John Teaches Eternal Security; Demonic To Deny It

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Mar 4, 2020
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Are you referring to the banned members?

They are Ok. They went on to tour some other sites.
I wasn't talking about them. I just wanted to know what people thought for Bible discussion purposes. I have my views on those verses, just curious what others thought.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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John 3
even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He who believes on him is not judged: he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed on the name of the only Son of God. . . .

He who believes on the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say to you, He who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


John 6
Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life: he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes on me shall never thirst. But I said to you, that you have seen me, and yet believe not. All that which the Father gives me shall come to me; and him who comes to me I will in no wise cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that of all that which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who who beholds the Son
and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say to you, He who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever.

John 10
But you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and
I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . . .
Have you read 1 John, before you conclude anything about the salvation doctrine taught by John?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Interested in how anyone sees these two passages:

1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Hebrews 6:4-6
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
No contradictions here. They are saying the same thing...

1. Some have remained true.

2. Some where of us, but went away.

3. Some were pretenders from the get go.

Many soils and many seeds. Nothing complicated here. To be found in the Church at the end, one must remain in the Church. Thus saith the Word of God in the verses you posted.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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I wasn't talking about them. I just wanted to know what people thought for Bible discussion purposes. I have my views on those verses, just curious what others thought.
I must say that she made a brilliant analogy... They were with us and now they are not.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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No contradictions here. They are saying the same thing...

1. Some have remained true.

2. Some where of us, but went away.

3. Some were pretenders from the get go.

Many soils and many seeds. Nothing complicated here. To be found in the Church at the end, one must remain in the Church. Thus saith the Word of God in the verses you posted.
I agree that it is not a contradiction. I think one verse helps understand the other. If someone is capable of falling away then they were not true to begin with.

That's why I view Hebrews 6:4-6 as mostly rhetorical and not an actual possibility for true believers to fall away.

I think Hebrews 6 was addressed to Hebrews who had heard the gospel (keyword is they had tasted it) and could possibly reject it.

Like you said, there are different kinds of soil as Jesus explained in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:1-23).

The next verses demonstrate this concept:

Hebrews 6:7-8
7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

I think really it's just a round about saying that there's no other place to find repentance than in Jesus Christ. And that Jesus Christ is not like an animal sacrifice that can be crucified again and again every year.

Just trying to take the whole context in, who the audience was, and how they would have understood it. Just my take on it.
 
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No contradictions here. They are saying the same thing...

1. Some have remained true.

2. Some where of us, but went away.

3. Some were pretenders from the get go.

Many soils and many seeds. Nothing complicated here. To be found in the Church at the end, one must remain in the Church. Thus saith the Word of God in the verses you posted.
I would also like to add to my previous reply that by verse 9 it sounds like the author is entirely changing tones and pivoting to a different audience:

Because why would the author then turn around and say they're persuaded of better things that accompany salvation? Just seems like there are two audiences being addressed here.

Hebrews 6:9
9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
It's demonic to twist scripture to fit your narrative, infact that is exactly what Satan does, so it is the epitome of what demonic is.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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It's demonic to twist scripture to fit your narrative, infact that is exactly what Satan does, so it is the epitome of what demonic is.
Couldn't help but notice that you put that right after one of my posts. Do you think I am twisting scripture? If so, please say why.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
Couldn't help but notice that you put that right after one of my posts. Do you think I am twisting scripture? If so, please say why.
Not directed to you. Sorry if you thought that it was. That's not my intent. I haven't even read your post.
If I intend to respond to you directly I will quote you So you know I am addressing you.
I will not obfuscate or act indirectly.