Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Major]

Yes but the church has already fallen away from the bible in the matter of church leadership, in fact the bible pattern for church government was not recovered at the Reformation.

Praise the Lord we had new light, great doctrines were brought to the fore, I give thanks for the reformers. But the new wine was poured into old wineskins, the priest became pastor, the bishop became moderator or some such and the cardinal became general secretary.

That is not the bible pattern for church leadership, the results are plain for everybody to see, we have men in places of leadership who were ordained by men but neither called or ordained by God. THAT is the real problem.
.

You said...........
"Yes but the church has already fallen away from the bible in the matter of church leadership."

So then you are agreeing with what I have said. Why then the argument ??? It seems to me you are saying that the Pentanolal religion has lead the way away from the Scriptures which is what I said.
So why argue??????

You said.........
"That is not the bible pattern for church leadership, the results are plain for everybody to see, we have men in places of leadership who were ordained by men but neither called or ordained by God. THAT is the real problem.

AMEN. That is not a new revelation. Azur was a false prophet. Hananiah was a false prophet. Zedekiah was a false prophet. I could name hundreds of false prophets that go back 5 or 6 thousand years.

However......THAT fact does not dimish the fact that GOD SAID that it is MAN who must be the pastor of the New Test. church.


You said...........
"Given the choice you would take a called woman over a man not called to pastor."

Well my friend, that is what life is all about...CHOICES. Personally.... I would choose tofollow the Word of God and the day that the church I attended called a woman to be the pastor, would be the day that I left that church because that church would not then be in the will of God.

Your choice is yours!

 

[CS1]

first thanks for the reply, so scriptures are not proof enough?

see, Major is in deep delusion, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."
2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"
2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

see when people reject the word of God, the SCRIPTURES", they are doomed.

PICJAG,
101G

I want to be clear scripture is always enough, but man does get it wrong. They were wrong on slavery, legalism, segregation, racism, force conversion of natives, and many many more things; as today many churches are wrong on marriage as to change it from what God intended it to be.

Paul called Himself an Apostle and never called HImself a pastor. Nowhere in the word of God will you find Paul saying " I am what I am a pastor but the lest of them". it's not there. Did he do the work of one yes sir, he did. Do women today do the work of a pastor? yes, they do.

are women to be pastors? no, they are not. Yet, God has still used them in this context today I think because men are wimps.

I think you both are correct but wrong because you have resulted to anger

BUT I could be wrong that is something many will not say here and I wonder why?

 

[Major]

I have not found averse that says Paul was pastor you are right just like I have not found any verse that says " a Pastor must be a man"

I think the knife cuts both ways does it not? There are those who use Bishop in context to PASTORS have to be men and not women.

I would suggest the 101G has done the same thing that others did use scripture to show Paul was a pastor as those used the term Bishop to reference pastors.

Thank you for your honest answer!

I agree......however, 1 Timothy 3:1-2 says in several translations............
King James Bible
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

New King James Version
This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.

New American Standard Bible
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

NASB 1995
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

NASB 1977
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

Amplified Bible
This is a faithful and trustworthy saying: if any man [eagerly] seeks the office of overseer (bishop, superintendent), he desires an excellent task.

American Standard Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This is a trustworthy saying, that if a man desires Eldership, he desires a good work.

Douay-Rheims Bible
A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

English Revised Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

Good News Translation
This is a true saying: If a man is eager to be a church leader, he desires an excellent work.

Are ALL of these translations wrong???

Then what do you do with verse #2 of 1 Tmothy 3.
"The bishop must be the HUSBAND of one wife".

HUSBAND in the Greek is a masculine pronoun and is the ANTECEDANT to the 1st verse where the CONTEXT is MAN.
Husband points to the subject which is MAN and God said the Husband must be a MAN.

 

[Major]

so we can take this as you have no REBUTTAL? thought so, you been checkmated, in your call out.... YIKES!.

PICJAG,
101G.

NO REBUTTAL?????????

Who are you kidding????

Every single person reading what is being says KNOWS that there is not one SINGLE SCRIPTURE that specifically says that Paul was a church pastor!!! NOT ONE!!!

But you said I was SILLY, an IGNORANT CHRISTIAN !!!!

