Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[CS1]

OK. I got it.

It seems to be about 50-50 when you look at all transactions.

Some changed the word MAN to read "ANYONE".

The King James Version and other translations have rendered the second phrase of this passage: “If a man desire the office….” This has given strength to the argument that this passage applies explicitly to the male gender.

It has been many years since I studied Greek. I hated it then as much as I do now. However, it is my understanding that the Greek pronoun "tis" refers either to a male or a female.” Thus, the rendering of this word as “anyone” or “whoever” can be understood.

But then when we come to the phrase......"HE desires a good office" that word HE is MASCULINE.

Then we we come to verse #2....the word HUSBAND is the ANTECEDANT to the 1st verse word of MAN and gives CONTEXT the meaning.

interesting

 

[Major]

see, Major, you have no concept that the CHURCH, is the Body of Christ, not some building.

PICJAG,
101G.

Well 101G...........it has been an hour and I have seen nothing from you.

Are you hoping this will just go away and I will forget if you do not respond?

Was PAUL the Pastor of a church? WHat is the name of that church. What city is that church in.

Not what you thin or hope but the literal words from the Scriptures or an apology for calling me silly and an uneducated Christian which in fact YOU should never speak to anyone like that!

 

[Major]

interesting

Now as I say.....it has been 50 years since I did any Greek study and I am sure there are people here that can say either Yes or No. What I posted is what I think and it is what has been the standard for the church for about 1900 years. As far as I recal (google) the 1st woam ordained as a Pastor was in about 1860 in a Congregational church.

 

[CS1]

Now as I say.....it has been 50 years since I did any Greek study and I am sure there are people here that can say either Yes or No. What I posted is what I think and it is what has been the standard for the church for about 1900 years. As far as I recal (google) the 1st woam ordained as a Pastor was in about 1860 in a Congregational church.

I'm not one to take a hard line on those things. I am called to be an evangelist/ teacher. I want to see both men and women carry out the God calling and gifting. most have an issue when they see women at the pulpit, but if she said the same thing, not at the pulpit there would be no issue LOL.

 

[Aidan1]

Did you read my post about 1 Tim 3:1-11 and how other than a "husband must not be a polygamist," the Greek, the language the New Testament was written in, is NOT written to men, but purposely written in language that is inclusive. You are probably hearing the words in your head "male" or "man" wrongly, because that is what you learned years ago. Because Greek simply does NOT say men in this passage.

I can rattle off the KJV Lord's prayer in seconds, but knowing that their are translational issues, I don't. I translated the Lord's prayer into English from Greek, and the words are correct, even if I have to say it slower, because I didn't say it in school daily for 9 years, just the KJV. It is not automatic like KJV, because I learned it as a child, and repeated it millions of times!

Try and open your closed mind. You have always been respectful to me, and been a good friend. I don't want to get into a fight with you. But the truth is, there are no male nouns or pronouns in that passage. And it's hard to translate into English when most of our nouns and pronouns are gendered. We don't even have "Man" as a a non gendered word like you do in German.

I would challenge you to take some Greek courses. Greek is very similar to German, using cases for nouns/pronouns and adjectives. Right now, it's hard to understand a language with totally different letters. But if you stick to it, I would hope we could discuss it on even grounds. As it is, a lot of men are quoting Bibles that have so many added gender words, especially "men or male", which are just not there in any of the Greek texts! Let me know when we can both discuss the Greek, without a gender bias. I would love to explain this again, and have you see your mistake! No words like Men or he in this passage! No, I am not reading into the text at all. I am reading the words that are there. If anyone is putting their spin on this, it is men who don't want women to be preachers, teachers or leaders in Church! And they accomplish this by bad translations, which reaffirm their bias, and men don't care as long as no woman is ahead of him! That's a word called misogyny! Jesus was never a misogynist, he must be disappointed to see so many legalistic men, using Bibles that are translated wrong to support their untenable theories!

Dear Angela, yes you are right. The Word in 1.Tim 3,1 is written in neutrum gender. This was in old greec and Roman useual. Many from this neutrum gender word were later changed in masculine ( i suppose because of the context it was better to understand) In case of our text, the context which follows, cant open you the view that a woman is adressed. And this I dont understand in your Argumentation.
The keyword is here husband in vers two.
The whole passage vers 1 till 7 is combined together.
In the greec and Roman culture where it was a monogamie, was it to to have in some circles normal to have an affair with other woman out of the marrige. Also was it practised to divorce a woman and remarry.
All things which an candidat for an eldest/bishop should not be found in.
Also was it the duty of the man to stand before the household. An unmarried man had no household. And a woman would also not stand before the household.
And if you then add this with that what the bible says about man and woman, husband and wife. Then it is clear, that a woman is not selectet for to be over man. What not means that a man should treat woman in the way he did till today. For this Ephesians 5 clear says how it should be.
Thats what I found.

 

[101G]

well remember that preaching is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit which all of the fivefold ministries do.

Preacher is not an office it is a name for one who preaches which is an action. we are all called to preach the gospel.

there is only one preacher in the CHURCH of Christ, and that's the Lord HIMSELF.....

PICJAG,
101G

 

[101G]

Your pride just will not allow you to admitt that you were wrong. You have been called out to support what you said and what you called another person and you have been found to be wanting!!!

The fact that YOU have not posted the SPECIFIC Scripture saying that Paul was church Pastor means that there is not one.

All you had to do was to "google" it and you would have seen that what I posted was correct and you were wrong.

What you posted above is again....."Rationalizations". No more and no less.

