Why did John the babtist started baptising?

[Guojing]

If in your mind you can only relate works as it applies to working for salvation, then your mind is shutting out works for the love of the Lord and with your limited definition of works, you are correct.

I was focusing on salvation.

But yes, I agree with you works matter for rewards, as Paul stated to us in 1 Cor 3:10-15. But the works must be built upon the foundation Paul laid for us.

 

[GiveThanks]

I was focusing on salvation.

But yes, I agree with you works matter for rewards, as Paul stated to us in 1 Cor 3:10-15. But the works must be built upon the foundation Paul laid for us.

Its like going around in circles really. But no matter how you look at it, you still have to be obedient to God's instructions. Otherwise there would be no different between Christians and unsaved, and I do believe God want us to be different. Thats why He says love not the world and the things there in.

We need to find away to harmonise the doctrine of grace alone for salvation, and living a pleasing life unto God. But i find that gace by faith alone is always emphasised, but not what comes after we are saved.

 

[Blik]

Its like going around in circles really. But no matter how you look at it, you still have to be obedient to God's instructions. Otherwise there would be no different between Christians and unsaved, and I do believe God want us to be different. Thats why He says love not the world and the things there in.

We need to find away to harmonise the doctrine of grace alone for salvation, and living a pleasing life unto God. But i find that gace by faith alone is always emphasised, but not what comes after we are saved.

That is what bewilders me about speaking about the Lord with others on this site. When I speak of what comes after salvation I am so often scolded.

 

[Guojing]

Its like going around in circles really. But no matter how you look at it, you still have to be obedient to God's instructions. Otherwise there would be no different between Christians and unsaved, and I do believe God want us to be different. Thats why He says love not the world and the things there in.

We need to find away to harmonise the doctrine of grace alone for salvation, and living a pleasing life unto God. But i find that gace by faith alone is always emphasised, but not what comes after we are saved.

So in the end, do you agree that good works are for rewards, but our salvation does not depend on works?

That is really the key in this discussion.

 

[Blik]

So in the end, do you agree that good works are for rewards, but our salvation does not depend on works?

That is really the key in this discussion.

Good works are for the love of Christ. Asking for salvation based on good works is only what atheist do.

 

[Guojing]

Good works are for the love of Christ. Asking for salvation based on good works is only what atheist do.

As I already stated, salvation is free gift to be received from God thru believing only, nothing to do with works of any kind

 

[Blik]

As I already stated, salvation is free gift to be received from God thru believing only, nothing to do with works of any kind

You are ignoring everything scripture tells about works except harping again and again on the one aspect of works, that it is faith alone through which we receive salvation. You have a one track mind.

It is like describing all the mountains of the Alps as Mount Matterhorn alone.

 

[Guojing]

You are ignoring everything scripture tells about works except harping again and again on the one aspect of works, that it is faith alone through which we receive salvation. You have a one track mind.

It is like describing all the mountains of the Alps as Mount Matterhorn alone.

You can just say you agree with me that salvation has nothing to do with works

 

[GiveThanks]

You can just say you agree with me that salvation has nothing to do with works

Inorder to be saved you have to repent. No one is saved unless they repent.

When you truly repent your behaviour will start to change gradually.

So a Christian will have works.

The way you are putting it is to say, somone can be saved and not have any works because salvation is not apart of works. And this is contrary to Jesus words. He says whoever abide in Him bears much fruit, and by their fruit you shall know them.

 

[Blik]

You can just say you agree with me that salvation has nothing to do with works

I certainly do agree that salvation is based on faith not works. But I do not agree with you that the Lord does not want us to obey him, and that is works. You have never come out with a statement that you want people to be disobedient, but your stand against works borders on such a statement.

 

[Guojing]

Inorder to be saved you have to repent. No one is saved unless they repent.

When you truly repent your behaviour will start to change gradually.

So a Christian will have works.

