Is the law a blessing or a curse?

[eternally-gratefull]

I am NOT going to the law for forgiveness and you are in error to accuse me of such.

see there you go lieing about me again, I made no such claim, I said you keep,going to the law. The words for forgiveness never enter my speaking or my typing,

as usual, you twist what people say to make them appear to be guilty when it is you who are guilty

A serious error on your part.

the only error is on you, I said you go to the law to find obedience

here I will require my words for you

If your looking to the law to find obedience you will not find it. Look to Christ. and obey the law of Love

repent of your false accusations, and maybe then we have can a civilized discussion

I am obeying the Lord when the Lord tells me to repent of my sins. The law teaches me what is sin and what I need to repent of.

You seem to want to tell me what to do about being a Christian. So let me tell you what to do, instead. Stop your preaching about how awful it is to want to repent of sin. Scripture tells you it is wrong to do that. “Whosoever shall in his practice violate but one of the commandments of God, which the Pharisees judge of the least, and which possibly are so compared with others, and shall teach men that they may do as he doth, making such false interpretations of the law as may warrant such a practice, he shall be accounted of the least value and esteem… and shall never come into the kingdom of glory…”

he law does not teach you what sin is, it gives you a few examples, I can keep the law written word for word and still be in sin.

your the one who falsly interprets what everyone says to you, and falsly interprets the law

jesus said the law says,...but I tell you...he did that to prove the law is not given to teach how to be sanctified or how to overcome sin, it was given as a tutor only to lead us to christ

when will you repent?

 

[Blik]

see there you go lieing about me again, I made no such claim, I said you keep,going to the law. The words for forgiveness never enter my speaking or my typing,

as usual, you twist what people say to make them appear to be guilty when it is you who are guilty


the only error is on you, I said you go to the law to find obedience

here I will require my words for you



repent of your false accusations, and maybe then we have can a civilized discussion


he law does not teach you what sin is, it gives you a few examples, I can keep the law written word for word and still be in sin.

your the one who falsly interprets what everyone says to you, and falsly interprets the law

jesus said the law says,...but I tell you...he did that to prove the law is not given to teach how to be sanctified or how to overcome sin, it was given as a tutor only to lead us to christ

when will you repent?

Why do you keep scolding me fore goin to the law for guidance? Is it falsely interpreting the law to listen to what the law tells us is sin?

Scripture tells us to repent, that would mean we have to know what sin is or how could we repent? Yet you scold and scold about law. What exactly do you have against law,, what is bringing about all this scolding?

 

[Blik]

Although directed at the Jews then, it applies to all, now...

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:3-4)

As long as you are trying to keep the law, you are not submitting to the righteousness of God. You are rebelling.

You are accusing me of rebelling against the righteousness that Christ has given me as a free gift because I want to live in this righteousness. That does not make sense to me. I want the righteousness of Christ, not the disobedience of sin. I must choose what I want, either to choose to want to live in sin or choose to want to live in the righteousness Christ gave me. Do you think it would be more right to choose sin than to chose to thank the Lord for what He has done for me?

 

[Blik]

see there you go lieing about me again, I made no such claim, I said you keep,going to the law. ?

Could you explain why I am scolded so for going to the law?

 

[ewq1938]

Could you explain why I am scolded so for going to the law?

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1

if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law - Galatians 5:18

the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56

the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15

we are not under the law- Romans 6:15

ye also are become dead to the law - Romans 7:4

we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6

we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6

Jesus made us free from the law of sin and death- Romans 8:2

 

[Gideon300]

Do any of the Christians here see the law as a blessing and not a curse? The 119th Psalm says it is a blessing, do you agree?

Here are some of my thoughts about what scripture tells us about the law:

There are many posts speaking against the law, but both our secular and spiritual life is governed by law.

We accept the secular law as good, yet there is no forgiveness for disobeying those laws, and there is forgiveness for disobeying the laws given us by the Lord. Yet even those who live a life forgiven by the lord and made righteous through Him complain and bring out that the laws are a curse because unforgiven disobedience has a curse of death.