You posted 1 Corinthians 13:2..........
"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

The gift of prophesy you posted in RED does not support him as a Pastor.
The words you posted in Red...UNDERSTANING all MYSTERIES does not contain the words of him as a PASTOR.

YOU want them to. YOU need for them to say that but the fact is they do not say that now do they????

I asked you to post the SPECIFIC words that Paul was a church pastor. I know exactly what the above Scripture says and again. where in that Scriptures are the words that Paul was a PASTOR??????

see, you don't READ, listen, "Paul wore many hats". see, how you even got that wrong? it's pitiful how christians just be in the dark so much, just pitiful.

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[CS1]

there is only one preacher in the CHURCH of Christ, and that's the Lord HIMSELF.....

PICJAG,
101G

I am not going to over-spiritualize with you or debate an allegorical position. the great Commission was not given to Jesus it was given to HIS Church. Jesus said YOU preach the Gospel to every creature. Marck 16:15

and other places. (Mar 16:14–18; Luk 24:36–49; Jhn 20:19–23; Act 1:6–8 )

 

[CS1]

see, you don't READ, listen, "Paul wore many hats". see, how you even got that wrong? it's pitiful how christians just be in the dark so much, just pitiful.

PICJAG,
101G.

you are being immature

 

[101G]

the point that it seems you will not concede is the bible did not call Paul or paul did not say " I am a Pastor'. Paul said I am an Apostle.

My GOD how hard is it for people to understand... listen are you reading his epistles now... today? well he's feeding you. just as many say, "Jesus never said he was God", well how many many ways did you tell you that he is.... it's just uncompensable how christians can be so lacking in common sense... I am schock. it's just amazing how Paul Pastored to the current churches and he was not even there in person, HENCE THE LETTERS to theses churches.... my oh my....,

PICJAG,
101G

 

[Major]

My GOD how hard is it for people to understand... listen are you reading his epistles now... today? well he's feeding you. just as many say, "Jesus never said he was God", well how many many ways did you tell you that he is.... it's just uncompensable how christians can be so lacking in common sense... I am schock. it's just amazing how Paul Pastored to the current churches and he was not even there in person, HENCE THE LETTERS to theses churches.... my oh my....,

PICJAG,
101G

Just post ONE Scripture that says he was a church Pastor and the debate would end. WHY don't you do that????

 

[Major]

there is only one preacher in the CHURCH of Christ, and that's the Lord HIMSELF.....

PICJAG,
101G

I wonder then who Billy Sunday was or for that matter......
Johnathan Edwards
John Piper
Billy Graham
J Vernon Magee
Oliver B. Green
John Walvoord

Weren't all of those men preachers of Christ?

 

[101G]

I am not going to over-spiritualize with you or debate an allegorical position. the great Commission was not given to Jesus it was given to HIS Church. Jesus said YOU preach the Gospel to every creature. Marck 16:15

and other places. (Mar 16:14–18; Luk 24:36–49; Jhn 20:19–23; Act 1:6–8 )

well you cannot go anywhere unless the Lord Jesus commission you, and empower you in the baptism of the THE "Holy Spirit". listen, are you really getting this? we are to present our bodies as living sacrifices, we're his HANDS, and FEETS.

understand you cannot preach teach or do anything without him........ are you really understanding this?

PICJAG,
101G

 

[101G]

you are being immature

HOW?

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[101G]

Just post ONE Scripture that says he was a church Pastor and the debate would end. WHY don't you do that????

1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

do a BISHOP "TEACH", and Preach meaning feeding the flock, lets see, 1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"

see you have no clue as to what is the "WORK" of a Pastor, Bishop, Preacher, Teacher, Overseer. you thik there is a division in the things each do.... ERROR. again you Ignorance shows....

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[101G]

I wonder then who Billy Sunday was or for that matter......
Johnathan Edwards
John Piper
Billy Graham
J Vernon Magee
Oliver B. Green
John Walvoord

Weren't all of those men preachers of Christ?

just a man, an ambassador of Christ.as other who was appointed by the Lord Jesus. open your mouth..... "I will speak".

now listen real Good, 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment."

now this, 1 Corinthians 7:10 "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:"

who gave the command? Paul, or Billy Sunday? .... thought so. you guys just don't get it. an ambassador do not speak of himself, but what the Lord GIVES them.

it's amazing, when the phrase that says, "ignorance is bliss"..... (smile)...

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[101G]

It's amazing, the Lord Jesus the Christ is teaching right in front of people eyes, yet they see not, nor hear. scripture, Isaiah 44:18 "They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand."

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[CS1]

well you cannot go anywhere unless the Lord Jesus commission you, and empower you in the baptism of the THE "Holy Spirit". listen, are you really getting this? we are to present our bodies as living sacrifices, we're his HANDS, and FEETS.

understand you cannot preach teach or do anything without him........ are you really understanding this?

PICJAG,
101G

You are just arrogant and unruly. Where done, you and I. You seem not to know how to be open to other thoughts and clearly don't know what is an application which can be many.

 

[CS1]

HOW?

PICJAG,
101G.

never mind I am done with this

 

[Major]

just a man, an ambassador of Christ.as other who was appointed by the Lord Jesus. open your mouth..... "I will speak".

now listen real Good, 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment."

now this, 1 Corinthians 7:10 "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:"

who gave the command? Paul, or Billy Sunday? .... thought so. you guys just don't get it. an ambassador do not speak of himself, but what the Lord GIVES them.

it's amazing, when the phrase that says, "ignorance is bliss"..... (smile)...

PICJAG,
101G.

Oh.....WE all get my friend. Believe me....we all get it.