The way you are putting it is to say, somone can be saved and not have any works because salvation is not apart of works. And this is contrary to Jesus words. He says whoever abide in Him bears much fruit, and by their fruit you shall know them.

So you regard works as necessary for salvation?

 

[Guojing]

I certainly do agree that salvation is based on faith not works. But I do not agree with you that the Lord does not want us to obey him, and that is works. You have never come out with a statement that you want people to be disobedient, but your stand against works borders on such a statement.

I already said rewards in heaven require works

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Baptism, in one form or another, was part of the Jewish way for a long time before John the Baptist. You can "search" the history of baptism to get some info/scriptural references I suppose.

Scripture References? = Done! here: 12 baptisms, and here: ONE Baptism

Be Blessed!

 

[Simona1988]

Jesus Christ even asked the Pharisees at one point 'What do you say of John's baptism: is it from God or from men?' and the Pharisees said among them 'If we say it is from God, than he'll ask why didn't we believe him? and if we say it is from men, we attract towards ourselves the fury of the people because they hold John in high position, they consider him a prophet.'

You can find it in Matthew 21:25

I agree with GiveThanks about the importance of water baptsim: unless one gets born from water and Spirit, he can't enter the kingdom of God.

 

[ronair]

So you regard works as necessary for salvation?

If you are going to present the question in such a broad way then yes.

 

[Guojing]

If you are going to present the question in such a broad way then yes.

Well, he agreed to that question of mine. So I can understand better why he put an emphasis on water baptism.

For me, works are neither sufficient nor necessary for salvation (Romans 4:5), so I don't think that question was really that broad.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus Christ even asked the Pharisees at one point 'What do you say of John's baptism: is it from God or from men?' and the Pharisees said among them 'If we say it is from God, than he'll ask why didn't we believe him? and if we say it is from men, we attract towards ourselves the fury of the people because they hold John in high position, they consider him a prophet.'

You can find it in Matthew 21:25

I agree with GiveThanks about the importance of water baptsim: unless one gets born from water and Spirit, he can't enter the kingdom of God.

The Jews in Israel during Jesus's days were expecting a physical kingdom of God where Jesus himself reigns from David's throne in Jerusalem (Luke 1:30-33, Luke 1:68-75).

Do you think us in the Body of Christ are also promised that kind of kingdom?

 

[Simona1988]

The Jews in Israel during Jesus's days were expecting a physical kingdom of God where Jesus himself reigns from David's throne in Jerusalem (Luke 1:30-33, Luke 1:68-75).

Do you think us in the Body of Christ are also promised that kind of kingdom?

I believe in both a physical and spiritual kingdom. The physical being the Church on earth ('the fighting church), the spiritual being the Church on Heaven (the triumphant Church).

I don't think differently than the Holy Fathers of the Church.

In order to not deviate this thread from its initial question ('John's water baptism prior to the Christian one'), I invite you to read the Nicene Creed. There, you'll find expressed the Christian faith (to which I subscribe; edit: and which I confess).

 

[Guojing]

I believe in both a physical and spiritual kingdom. The physical being the Church on earth ('the fighting church), the spiritual being the Church on Heaven (the triumphant Church).

I don't think differently than the Holy Fathers of the Church.

In order to not deviate this thread from its initial question ('John's water baptism prior to the Christian one'), I invite you to read the Nicene Creed. There, you'll find expressed the Christian faith (to which I subscribe; edit: and which I confess).

But my question to you is, what kingdom do you think Israel was expecting in Jesus's first coming?

What did Gabriel and Zechariah said about Jesus in the Luke 1 scripture I mentioned to you? How do you understand what they were saying?

 

[Simona1988]

But my question to you is, what kingdom do you think Israel was expecting in Jesus's first coming?

What did Gabriel and Zechariah said about Jesus in the Luke 1 scripture I mentioned to you? How do you understand what they were saying?

Start your own thread and I'll answer there.