My rebuttal was to call you out and demand that YOU prove what you said!

Now........DO IT! Post what you said and show me the SPECIFIC Scripture to support what YOU SAID!!!!!!

PUT UP or SHUT UP!

If I am wrong I will be the 1st to admitt it. Will YOUR pride keep you from doing the same thing or are you just all talk????

 

[Major]

I want to be clear scripture is always enough, but man does get it wrong. They were wrong on slavery, legalism, segregation, racism, force conversion of natives, and many many more things; as today many churches are wrong on marriage as to change it from what God intended it to be.

Paul called Himself an Apostle and never called HImself a pastor. Nowhere in the word of God will you find Paul saying " I am what I am a pastor but the lest of them". it's not there. Did he do the work of one yes sir, he did. Do women today do the work of a pastor? yes, they do.

are women to be pastors? no, they are not. Yet, God has still used them in this context today I think because men are wimps.

I think you both are correct but wrong because you have resulted to anger

BUT I could be wrong that is something many will not say here and I wonder why?

YOU are 100% correct and your post has in fact convicted me.

I have responded to 101 with anger. I do not take kindly to being called "silly" or an "Ignorant Christian". I did my best to be calm but
My old self came up and bit me in the butt.

I apologize for my words of anger to anyone that was offended by them.

 

[101G]

Paul called Himself an Apostle and never called HImself a pastor.

Paul wore many hats, teacher, preacher, prophet, and pastor/overseer/Bishop

well Pastore is a preacher and teacher, who also can be a prophet.... see 1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

here in this one verse we find out that he is a Prophet, and a Pastor/Bishop/Overseer.

now, a "PREACHER", and TEACHER"1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

as the pastor he had the rule, as seen in all his epistles.

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[101G]

NO REBUTTAL?????????

Who are you kidding????

Every single person reading what is being says KNOWS that there is not one SINGLE SCRIPTURE that specifically says that Paul was a church pastor!!! NOT ONE!!!

But you said I was SILLY, an IGNORANT CHRISTIAN !!!!

My rebuttal was to call you out and demand that YOU prove what you said!

Now........DO IT! Post what you said and show me the SPECIFIC Scripture to support what YOU SAID!!!!!!

PUT UP or SHUT UP!

If I am wrong I will be the 1st to admitt it. Will YOUR pride keep you from doing the same thing or are you just all talk????

see post #2289.

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[101G]

see, Major, you have no concept that the CHURCH, is the Body of Christ, not some building.

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[CS1]

Thank you for your honest answer!

I agree......however, 1 Timothy 3:1-2 says in several translations............
King James Bible
This is a true saying, If a man(does this include women too) desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

New King James Version
This is a faithful saying: If a man(does this include women too) desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.

New American Standard Bible
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man(does this include women too) aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

NASB 1995
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man(does this include women too) aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

NASB 1977
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man(does this include women too) aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

Amplified Bible
This is a faithful and trustworthy saying: if any man(does this include women too) [eagerly] seeks the office of overseer (bishop, superintendent), he desires an excellent task.

American Standard Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man(does this include women too) seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This is a trustworthy saying, that if a man desires Eldership, he desires a good work.

Douay-Rheims Bible
A faithful saying: if a man(does this include women too) desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

English Revised Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

Good News Translation
This is a true saying: If a man(does this include women too) is eager to be a church leader, he desires an excellent work.

Are ALL of these translations wrong???

Then what do you do with verse #2 of 1 Tmothy 3.
"The bishop must be the HUSBAND(does this include women too should have only one husband) of one wife".

HUSBAND in the Greek is a masculine pronoun and is the ANTECEDENT to the 1st verse where the CONTEXT is MAN.
Husband points to the subject which is MAN and God said the Husband must be a MAN.

just one question I will put in ( ? ) in your post

 

[CS1]

see, Major, you have no concept that the CHURCH, is the Body of Christ, not some building.

PICJAG,
101G.

well remember that preaching is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit which all of the fivefold ministries do.

Preacher is not an office it is a name for one who preaches which is an action. we are all called to preach the gospel.

