When did (will) Jesus open the first seal in Rev. 6 and what does it represent?
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Jesus is not only the first, He is the ONLY man ever to raise from the dead by His own power. But to become the Redeemer also took living without sin!
He was not found worthy in that first search John watched that ended in failure. The REASON is, He was not yet risen from the dead. What John wrote was that He "prevailed" to become worthy. One thing Jesus prevailed over that no other man ever did: He rose from the dead by His own power.
Sorry, but you are told wrong.
In context, the first seal was opened as soon as Jesus ascended and sent down the Holy Spirit - then got the book. The first seal is the church sent out with the gospel.
Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil trying to stop the church. God limited him to 1/4th the earth.
It would be great if we had even one "original" written by one of the apostles. We don't. We have to make the best of what we have. In studying yesterday I discovered that many in the church did not at first accept John's Revelation of Jesus Christ. That surprised me. I would list it as one of the best books in the bible! It sums up the entire rest of the bible nicely!
I think you must be imagining this. But let's see your proof.
Strange: I have never heard this before. There is no "action" written on or about the 7th seal - only that it allows the book to be opened. Without much doubt, the Trumpet judgments (as a minimum) are written inside the book. However, I believe very strongly that the 7th seal is a marker for the START of the 70th week, and the 7th trumpet is the marker for the midpoint of the week. Therefore, I think you missed it on your very first point.
No, this is a great misunderstanding. You have not studied these cosmic signs. First, they will be seen over 7 years apart, and second, they are really different signs.
The sign at the 6th seal is the sign for the start of the Day of the Lord. (Rev. 6)
The sign after the trib is the sign for His coming. (Rev. 19)
Just this fact should prove they are two different signs for two different purposes.
The 6th seal sign: the sun appears black and the moon appears blood red.
WHEN does the sun appear black? During a total eclipse.
WHEN does the moon appear blood red? During a total eclipse.
Notice that the way one would KNOW the sun appears black is they SEE IT.
The way someone would know the moon appears blood red is, they SEE IT.
So this sign is a visible sun and moon.
Matthew 24: Darkened: Greek skotizō Strong's tells us:
to cover with darkness, to darken
to be covered with darkness, be darkened
... of heavenly bodies as deprived of light
In other words, this sign is speaking of total darkness: neither the sun or moon visible.
If we look at the vials of God's wrath, we find one of them is darkness - not even the stars are seen. This is the sign of His coming: LIGHTNING flashing across a black sky.
Joel 3 speaks of this sign also - the sign after the trib.
Joel 3 Hebrew word qadar To darken or to be dark
Joel 2 - the 6th seal sign: Hebrew word choshek: Darkness, night
Notice that Joel uses two different words for the two signs.
I repeat, these are TWO DIFFERENT signs for two different events. And the signs themselves are different. In the first, the 6th seal sign, both the sun and moon are visible. The "after the trib'" sign, it is total darkness, neither the sun or moon visible.
Two different Hebrew words, two different Greek words.
Finally, the 6th seal is before the book is opened to reveal the 70th week, but the Matthew 24 sign is after the days of GT are over. In other words, after the week is over. These two signs are divided in TIME by over 7 years so cannot be the same.
As I thought: your proof was no proof at all.
You are right, God's wrath will start at the 6th seal, right where John tells us.
You are mistaken: in 32 AD the church started taking the gospel to the world. There was MUCH overcoming at every new place. For example, study the life of Paul and ask yourself if he had things he had to overcome.
You should know, the Greek word behind "conquer" was translated as overcome in EVERY OTHER place in the KJV. Only here did they translate it as conquer. It was not a war. The church had to fight principalities and powers.
Please, don't just speak of unanswered questions: show them! I will do my best to answer.
Well, that's GREAT!!! = )
Except, earlier when I'd said those very points, you DISAGREED. lol
I'm thinking perhaps you didn't read carefully my [next to last??] post... because what I had said was:
IOW, 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 (taken/understood together) is saying that 4:1 onward IS THE [7] TRIB YRS.
You've not agreed with that, in past posts.
I DON'T agree with that 4:1 onward part. 4:1 is NOTHING MORE than John being called up to heaven so WE can read His book. WHEN? Around 95 AD. There is NOT ONE HINT in the words there that would hint a huge jump in time. How people find the start of the 70th week there is beyond me. Before the 70th week the rapture must take place and the Day of His wrath begin. And to be prefectly clear, the final church age martyr must be killed.
When God first chose to teach me about Revelation, His first words were - as I was reading Daniel 9:27:
You could find that exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in Revelation." I was instantly "in the spirit" and could not answer, but my spirit man could: he asked "how would I find that?"
Then Jesus explained how: look for the 5 mentions of the 3 1/2 year period of time and I would be very close to the "exact midpoint." Then, almost as an afterthought, He said,
"In fact, you could find the entire 70th week 'clearly marked.' "
When He said that, I suddenly KNEW the reason: God has used the same "marker" for the midpoint, the start and the end of the 70th week.
