say them that an unmarried woman can be Pastor, but not an married woman?
If 1. Tim. 3, 1-7 is for woman, then you have to change the scripture and there meaning.
Because in a marriage the woman has not to rule over the man, right?

 

[Dino246]

Yes, and when here meant married, then it is the same with bishop in 1.Tim 3, 1-7;
You will say them that an unmarried woman can be Pastor, but not an married woman?
If 1. Tim. 3, 1-7 is for woman, then you have to change the scripture and there meaning.
Because in a marriage the woman has not to rule over the man, right?

I think something of your meaning is lost in translation, however...

You're implying that a married woman cannot be an elder because she is under the authority of her husband. Tell me: for a married woman who works, what authority does her husband have over her in her workplace? None. He has authority in the home... period.

 

[Aidan1]

I think something of your meaning is lost in translation, however...

You're implying that a married woman cannot be an elder because she is under the authority of her husband. Tell me: for a married woman who works, what authority does her husband have over her in her workplace? None. He has authority in the home... period.

No, i am just catching your argument. That the " headship" is for married woman. Thats I agree with you.
But if you take the " headship" to 1. TIM 3, where a bishop is husband, then the woman cant be bishop.
Thats mean according what you said about the headship, then is only an unmarried woman not under an headship. But in the culture was an unmarried woman under her father and it was not thinkable, that she is Pastor/bishop/ elder of an church.

But the mainpoint is still, that for to see in 1.Tim 3, 1-7 a woman as bishop, you have to change the word of God.

 

[Dino246]

But if you take the " headship" to 1. TIM 3, where a bishop is husband, then the woman cant be bishop.
Thats mean according what you said about the headship, then is only an unmarried woman not under an headship. But in the culture was an unmarried woman under her father and it was not thinkable, that she is Pastor/bishop/ elder of an church.

Why would "headship" preclude a married woman from being an elder? Please explain that.

But the mainpoint is still, that for to see in 1.Tim 3, 1-7 a woman as bishop, you have to change the word of God.

No, I don't. The restriction "husband of one wife" applies to deacons as to elders (1 Tim. 3:12, cf. 3:2). However, given that Phoebe was a deacon, it follows that "husband of one wife" precludes polygamists, not females.

 

[Aidan1]

Why would "headship" preclude a married woman from being an elder? Please explain that.


No, I don't. The restriction "husband of one wife" applies to deacons as to elders (1 Tim. 3:12, cf. 3:2). However, given that Phoebe was a deacon, it follows that "husband of one wife" precludes polygamists, not females.

1. As bishop, a female has authority over man. So also a married woman is over her husband if she is Bishop.
2. The text 1. TIM. 3,1-7 is adressing man and not female. Do you think only man can be polygamist because of have more then one woman? He is also polygamist when he is divorced and has married another woman.
This can happend with a woman, too.
But only man is adressed in the text.
A man in this time was to stand before the household.
And the further context before 3, 1 proofs also that a woman should not teach ore rule over man because of the creationorder and sinfall ( 1.Tim 2, 12-18).

 

[Evmur]

Why would "headship" preclude a married woman from being an elder? Please explain that.


No, I don't. The restriction "husband of one wife" applies to deacons as to elders (1 Tim. 3:12, cf. 3:2). However, given that Phoebe was a deacon, it follows that "husband of one wife" precludes polygamists, not females.

I been scouring the concordance for deaconess, I knew there was one. Of course it is under deacon.

 

[Aidan1]

I been scouring the concordance for deaconess, I knew there was one. Of course it is under deacon.

Even if their was a deaconess, a deaconess was no bishop/leader/pastor
If we see what today a deaconess is doing, she is involved with social/health ministrie.

 

[Chosen]

Why is this an issue at all in today's Christianity?

"God is not the author of confusion" (I Corinthians 14:33). True Christians "Worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). "For there is no respect of persons with God" (Romans 2:11). "There is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28).

"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8).

When there is a dispute concerning the gospel of Christ (Hebrews 6:1-3)

"Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein" (Jeremiah 6:16).

Is there going to be a male section in heaven?

Ask yourself, why would God choose Judge Deborah to rule over Israel if women are not to rule?