 

[Major]

Paul wore many hats, teacher, preacher, prophet, and pastor/overseer/Bishop

well Pastore is a preacher and teacher, who also can be a prophet.... see 1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

here in this one verse we find out that he is a Prophet, and a Pastor/Bishop/Overseer.

now, a "PREACHER", and TEACHER"1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

as the pastor he had the rule, as seen in all his epistles.

PICJAG,
101G.

Your pride just will not allow you to admitt that you were wrong. You have been called out to support what you said and what you called another person and you have been found to be wanting!!!

The fact that YOU have not posted the SPECIFIC Scripture saying that Paul was church Pastor means that there is not one.

All you had to do was to "google" it and you would have seen that what I posted was correct and you were wrong.

What you posted above is again....."Rationalizations". No more and no less.

You posted 1 Corinthians 13:2..........
"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

The gift of prophesy you posted in RED does not support him as a Pastor.
The words you posted in Red...UNDERSTANING all MYSTERIES does not contain the words of him as a PASTOR.

YOU want them to. YOU need for them to say that but the fact is they do not say that now do they????

I asked you to post the SPECIFIC words that Paul was a church pastor. I know exactly what the above Scripture says and again. where in that Scriptures are the words that Paul was a PASTOR??????

 

[Major]

just one question I will put in ( ? ) in your post

What does that mean......"I will put it in your post" mean?

 

[CS1]

Paul wore many hats, teacher, preacher, prophet, and pastor/overseer/Bishop

well Pastore is a preacher and teacher, who also can be a prophet.... see 1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

here in this one verse we find out that he is a Prophet, and a Pastor/Bishop/Overseer.

now, a "PREACHER", and TEACHER"1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

as the pastor he had the rule, as seen in all his epistles.

PICJAG,
101G.

the point that it seems you will not concede is the bible did not call Paul or paul did not say " I am a Pastor'. Paul said I am an Apostle.

we can say all offices run together but they are specific to the Holy Spirit or they would not be label as a gift of Christ to the church known as the didōmi or "doma "in the Greek the gift of Christ to the church. these are separate

from those spiritual gifts in 1cor 12:4-10 diversities of gifts,

to be used in the church setting

then we have the Eph 4:11 these are equipping gifts called "doma"
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1cor 12
known as pneumatikos gifts of the Holy Spirt.



there are gifts for the body of Christ to teach them and prepare them for ministry there are the gifts to be used in the church setting

 

[Major]

see, Major, you have no concept that the CHURCH, is the Body of Christ, not some building.

PICJAG,
101G.

YOU did not answer the question posed to you.

WHEN are you going to do that. In the time it took you to post what you just did you could have done what was aked of you......
or you could have apologized for calling someone silly and an uneducated Christian.

I am still waiting!!!!

 

[Major]

see post #2289.

PICJAG,
101G.

see post #2291!

Still waiting!

 

[CS1]

What does that mean......"I will put it in your post" mean?

I put in you post 2003 which you can see inpost 2309 by me

( does this include women)where is said, men? Or is it just for men only?

 

[Major]

I put in you post 2003 which you can see inpost 2309 by me

( does this include women)where is said, men? Or is it just for men only?

Remember....I am just an old country boy from Alabama and I am not the best at computer transactions.

 

[CS1]

Remember....I am just an old country boy from Alabama and I am not the best at computer transactions.

no problem I love country folk

 

[Major]

I put in you post 2003 which you can see inpost 2309 by me

( does this include women)where is said, men? Or is it just for men only?

OK. I got it.

It seems to be about 50-50 when you look at all transactions.

Some changed the word MAN to read "ANYONE".

The King James Version and other translations have rendered the second phrase of this passage: “If a man desire the office….” This has given strength to the argument that this passage applies explicitly to the male gender.

It has been many years since I studied Greek. I hated it then as much as I do now. However, it is my understanding that the Greek pronoun "tis" refers either to a male or a female.” Thus, the rendering of this word as “anyone” or “whoever” can be understood.

But then when we come to the phrase......"HE desires a good office" that word HE is MASCULINE.

Then we we come to verse #2....the word HUSBAND is the ANTECEDANT to the 1st verse word of MAN and gives CONTEXT the meaning.

 

[Major]

no problem I love country folk

Then you would love me and my dogs!