So what do you say?

[posthuman]

Jesus laid aside being "all knowing" (omniscient) when He took on human flesh. There are many scriptures showing this. Your question is based on a false premise.

there are many scriptures showing that He did not at all cease being omniscient, omnipotent God. ever.

c. to learn by use and practice; (in the preterite) to be in the habit of, accustomed to: followed by an infinitive, 1 Timothy 5:; Titus 3:14; Philippians 4:11 (Aeschylus Prom. 1068; Xenophon, an. 3, 2, 25); ἔμαθεν ἀφ' ὧν ἔπαθε τήν ὑπακοήν, Hebrews 5:8 (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 68, 1 and ἀπό, as above). ​

​

((excerpt from Thayer's NT lexicon))
​

He set aside His glory, the train of His robe that filled the temple, which He demonstrated on the mount of transfiguration where Moses & Elijah testified that He Himself is the shekinah in the midst of the pillar of fire & smoke, Who sat between the cherubim over the ark.

 

[posthuman]

Luke 2:52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

​

c.f.

And the boy Samuel continued to grow in stature and in favor with the LORD and with people. ​

(1 Samuel 2:26)​

​

as he grew in stature, he did so in wisdom and favorably with respect to God and with people. compare also:

And The Child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon Him.​

(Luke 2:40)​

​

already "filled with wisdom" in verse 40, does His wisdom "increase" in verse 52? how much wisdom does it take to "fill" infinite God, whose fullness dwells in Jesus? i'd say all wisdom. i.e. nothing lacking

 

[posthuman]

c.f.

And the boy Samuel continued to grow in stature and in favor with the LORD and with people. ​

(1 Samuel 2:26)​

​

as he grew in stature, he did so in wisdom and favorably with respect to God and with people. compare also:

And The Child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon Him.​

(Luke 2:40)​

​

already "filled with wisdom" in verse 40, does His wisdom "increase" in verse 52? how much wisdom does it take to "fill" infinite God, whose fullness dwells in Jesus? i'd say all wisdom. i.e. nothing lacking

IMO we should understand Luke 2:52 as that He continued to advance, and did so having wisdom, stature and favor.

feel free to disagree

i would rather be wrong because my view of Him is too high and i praise Him too much, than to be wrong because my view was too low, and i did not praise Him enough

 

[posthuman]

There may have been things that came to Him as He grew but until then He was in the same boat as us. Unsure.

if Jesus is "unsure" then Jesus doubts, and doubt is sin ((Romans 14:23)) because it is lack of faith, therefore He is not a spotless sacrifice and there is no salvation.

 

[Magenta]

IMO we should understand Luke 2:52 as that He continued to advance, and did so having wisdom, stature and favor.

feel free to disagree

i would rather be wrong because my view of Him is too high and i praise Him too much, than to be wrong because my view was too low, and i did not praise Him enough

Waxing strong does also suggest a growth/increase... one does have to wonder (well, at least I do at times like right now) how much of His Own divinity Jesus was aware of as a child, for instance, even as a babe. That He waxed strong in Spirit? Hmmm, could it be His Own knowledge of Self in His humanity becoming ever more acquainted and unified with His perfection as God in the flesh as He matured to adulthood that waxed strong and grew? By the time He was 12 or 13, His body of knowledge was quite impressive

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

I believe what Isaiah has to say about the prophesy made to Ahaz suggests that Jesus was brought up in spirit and taught by God as we all are.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

 

[Platosgal]

Christ in human form HAD Absolute Knowledge IN his being
Because he was One with God the Father
However
As an example to us
He had Absolute Submission to the Father - and part of that submission to his Father God - he had Human limitations in space and time
In otherwords when he was on Earth
He was in our time and space - he was present
Therefore- his understanding was not limited as much as it was contained

 

[posthuman]

By the time He was 12 or 13, His body of knowledge was quite impressive

kind of an aside, but there's something i've always found really interesting here --

Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions, and all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.
(Luke 2:46)
​

he wasn't sitting there teaching. He was sitting there listening and asking questions
- the word 'answer' doesn't necessarily mean someone asks you something, and you address their question. it can also mean something closer to our word "reply" -- for example:

Now when the tempter came to Him, he said,
“If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”​

But He answered and said,
“It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”​

