Why Does Society Seem to Think That Cougars... Should Be Shot? (Older Woman and Younger Men.)

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

I was reading an article about the singer, Madonna, who was basically the original "Lady Gaga" when I was a kid, is apparently 62 years old -- and dating a 27-year-old.

The article then proceeded to talk about all the flack she is getting for this, and how society seems to readily accept 62-year-old men dating 27-year-old women, but for some reason, throw a fit when it's the other way around.

Why do you think this is?

I have had regular contact with older relatives all of my life, and in their social circles, the single women all say, "The men our age are looking for a nurse, or a purse." Apparently, they are claiming that men want someone to care for them as their health falters, and/or someone to support them and pay for their cost of living.

Now I can't speak for everyone, but I have also seen this in the churches I've attended (granted, the congregations are often mostly 60 and older,) as well as on Christian dating sites.

I don't want to be someone who roots my belief in stereotypes but I don't want to be completely naive to reality, either.

* If so many men are looking for younger partners and it has become somewhat accepted, why isn't the same thing considered acceptable for women?

(Or maybe it is, and I just haven't met the people who think so?)

Our whole society seems to be obsessed with youth, and even Christians are hopping on the bandwagon.

* Why should (or shouldn't) there be a double standards when it comes to whom the age brackets men and women look for?

As a woman who has experienced a little of both -- being asked out both by men who are 40 years older and a few who are 20 years younger -- I can see some of the pro's and con's to heading in either direction.

What about all of you?

I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences about this topic!

 

[phil36]

Your on a roll today with posts Soulsearch

I haven't really thought about it. But you are right as a culture we are obsessed with not growing old, and not doing it gracefully.

I think men see it as a trophy and probably woman see it as the same..makes them feel good ?? I don't know.

On a personal level I can't see how it would be possible to have anything in common with someone over ten years my junior. It's another hard one to answer, I would guess sex and trophy status plays a major part in these decisions. And to be honest I've only ever dated people from around my own age group. And not for a long time now lol.

I'm sure I may be over generalizing, and there will be cases where it is genuine love but I would hazard a guess that this is in the minority. I'm not saying in anyway it's wrong, but I suspect the real motives for it are not from a pure heart (again, generalizing culture).

 

[cinder]

I think a lot of it has to do with a long cultural history of men were expected to get a job that enabled them to support and raise a family and then sometime later settle down and have a family. So an older man who is successful and settles down with a young fertile woman still follows that basic pattern. But a young man who gets together with an older woman pretty much can't start a family, and may often be seen as not pursuing a worthwhile career either but instead just getting a woman to take care of him or be a substitute mom to extend his adolescence and lack of responsibility indefinitely.

Actually one of the reasons I would avoid much younger men (or at least seemingly younger) romantically is because I could see that relationship easily taking on a parent child dynamic and that's not what I'd want in a romantic partner that I hope would be my equal. Don't think it would be good for any of the parties concerned.

 

[seoulsearch]

Your on a roll today with posts Soulsearch

Thanks, Phil!

I just get in these moods... I'll read something or see something, and an idea (discussion) starts to form around it... I scribble a few notes... and then I have to rush to get the ideas out before they fly away forever.

The last time I went on a thread kick, I wrote 9 in one day, but only about 3 of them ever got people talking.

So you know the old saying: "Don't keep all your eggs in one basket -- just keep throwing them out there, because eventually, you actually might hit a target!" Er... or something like that.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply -- it's always good to see you.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If we read the Bible, David was given a young virgin to walk naked in front of him to warm his blood just before he died. The rascal never took her as his bride (learned his lesson with Bathsheba) but that is what they did.

The answer in my opinion is, the way the world is moving there should not be a difference between Madonna and "The Hef" having Playboy bunnies in his mansion. It is because we are in this world, full of sin that these things will become a debate. Madonna is just as wrong as Hugh Hefner because of their infidelity and not the age of their partners.

 

[seoulsearch]

If we read the Bible, David was given a young virgin to walk naked in front of him to warm his blood just before he died. The rascal never took her as his bride (learned his lesson with Bathsheba) but that is what they did.