The spiritual laws need to be obeyed through the heart, and not through legalism. Some Christians believe the Lord cancelled all the law He gave us because of this. They say the law is only a schoolmaster, and we do not need it any more. Do you think this?

I wrestled with the tension between law and grace as a young Christian. I was being condemned by a Pastor who thought that everyone should obey his every word. He did a series on Exodus, emphasising how the rebellious perished in the wilderness. I sought the Lord and studied the Word. I discovered that Lord Jesus is the true Shepherd, that the Law indeed leads us to Christ and that I cannot be justified by obeying the Law. I found out that there is a new law, the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ. The Lord told me to leave that church. A few years later, it imploded.

A Jewish Christian, Professor James Tour, has a great article on his web site that covers the subject. Also, Juan Carlos Ortiz likewise covers the issues biblically, clearly and in a way easy to understand.

Jim Tour is one of the world's leading scientists. He is a keen evangelist and preacher. Ortiz wrote "The Cry of the Human Heart", a brilliant read if you can find a copy.

 

[peldom10]

Without...how would we maintain righteousness?

 

[crossnote]

You are accusing me of rebelling against the righteousness that Christ has given me as a free gift because I want to live in this righteousness. That does not make sense to me. I want the righteousness of Christ, not the disobedience of sin. I must choose what I want, either to choose to want to live in sin or choose to want to live in the righteousness Christ gave me. Do you think it would be more right to choose sin than to chose to thank the Lord for what He has done for me?

Please chill. I prefaced my statement with a conditional clause, "As long as you are trying to keep the law, ..."
It only applies as long as.
Are you saying that sums up your situation?

 

[ewq1938]

Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

 

[ewq1938]

A Christian needs to know what God's law is currently. If you are stuck at Sinai you won't know what God's law was at the time when Paul said positive things about God's law. He was speaking of new covenant law NOT old covenant law which he condemns over and over. There are new laws, moral laws...no ceremonial or food laws, no animal sacrifices, and no slavery etc. It's like thinking the law in 1776 is the law to be followed in 2021. Ignoring there are new laws and that many old laws no longer exist is a big mistake. Stop clinging to the past and catch up to the New Covenant law! God replaced the old law with new law! Amen!

 

[ewq1938]

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

So we being dead to the law frees us from the law as many scriptures affirm. The old law is dead, we are then in response dead to that law and free to re-marry a new husband and law...the law of Christ of the new covenant being no longer bound to the old dead law.

Clarke:

Romans 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren - This is a parallel case. You were once under the law of Moses, and were bound by its injunctions; but now ye are become dead to that law - a modest, inoffensive mode of speech, for, The law, which was once your husband, is dead; God has determined that it shall be no longer in force; so that now, as a woman whose husband is dead is freed from the law of that husband, or from her conjugal vow, and may legally be married to another, so God, who gave the law under which ye have hitherto lived, designed that it should be in force only till the advent of the Messiah; that advent has taken place, the law has consequently ceased, and now ye are called to take on you the yoke of the Gospel, and lay down the yoke of the law; and it is the design of God that you should do so.

Gill:

are become dead to the law, and that to them, as in Rom_7:6, and can have no more power over them than a law can have over dead persons, or a dead abrogated law can have over living ones. They are represented as "dead to sin", and "dead with Christ", Rom_6:2; and here, "dead to the law", as in Gal_2:19, and consequently cannot be under it; are out of the reach of its power and government, since that only has dominion over a man as long as be lives the law is dead to them; it has no power over them, to threaten and terrify them into obedience to it; nor even rigorously to exact it, or command it in a compulsory way


Matthew Henry:


I. Our first marriage was to the law, which, according to the law of marriage, was to continue only during the life of the law. The law of marriage is binding till the death of one of the parties, no matter which, and no longer. The death of either discharges both.

 

[crossnote]

We, as Christians have died to the law in order that we may live unto our living and risen Savior Jesus Christ...