So I started an intense search, hours a day for months, as God began teaching me. I did not ask for it, but it happened just the same. '
Now, after the fact (it was years ago) I know the 70th week is marked by 7's. (How like God to do that!) The Day of the Lord starts at the 6th seal, the 70th week starts at the 7th. Then the midpoint is marked by the 7th trumpet, and the end of the week marked by the 7th vial. I found what He sent me to find.
After I had found the entire week "clearly marked," He began teaching me chapters 4 & 5.
Therefore, I disagree with your 4:1 theory. I know better!
Perhaps I only agreed with PART of your post. Which, in fact, I usually do.
Then, as you said, the "only thing in agreement is about the vision of JOHN be around 95 AD".
Next, you say that "A vision can be of the past, the present or the future - or all of them together. We determine the time of what is seen by things in the vision."
But what does the Word of God say? Revelation 1: v. 19 - Write the things which thou hast seen (year 95 AD), and the things which are (year 95 AD), and the things which shall be hereafter; (future, future exclusively, only and only future)
Comparing what you wrote with what was/is written in the Bible, the Holy Scriptures, Why don't you confirm what is written in the Bible, in the Scriptures? What does your spirit want with this mistake, making a falsification of the Word of God? and sowing a falsified message from Scripture?
You have already started your message with a misleading statement, worse, contradicting the Lord JESUS himself, twisting His words, twisting the Scriptures, or rather, falsifying the Word of God, falsifying the content of the message that the Father gave to JESUS. Rev.1:1
What you do is dangerous, it can cost the life of those who do what you are doing.
False premises, incurs false conclusions. It is very sad what you do trying to adapt the Word of God to interpretations not revealed by the Holy Spirit, but by speculations, and presumptions, and conjectures, and imaginations, and opinions, and so on.
All the discussions and posts about your apostate messages were a waste of time. Your false premises, incurs false conclusions. It is very sad and dangerous.
Be careful or take ready
Yes, very good. What prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. Great mystery. By the way, the Word was made flesh. Great mystery.
The Word said: Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:v.14. <---And the Word was made flesh. The Word is GOD. Great mystery.
resurrecting Himself is proof that He is God. it's demonstrating it - and God does not change: He is Alpha and Omega, First and Last, Beginning and End - there is no other, no one is before Him or after Him. so He is never 'not worthy' - no one can judge Him - and He is the Eternal Creator, outside of time.
so, this is not about God 'becoming better than He used to be' - that's nonsense. this is about Him 'not being found' and then being revealed. His coming as Messiah and reconciling us to Himself by offering Himself is a mystery kept hidden from the prophets and the angels until the time He appointed. there's your time reference: the revealing of "The Holy Thing" -- but this does not tell us how much time there is between the revealing of the Lamb and the unsealing of the scroll, which reveals "the evil thing"
the little horn is one of the ten and plucks up three horns before him, himself being the 8th.
he conquers 3 kings and takes dominion for himself, speaking blasphemies.
the white horse going out 'conquering' doesn't mean he's good. antichrist establishes a covenant making a semblance of peace for a brief time, seizing power, deceiving many, appearing 'even as an angel of light'
First, The little horn has nothing to do with the first seal. Period. Any connection is myth, not scripture.
Second, The "white horse" is to represent the church, not the Antichrist.
Third, in Revelation it is very probable that the Little Horn will pluck up three horns AFTER He is revealed.
Consider John's use of the color white: 17 times in Revelation, and 16 of those 17, used to represent righteousness or Godliness. Do you really think God would use white for anything evil once out of 17 times? That makes no sense.
Fourth, IN CONTEXT Jesus opened the first seal as soon as He ascended, so your theory is 2000 years off.
so He is never 'not worthy' This is nonsense! He had not "redeemed" anyone as a baby. He had not redeemed anyone as He was being whipped. He became the redeemer by His death and resurrection. Remember what Paul wrote - that if Jesus did not rise from the dead, we are still in our sins? Why do you think Jesus said, "It is finished?" He had finished His work as a man walking the earth. He had shed His blood for our sins. But at that time He still had to fulfill His promise of coming back after three days and nights.
Our Salvation absolutely depended on Him defeating death.
Anyway, we were speaking of His worthiness ONLY to take the book and open the seals. That particular job required His resurrection.
So the whole world thinks He was to write of the past, present and future, but you demand only future. Why don't you confirm what is REALLY written instead of your version of it?
Harsh words from someone who THINKS they know, when in fact they don't.
Perhaps you should learn that everyone reaps what they sow. Sow to the wind - what you just did - and you will read a whirlwind.
try using your own logic on yourself. 4 horses, 3 of them antichrist, but the 4th not because it's "white" ?
7 seals, 6 of them judgement, but not the first because "white" ?
Satan masquerades masquerades as an angel of light.
you have no basis for any of the things you're saying in this post other than your own private interpretations.
no, i do not believe at all that the OP is true. the words you attributed to God, i do not for one second believe came from God.