(Matthew 4:3-4)
​

notice that Satan didn't ask a question, but our translations say Jesus "answered"


so taking Luke 2:46 as it's written, the rabbis and wise men in the temple were astonished at His understanding because of the questions He asked. which means He sat with them and asked astonishing questions that showed understanding and wisdom far beyond what ordinary men have. these were teachers in the temple at Jerusalem, presumably among the wisest men in all of Israel, and they are amazed at just the questions He asks! i want to know what those questions were

this is my favorite kind of teaching, not browbeating you with "i say it's thus and this" but very poignant questions that really make you think and that no one would ask unless they really understand what they are talking about, that turn all your ideas upside down because you never even thought to ask them, and asking them challenges what you thought you knew. teaching by asking questions is really powerful because the one who learns from it isn't just memorizing a set of 'facts' that the teacher is claiming to be true by his authority; instead, all the learning is going on in your own mind, as you figure out the answers for yourself -- it's internalized, and when you get it, you really have gained some understanding, instead of just having a mental list of 'standard answers' to regurgitate that someone made you commit to memory.

Jesus is awesome ♥

 

[Magenta]

kind of an aside, but there's something i've always found really interesting here --

Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions, and all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers. ​

(Luke 2:46)​

​

he wasn't sitting there teaching. He was sitting there listening and asking questions
- the word 'answer' doesn't necessarily mean someone asks you something, and you address their question. it can also mean something closer to our word "reply" -- for example:

Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, ​

“If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”​

But He answered and said, ​

“It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”​

(Matthew 4:3-4)​

​

notice that Satan didn't ask a question, but our translations say Jesus "answered"


so taking Luke 2:46 as it's written, the rabbis and wise men in the temple were astonished at His understanding because of the questions He asked. which means He sat with them and asked astonishing questions that showed understanding and wisdom far beyond what ordinary men have. these were teachers in the temple at Jerusalem, presumably among the wisest men in all of Israel, and they are amazed at just the questions He asks! i want to know what those questions were

this is my favorite kind of teaching, not browbeating you with "i say it's thus and this" but very poignant questions that really make you think and that no one would ask unless they really understand what they are talking about, that turn all your ideas upside down because you never even thought to ask them, and asking them challenges what you thought you knew. teaching by asking questions is really powerful because the one who learns from it isn't just memorizing a set of 'facts' that the teacher is claiming to be true by his authority; instead, all the learning is going on in your own mind, as you figure out the answers for yourself -- it's internalized, and when you get it, you really have gained some understanding, instead of just having a mental list of 'standard answers' to regurgitate that someone made you commit to memory.

Jesus is awesome ♥

Yes, an answer is a response, whether to a question, or not. Notice too, that
Jesus' question/s to His parents at that same time is called a "statement":

“Why were you looking for Me?” He asked. “Did you not know that I had to be in My
Father’s house?” But they did not understand the statement He was making to them.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Yes, an answer is a response, whether to a question, or not. Notice too, that
Jesus' question/s to His parents at that same time is called a "statement":

“Why were you looking for Me?” He asked. “Did you not know that I had to be in My
Father’s house?” But they did not understand the statement He was making to them.

It was a question with a spiritual statement, meaning, the question evoked a spiritual truth. (which they did not perceive or understand.) It was still a question though.

Many questions are a means of eliciting the truth of matters. We understand this in the legal field and it's a technique I see throughout the Scriptures. God asks questions designed to state spiritual truths to us.

That's my interpretation.

 

[Magenta]

It was a question with a spiritual statement, meaning, the question evoked a spiritual truth. (which they did not perceive or understand.) It was still a question though.

Many questions are a means of eliciting the truth of matters. We understand this in the legal field and it's a technique I see throughout the Scriptures. God asks questions designed to state spiritual truths to us.

That's my interpretation.

Asking questions is also often employed as a teaching technique I would point this out to non-believers when they would say God did not know everything or He would not have asked where Adam was after Eve and he ate of the forbidden tree. Asking Adam where he was informed Adam that he was lost... that's my interpretation I believe God knew exactly where he was.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Asking questions is also often employed as a teaching technique I would point this out to non-believers when they would say God did not know everything or He would not have asked where Adam was after Eve and he ate of the forbidden tree. Asking Adam where he was informed Adam that he was lost... that's my interpretation I believe God knew exactly where he was...

Exactly. Socrates liked that method ... I hear. I'm not glorifying Socrates ...

 

[CS1]

It is said that absolute knowledge requires no faith.
So my question for you is did jesus walk by faith or knowledge?

interesting Question.