Romans 7:4 (KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[Blik]

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1

if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law - Galatians 5:18

the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56

the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15

we are not under the law- Romans 6:15

ye also are become dead to the law - Romans 7:4

we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6

we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6

Jesus made us free from the law of sin and death- Romans 8:2

I see where you are coming from. These are all things that explain how the law can be used in a wrong way. I am speaking of the law used in the right way, we are not seeing eye to eye. I am looking at the good of the law, the right way to use it, and as part of the gifts God gave us. You are looking at all the wrong ways to use the law and blaming the law for them.

God gave us the law of the spirit, and all the written law came from the Lord. What the Lord gives is always for our benefit. If we use the law as the letter of the law as we are told not to do, it is not the law's fault, it is our fault for misusing the law. If we use the law for salvation, it is not the fault of the law, it is our fault for using it in error.

Christ told us how to read the law. He said "you have been told". Then Christ repeated the law and told us we were to listen to the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. Christ said "but I tell you".

The 119th Psalm is from the Lord in praise of the law. All you have against the law is from God also, it is all truth. It is how to misuse the law.

 

[Blik]

We, as Christians have died to the law in order that we may live unto our living and risen Savior Jesus Christ...

Romans 7:4 (KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 6:2 "How shall we who are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

How could we live unto Christ and live unto sin? How could we know what is sin if we refuse to listen to the Lord as the Lord tells us what is sin?

 

[ewq1938]

It is how to misuse the law.

Nope. Everything I posted is speaking against the old law itself. There is nothing about misuse of it in those passages. It, the law, was flawed and was not a blessing to those who were slaves to it. It is the new law that is perfect and is a blessing.

 

[Blik]

Nope. Everything I posted is speaking against the old law itself. There is nothing about misuse of it in those passages. It, the law, was flawed and was not a blessing to those who were slaves to it. It is the new law that is perfect and is a blessing.

The old law was given by God. The entire 119th psalm is in praise of it. You say it is not a blessing, it enslaved. I don't see how not telling lies, or murdering, etc. enslaves. I can see how being dictated to about such as how far to walk on the Sabbath, or not helping anyone if it is the Sabbath and such enslaves, but that all the guides we have in all the law that is old, or in the old testament often frees us father than enslaves. Sin enslaves, we are freed of the enslavement of sin under Christ.

I am glad that you agree that God gave something that is good as you say the new law is perfect.

 

[ewq1938]

The old law was given by God. The entire 119th psalm is in praise of it.

David can write about how he felt about the law but Paul was taught by Christ himself so the following is true and is from God:


Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


There are only two laws. The old Sinai law of sin and death and the "law of Christ" which is the law of the Spirit of life!




1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ) that I might gain them that are without law.
1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.



Here again the two are compared.




James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.





James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.





It is also called "the law of liberty" because it is the opposite of the law of bondage, that same old law of sin and death.

 

[Blik]

David can write about how he felt about the law but Paul was taught by Christ himself so the following is true and is from God: .

I don't think it is David who wrote that Psalm, but it is scripture breathed by our Lord God.

Here are some scriptures telling us that obedience is a good thing rather than something that means we should be scolded for.

Rom_1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom_16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Co_14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

2Co_7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

2Co_10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2Co_10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Phm_1:21 Having confidence in thy obedience I wrote unto thee, knowing that thou wilt also do more than I say.

Heb_5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

There are 66 verses in the KJV telling us to obey.

 

[Magenta]

I don't think it is David who wrote that Psalm...

On the first page alone of this thread, twice you refer to David as the author of Psalm 119.

When did you change your mind?

 

[crossnote]

"How shall we who are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

How could we live unto Christ and live unto sin? How could we know what is sin if we refuse to listen to the Lord as the Lord tells us what is sin?

You may not understand but as born again believers, the law is now written on our hearts as living letters and not on stone...

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. (2Co 3:3)

28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jer 31:28, 33)

Even though it was spoken to Israel, this New Covenant applies to us as well.