"This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men" (Daniel 4:17).

"...till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will (Daniel 4:25).

"...until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will (Daniel 4:32).

In the New Covenant Chapter of Jeremiah 31 (v22) God said "...for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man."

Consequently "the old path" (Jeremiah 6:16) has spoken! Will you "walk therein" (Jeremiah 6:16)?

"FORGET NOT" (Hebrews 13:16)!

'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8).

 

[Dino246]

Even if their was a deaconess, a deaconess was no bishop/leader/pastor
If we see what today a deaconess is doing, she is involved with social/health ministrie.

That is called baseless speculation.

 

[Major]

I been scouring the concordance for deaconess, I knew there was one. Of course it is under deacon.

That is a lot of work. Why didn't YOU just ask me????

Romans 16:1.........

"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea" (KJV).
"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Cenchrea" (Revised Standard Version).​

In this passage the word diakonos appears in the Greek text and is translated "servant" in the King James Version and "deaconess" in the Revised Standard Version. It is also translated "servant" in the American Standard Version, New American Standard Version, New King James Version, New International Version and Diaglott as well as some others.

Among those that translate diakonos to mean "deaconess" are the following translations:
Williams, Moffatt, Macknight and Living Oracles. It also appears in the margin of the ASV as "deaconess."

1. Ordinarly it simply means a "servant" or "minister." In the case of diakonos being translated "deacon" in Philippians 1:1 and I Timothy 3:8-11, the context demands (or at least justifies) that such be done. Note: The context of Romans 16:1 does not demand (nor justify) that diakonos be translated "deaconess."
2. There are no specific qualifications given for deaconesses. If the New Testament does authorize deaconesses, we do not know which women should be selected and appointed to be deaconesses.

Source: Does the New Testament Authorize Deaconesses? (lavistachurchofchrist.org)

 

[Aidan1]

That is called baseless speculation.

I am speaking from deaconess in the protestant church in germany.
Do you really say that Deacon and Bishop is the same? Where do you have this from the scripture?

 

[Aidan1]

Why is this an issue at all in today's Christianity?

"God is not the author of confusion" (I Corinthians 14:33). True Christians "Worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). "For there is no respect of persons with God" (Romans 2:11). "There is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28).

"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8).

When there is a dispute concerning the gospel of Christ (Hebrews 6:1-3)

"Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein" (Jeremiah 6:16).

Is there going to be a male section in heaven?

Ask yourself, why would God choose Judge Deborah to rule over Israel if women are not to rule?

"This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men" (Daniel 4:17).

"...till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will (Daniel 4:25).

"...until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will (Daniel 4:32).

In the New Covenant Chapter of Jeremiah 31 (v22) God said "...for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man."

Consequently "the old path" (Jeremiah 6:16) has spoken! Will you "walk therein" (Jeremiah 6:16)?

"FORGET NOT" (Hebrews 13:16)!

'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8).

Well, you are right God is not an God of confusion.
In heaven are no men and no woman, as we have here, so till then we have to struggle with the different understanding about what is written. What it makes not easier when someone put the verses out of the context and the genuine understanding of the scripture, for to support his own view.

 

[Chosen]

Well, you are right God is not an God of confusion.
In heaven are no men and no woman, as we have here, so till then we have to struggle with the different understanding about what is written. What it makes not easier when someone put the verses out of the context and the genuine understanding of the scripture, for to support his own view.

Why would GOD choose the woman Deborah as Judge and rule over Israel if women can't rule?

"GOD DOESN'T CHANGE" (Malachi 3:6)!

"Judges 4:1-24 and 5:1-31. Deborah was the only woman Judge or Ruler of Israel. She ruled about 1237BC—1198BC, she was also a prophetess. She was the wife of Lapidoth and held court under the palm tree of Deborah. Deborah seems to have held her court under the palm tree of Deborah for a number of years, this may have been for more than thirty years."

"Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." (I Corinthians 10:11)!

"How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8)!

 

[Chosen]

Why would GOD choose the woman Deborah as Judge to rule over Israel if women can't rule?

"GOD DOESN'T CHANGE" (Malachi 3:6)!