I think we can apply the possibility of the doctrine known as Kenosis. which is the 'self-emptying of Jesus' own will and becoming entirely receptive to God's divine will.

Jesus fully relied on the Holy Spirit when He was on earth. He out of obedience carried out the Father's will. There are scriptures where Jesus says I do not know but only my Father knows the day or hour. Jesus clearly has profound knowledge as HE was there when the foundation of the earth was laid meaning HE is eternal.

But The Spirit of Christ was going to experience something he never had before, coming into a hateful sinful world to be attacked abused, and murdered. And Trust the father through the whole process. IF there was any other way IF THERE WAS ANY OTHER WAY! I believe God would have done so. Jesus knew HIS Father and He trusted HIM through it all. That was the greatest display of faith for each of us today Jesus trust God we should also do the same Trust is faith.

 

[Magenta]

Exactly. Socrates liked that method ... I hear. I'm not glorifying Socrates ...

I understand The point is, that asking a question does not mean the person asking does not know the answer

They are as you have said, sometimes simply seeking to elicit a response.

 

[posthuman]

We understand this in the legal field

yes

my pastor often says that people with two kinds of training have a great advantage in understanding the scripture: law and mathematics - because much of the Bible is legal documents & proceedings, and series of axioms, theorems and proofs.

 

[posthuman]

I understand The point is, that asking a question does not mean the person asking does not know the answer

a good lawyer never asks a question in court that he or she doesn't already know the answer to

 

[posthuman]

Jesus fully relied on the Holy Spirit when He was on earth. He out of obedience carried out the Father's will. There are scriptures where Jesus says I do not know but only my Father knows the day or hour. Jesus clearly has profound knowledge as HE was there when the foundation of the earth was laid meaning HE is eternal.

it's 12-step Hebrew betrothal ceremony language. it's what the groom traditionally says if anyone asks him about the time he will come to snatch away the betrothed bride to take her to the place he has prepared at his father's house, for a wedding feast and the consummation of the marriage. it doesn't mean the groom doesn't know; it means the father of the groom is the one to talk to - and he isn't going to tell. the betrothed son hides knowledge of the timing of the wedding - which is why the 10 virgins are waiting not knowing when the groom will arrive, and why he arrives with a shout or blowing of a shofar in the middle of the night.

compare this, speaking of the Son:

He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.​

(Revelation 19:12) ​

​

is this something the omniscient Father does not know? the name of His own Son?
of course not. "He Himself" is God; both the Father and the Son are One. everything the Father knows, the Son knows - they are the same - and they/He know all things, at all times; He created time and sees all of it at once, like a map laid out on a table.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

yes

my pastor often says that people with two kinds of training have a great advantage in understanding the scripture: law and mathematics - because much of the Bible is legal documents & proceedings, and series of axioms, theorems and proofs.

It's funny you should mention that. I find I need to exercise a great deal of analytical and critical thinking to the passages. But, I don't find that understanding Scripture is any easier just because I analyze and critique it. I mull it over in my head a lot, but honestly, if I do understand something, it just comes to me out of the blue, nothing to do with my analysis.

I wanted to train to become a registered nurse my whole life, then in my senior year, for some inexplicable reason, I chose a different path. My parents were shocked, but you know how it is!

 

[CS1]

it's 12-step Hebrew betrothal ceremony language. it's what the groom traditionally says if anyone asks him about the time he will come to snatch away the betrothed bride to take her to the place he has prepared at his father's house, for a wedding feast and the consummation of the marriage. it doesn't mean the groom doesn't know; it means the father of the groom is the one to talk to - and he isn't going to tell. the betrothed son hides knowledge of the timing of the wedding - which is why the 10 virgins are waiting not knowing when the groom will arrive, and why he arrives with a shout or blowing of a shofar in the middle of the night.

compare this, speaking of the Son:

He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.​

(Revelation 19:12) ​

​

is this something the omniscient Father does not know? the name of His own Son?
of course not. "He Himself" is God; both the Father and the Son are One. everything the Father knows, the Son knows - they are the same - and they/He know all things, at all times; He created time and sees all of it at once, like a map laid out on a table.

I would say yes but it was metaphorically said by Jesus. However, in other places, Jesus said I do not know the day or the hour, in context to the end of days or this world system.

 

[pottersclay]

“All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away, But the word of the Lord endures forever.” Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you. Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”