The answer in my opinion is, the way the world is moving there should not be a difference between Madonna and "The Hef" having Playboy bunnies in his mansion. It is because we are in this world, full of sin that these things will become a debate. Madonna is just as wrong as Hugh Hefner because of their infidelity and not the age of their partners.

Very interesting post, Gandalf.

I could be wrong about this, but I was always under the impression that the only reason David didn't have sex with this young girl was because of his health issues... which may or may not have included, um... health issues that older men have... but again, I could be wrong.

Another reason why I posted this thread is because a favorite teacher of mine in high school was also a pastor -- whose wife was 10 years older than he was, and at the time, that really got tongues wagging.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Very interesting post, Gandalf.

I could be wrong about this, but I was always under the impression that the only reason David didn't have sex with this young girl was because of his health issues, but again, I could be wrong.

Another reason why I posted this thread is because a favorite teacher of mine in high school was also a pastor -- whose wife was 10 years older than he was, and at the time, that really got tongues wagging.

I am sure it did

 

[Ruby123]

Isnt the French president married to a woman 25 years older?

 

[seoulsearch]

Isnt the French president married to a woman 25 years older?

It's always interesting to me because of course, celebrities, politicians, and people in power/who have money just do whatever they want...

But what about the common everyday person, I wonder?

 

[Ruby123]

It's always interesting to me because of course, celebrities, politicians, and people in power/who have money just do whatever they want...

But what about the common everyday person, I wonder?

I was trying to think if I personally knew of any woman who had married or was in a relationship with a younger man and was just about to conclude with no when I remembered a woman that I once worked with.
Her husband had cheated on her with a much younger woman. She was devastated and they divorced. He moved in with this woman and she ended up taking all his money. When he realised what she was doing he rang up his ex wife and wanted to reconcile. She said no. She ended up going to some country club boot scooting as she loved dancing and country music. She became friends with a younger man twenty years her junior. She just thought of him as a dance partner as did he but eventually they ending up falling in love and now she is with him. Her ex husband is all alone. It does look strange to see them out and about holding hands but they both look very happy together.

 

[kinda]

Who cares what people think? People will always oppose what you do.

I called a lady I know a cougar, just out of fun, but don't think she took it as a joke. She was living with a guy unmarried who was 12 years younger than her. I told her, as long as it's legal. Maybe that got her thinking....

I don't really care, if your not secure in being yourself, maybe your not being yourself, but living your life through other's people's approval?!?!

People are getting divorced and are miserable, and when they are married they are miserable, if they just stayed single, maybe they would be happy?!?!

If you stay out of relationships, things are so much easier. I know people love dating, getting married, and so on, but from my perspective, relationships look like a nightmare.

Marriage is for rich people, that's my take.

 

[Live4Him]

Personally, I don't believe that age, in and of itself, is any issue whatsoever with God when it comes to the topic of marriage.

For example, when it comes to topic of an older man being married to a seemingly much younger woman, the story of Boaz and Ruth immediately comes to my mind.

In relation to Boaz, we read:

Ruth chapter 2

[1] And Naomi had a kinsman of her husband's, a mighty man of wealth, of the family of Elimelech; and his name was Boaz.
[2] And Ruth the Moabitess said unto Naomi, Let me now go to the field, and glean ears of corn after him in whose sight I shall find grace. And she said unto her, Go, my daughter.
[3] And she went, and came, and gleaned in the field after the reapers: and her hap was to light on a part of the field belonging unto Boaz, who was of the kindred of Elimelech.
[4] And behold, Boaz came from Bethlehem, and said unto the reapers, The LORD be with you. And they answered him, The LORD bless thee.
[5] Then said Boaz unto his servant that was set over the reapers, Whose damsel is this?
[6] And the servant that was set over the reapers answered and said, It is the Moabitish damsel that came back with Naomi out of the country of Moab:
[7] And she said, I pray you, let me glean and gather after the reapers among the sheaves: so she came, and hath continued even from the morning until now, that she tarried a little in the house.
[8] Then said Boaz unto Ruth, Hearest thou not, my daughter? Go not to glean in another field, neither go from hence, but abide here fast by my maidens:
[9] Let thine eyes be on the field that they do reap, and go thou after them: have I not charged the young men that they shall not touch thee? and when thou art athirst, go unto the vessels, and drink of that which the young men have drawn.