"Judges 4:1-24 and 5:1-31. Deborah was the only woman Judge or Ruler of Israel. She ruled about 1237BC—1198BC, she was also a prophetess. She was the wife of Lapidoth and held court under the palm tree of Deborah. Deborah seems to have held her court under the palm tree of Deborah for a number of years, this may have been for more than thirty years."

"Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." (I Corinthians 10:11)!

"How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8)!

 

[CS1]

Why would GOD choose the woman Deborah as Judge and rule over Israel if women can't rule?

"GOD DOESN'T CHANGE" (Malachi 3:6)!

"Judges 4:1-24 and 5:1-31. Deborah was the only woman Judge or Ruler of Israel. She ruled about 1237BC—1198BC, she was also a prophetess. She was the wife of Lapidoth and held court under the palm tree of Deborah. Deborah seems to have held her court under the palm tree of Deborah for a number of years, this may have been for more than thirty years."

"Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." (I Corinthians 10:11)!

"How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8)!

• Was not Deborah Judge/ prophetess?
• And is a judge/prophet in context to a pastor of the New Testament?
• Due to Deborah was called prophetess can we assume that is transferred to a Pastor in the New Testament?

Thank you,
in advance for your answering my questions.

 

[Chosen]

• Was not Deborah Judge/ prophetess?
• And is a judge/prophet in context to a pastor of the New Testament?
• Due to Deborah was called prophetess can we assume that is transferred to a Pastor in the New Testament?

Thank you,
in advance for your answering my questions.

"Again and again I sent all My servants the prophets to you [aka Deborah]. They said, “Each of you must turn from your wicked ways and reform your actions; do not follow other gods to serve them. Then you will live in the land I have given to you and your ancestors.” But you have not paid attention or listened to Me" (Jeremiah 35:15).



14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" (Romans 10:14-15).

Consequently we CAN compare the prophetess Deborah to "SENT" preachers (Romans 10:14-15) TODAY!

"For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him" (John 3:34)!

"This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the basest of men" (Daniel 4:37).

"Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people? " (I Kings 3:9)!

 

[CS1]

"Again and again I sent all My servants the prophets to you [aka Deborah]. They said, “Each of you must turn from your wicked ways and reform your actions; do not follow other gods to serve them. Then you will live in the land I have given to you and your ancestors.” But you have not paid attention or listened to Me" (Jeremiah 35:15).



14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" (Romans 10:14-15).

Consequently we CAN compare the prophetess Deborah to "SENT" preachers (Romans 10:14-15) TODAY!

Thank you but I asked :

• Was not Deborah Judge/ prophetess?
• And is a judge/prophet in context to a pastor of the New Testament?
• Due to Deborah was called prophetess can we assume that is transferred to a Pastor in the New Testament?

FYI a preacher is an action not an office like PASTOR OR PROPHET

Thank you,
in advance for your answering my questions.

 

[Dino246]

I am speaking from deaconess in the protestant church in germany.
Do you really say that Deacon and Bishop is the same? Where do you have this from the scripture?

I didn’t say that elders and deacons are the same; I said that the requirement “husband of one wife” is the same for both.

 

[Aidan1]

Why would GOD choose the woman Deborah as Judge and rule over Israel if women can't rule?

"GOD DOESN'T CHANGE" (Malachi 3:6)!

"Judges 4:1-24 and 5:1-31. Deborah was the only woman Judge or Ruler of Israel. She ruled about 1237BC—1198BC, she was also a prophetess. She was the wife of Lapidoth and held court under the palm tree of Deborah. Deborah seems to have held her court under the palm tree of Deborah for a number of years, this may have been for more than thirty years."

"Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." (I Corinthians 10:11)!

"How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8)!

Why we cant compare the OT with the NT?
Why we cant compare the law for the nation of Israel with the NT instructions for the church of Jesus?
Ore is both the same?
I see an difference.
The same who put in Deborah, says a woman should not rule over man.
The same gave the woman the consequence for eating from the tree of wisedom:. Pain by giving birth to a child. And the man will rule over her.
The same said the Man should love his wife, as Jesus loved the church.
The answer to the OP question is no.