Boaz was a kinsman or relative on Naomi's now deceased husband (vs. 1), so it's likely that he was somewhere near the same age bracket as Naomi's deceased husband. We get further indications of this in that both Naomi (vs. 2) and Boaz (vs. 8) referred to Ruth as "my daughter", and that would indicate a decent age bracket between them and her. Boaz also told Ruth to "abide here fast by MY MAIDENS" (vs. 8), so this further indicates that she was noticeably younger than Boaz. Further still, Boaz "charged the YOUNG MEN" (vs. 9) that they should not touch Ruth, so this again indicates that she was noticeably younger than Boaz.

We also read;

Ruth chapter 3

[7] And when Boaz had eaten and drunk, and his heart was merry, he went to lie down at the end of the heap of corn: and she came softly, and uncovered his feet, and laid her down.
[8] And it came to pass at midnight, that the man was afraid, and turned himself: and, behold, a woman lay at his feet.
[9] And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid; for thou art a near kinsman.
[10] And he said, Blessed be thou of the LORD, my daughter: for thou hast shewed more kindness in the latter end than at the beginning, inasmuch as thou followedst not young men, whether poor or rich.
[11] And now, my daughter, fear not; I will do to thee all that thou requirest: for all the city of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman.
[12] And now it is true that I am thy near kinsman: howbeit there is a kinsman nearer than I.
[13] Tarry this night, and it shall be in the morning, that if he will perform unto thee the part of a kinsman, well; let him do the kinsman's part: but if he will not do the part of a kinsman to thee, then will I do the part of a kinsman to thee, as the LORD liveth: lie down until the morning.

Here, Boaz once again refers to Ruth as "my daughter" (vss. 10 & 11), which indicates a decent age difference between them, while commending her for "following not young men' (vs. 10), which again indicates that she was noticeably younger than Boaz. Please also notice what is said about "performing unto thee the part of a kinsman" (vs. 13) or "doing the part of a kinsman to thee" (vs. 13).

Under the law, if a man died, then his brother or nearest kinsman was to take his wife as his own to give her an inheritance among God's people. In the case of Boaz and Ruth, Boaz was an older man, BUT it could easily be a case where an older woman wound up married to a younger man instead, and we'll look at that momentarily. First, let's see the conclusion of the matter with Boaz and Ruth.

Ruth chapter 4

[9] And Boaz said unto the elders, and unto all the people, Ye are witnesses this day, that I have bought all that was Elimelech's, and all that was Chilion's and Mahlon's, of the hand of Naomi.
[10] Moreover Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of Mahlon, have I purchased to be my wife, to raise up the name of the dead upon his inheritance, that the name of the dead be not cut off from among his brethren, and from the gate of his place: ye are witnesses this day.
[11] And all the people that were in the gate, and the elders, said, We are witnesses. The LORD make the woman that is come into thine house like Rachel and like Leah, which two did build the house of Israel: and do thou worthily in Ephratah, and be famous in Bethlehem:
[12] And let thy house be like the house of Pharez, whom Tamar bare unto Judah, of the seed which the LORD shall give thee of this young woman.
[13] So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the LORD gave her conception, and she bare a son.
[14] And the women said unto Naomi, Blessed be the LORD, which hath not left thee this day without a kinsman, that his name may be famous in Israel.
[15] And he shall be unto thee a restorer of thy life, and a nourisher of thine old age: for thy daughter in law, which loveth thee, which is better to thee than seven sons, hath born him.
[16] And Naomi took the child, and laid it in her bosom, and became nurse unto it.
[17] And the women her neighbours gave it a name, saying, There is a son born to Naomi; and they called his name Obed: he is the father of Jesse, the father of David.

Boaz took "this young woman" (vs. 12), Ruth, to be "his wife" (vs. 13), and she conceived and bore a son, Obed. Obed was Jesse's father, or King David's grandfather (vs. 17), so Jesus' natural descendance came through this union (Matthew 1:5).

(continued in my next post)

 

[Live4Him]

(continued from my previous post)

When it comes to an older woman and a younger man, we have the following account to consider.

Genesis chapter 38

[1] And it came to pass at that time, that Judah went down from his brethren, and turned in to a certain Adullamite, whose name was Hirah.
[2] And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in unto her.
[3] And she conceived, and bare a son; and he called his name Er.
[4] And she conceived again, and bare a son; and she called his name Onan.
[5] And she yet again conceived, and bare a son; and called his name Shelah: and he was at Chezib, when she bare him.
[6] And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar.
[7] And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
[8] And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
[9] And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
[10] And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
[11] Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father's house, till Shelah my son be grown: for he said, Lest peradventure he die also, as his brethren did. And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.
[12] And in process of time the daughter of Shuah Judah's wife died; and Judah was comforted, and went up unto his sheepshearers to Timnath, he and his friend Hirah the Adullamite.
[13] And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep.
[14] And she put her widow's garments off from her, and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which is by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife.
[15] When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.
[16] And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?
[17] And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it?
[18] And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.
[19] And she arose, and went away, and laid by her vail from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood.
[20] And Judah sent the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman's hand: but he found her not.
[21] Then he asked the men of that place, saying, Where is the harlot, that was openly by the way side? And they said, There was no harlot in this place.
[22] And he returned to Judah, and said, I cannot find her; and also the men of the place said, that there was no harlot in this place.
[23] And Judah said, Let her take it to her, lest we be shamed: behold, I sent this kid, and thou hast not found her.
[24] And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.
[25] When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff.
[26] And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more.
[27] And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb.
[28] And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first,
[29] And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.
[30] And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

Here, we not only see how the older Tamar married the younger Onan after Er had died (vss. 6-10), but we also see that she should have been given the much younger Shelah as well who wasn't yet "grown" (vs. 11). Furthermore, the YOUNGER Tamar eventually conceived by the OLDER Judah, and Pharez was born. Again, Jesus' natural descendance came from this older man and younger woman union (Matthew 1:3).

My point?

That age alone doesn't seemingly matter to God when it comes to the topic of marriage.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

I believe the notion that men are always after the ladies has become common and widespread and accepted. Even if people think it's wrong it seems to be accepted as a truth. So why would an old man be any different? They're just continuing what they've always done.
On the other hand, despite an increased promiscuity among women, the way such women are viewed is still largely unchanged.
So, once again, things continue on. The woman who was a "slut" in her 20s is now labeled a cougar in her 50s. And neither term is viewed positively.

So in both cases, nothing changes, actually, men are viewed as always after women, whether 16 or 60. Women are viewed negatively for being promiscuous, and adding the idea of wanting younger men seems to make bad worse. Especially since this is the newest element in play. It's a change and change always starts with resistance. Give it time and people will stop caring.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

I know women who married men a few years younger, which is actually not that uncommon. I only can think of one couple (a previous co-worker and her husband) where there was huge age gap (she must have been near 70 and he in his mid/late 40s); she even said he is close to her son's age. They seemed happy and he didn't seem embarrassed or anything to be introduced as her husband. The fact remains that generally men want younger women and women want men around the same age/slightly older, so with some exceptions (mail order bride, etc.) neither party gets what they want.

 

[EnglishChick]

Very interesting post, Gandalf.

I could be wrong about this, but I was always under the impression that the only reason David didn't have sex with this young girl was because of his health issues... which may or may not have included, um... health issues that older men have... but again, I could be wrong.

Another reason why I posted this thread is because a favorite teacher of mine in high school was also a pastor -- whose wife was 10 years older than he was, and at the time, that really got tongues wagging.

But if he didn't have sex with her why did he require that she be a virgin? That's what I can't understand

 

[Lanolin]

Hey Everyone,

I was reading an article about the singer, Madonna, who was basically the original "Lady Gaga" when I was a kid, is apparently 62 years old -- and dating a 27-year-old.

The article then proceeded to talk about all the flack she is getting for this, and how society seems to readily accept 62-year-old men dating 27-year-old women, but for some reason, throw a fit when it's the other way around.

Why do you think this is?

I have had regular contact with older relatives all of my life, and in their social circles, the single women all say, "The men our age are looking for a nurse, or a purse." Apparently, they are claiming that men want someone to care for them as their health falters, and/or someone to support them and pay for their cost of living.

Now I can't speak for everyone, but I have also seen this in the churches I've attended (granted, the congregations are often mostly 60 and older,) as well as on Christian dating sites.

I don't want to be someone who roots my belief in stereotypes but I don't want to be completely naive to reality, either.

* If so many men are looking for younger partners and it has become somewhat accepted, why isn't the same thing considered acceptable for women?

(Or maybe it is, and I just haven't met the people who think so?)

Our whole society seems to be obsessed with youth, and even Christians are hopping on the bandwagon.

* Why should (or shouldn't) there be a double standards when it comes to whom the age brackets men and women look for?

As a woman who has experienced a little of both -- being asked out both by men who are 40 years older and a few who are 20 years younger -- I can see some of the pro's and con's to heading in either direction.

What about all of you?

I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences about this topic!

um.
thoughts...madonna is a diva who does what she likes. She never particularly cared what people (or society) thought of her. I recall she did a book called 'sex' with pictures of herself naked so people could buy it. But this was before she became a mother and wrote (or put her name to) picture books that werent called 'sex'.

apparently her own mother died when she was young so she felt she had to make her own way.

I mean its neither here nor there ---I still recall some of her 80s songs 'like a virgin' 'papa dont preach' 'material girl' that were at the time, controversial.

I would say if shes an artist she does things for arts sake. shes dated both women and men, had boytoys or toyboys, i think one of her songs lyrics material girl said 'experience has made me rich and now they're after me'

basically she can do what others dont really do because thats her philosophy, and it is no real surprise that she would date a younger man.

Anyone else would probably not have the funds?! I dont know why its frowned on but I think the older generation was very patriarchical and werent used to women having money or being the breadwinners, well before half of the men died in the wars...the age gap for both genders, whether older or younger has always been rather problematic for couples.

In dont know what makes up for the gap I am supposing its money or status but it could be something else.

 

[melita916]

Marriage is for rich people, that's my take.

As in marriage can be expensive?

 

[Runningman]

Hey Everyone,

I was reading an article about the singer, Madonna, who was basically the original "Lady Gaga" when I was a kid, is apparently 62 years old -- and dating a 27-year-old.

The article then proceeded to talk about all the flack she is getting for this, and how society seems to readily accept 62-year-old men dating 27-year-old women, but for some reason, throw a fit when it's the other way around.

Why do you think this is?

I have had regular contact with older relatives all of my life, and in their social circles, the single women all say, "The men our age are looking for a nurse, or a purse." Apparently, they are claiming that men want someone to care for them as their health falters, and/or someone to support them and pay for their cost of living.

Now I can't speak for everyone, but I have also seen this in the churches I've attended (granted, the congregations are often mostly 60 and older,) as well as on Christian dating sites.

I don't want to be someone who roots my belief in stereotypes but I don't want to be completely naive to reality, either.

* If so many men are looking for younger partners and it has become somewhat accepted, why isn't the same thing considered acceptable for women?

(Or maybe it is, and I just haven't met the people who think so?)

Our whole society seems to be obsessed with youth, and even Christians are hopping on the bandwagon.

* Why should (or shouldn't) there be a double standards when it comes to whom the age brackets men and women look for?

As a woman who has experienced a little of both -- being asked out both by men who are 40 years older and a few who are 20 years younger -- I can see some of the pro's and con's to heading in either direction.

What about all of you?

I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences about this topic!

I thought western society, on a whole, was trending more toward being more open minded about large age differences in relationships.

Though I suspect it's just more hollow virtue signalling to battle ageism by hyper politically correct people.

 

[Magenta]

It's always interesting to me because of course, celebrities, politicians, and people in power/who have money just do whatever they want...

But what about the common everyday person, I wonder?

Being a rich man seems to increase the chances of ending up with a trophy wife/arm candy.

Of course people tend to look upon such women somewhat suspiciously. $$$

Who was that blond actress who married like a ninety year old man?

Oh! Anna Nicole (Smith) redefined what it meant to be married to older men.
When she married her last husband, he was 89 years old, and she was 26.
At the time of his death, his net worth was in the range of $1.6 billion and he
had been married to Anna Nicole Smith for 14 months. According to Anna, while
they were together J. Howard promised to leave her half of his estate upon his death.
Even if that was a lofty promise, she at least expected to be taken care of in some way
by his will. She was left nothing. She was unfaithful but was still spending north of
six figures each month on her various expenses while married to him.

This (<= link) makes for an interesting read