Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Poop poop🥸

I wrote circular reasoning! Spell check changed it to something different, I didn't catch it during the edit. My apologies!

Your problem is that you are stuck on bad translations. The original Greek is gender neutral. Paul wanted to include women and men. It's why he introduces Phoebe as a deacon at the church in Cenchrea. The rest of Romans 16 mentions many women he worked with in ministry. Including Junia, whom he calls "an apostle!" Did you know the Catholic Church changed Junia's name in the Midfle Ages to the masculine gender, because they refused to believe Paul called a woman to be an apostle, even though all the earliest texts show her name as feminine. So yes, Paul encouraged and commended women in leadership and ministry!

It's called "preconceived notions." You already believe something, you use the text to read into it what you already believed. If I had been born a man, I probably wouldn't have cared about women in ministry. Instead, God made me a woman, called me, twice. I went to seminary, earned my MDiv with honours. But during that time, I remember reading 1 Tim one night, and wondering why God even called me, if I wasn't allowed to do anything. I cried out to God to tell me why! Then next day, I walked into a used bookstore. I looked at the religion books, and there were 3 books on women pastors. Why it was right, what the Greek said, etc. I was stunned! God answered my prayer in one day. It got me studying the Bible, and learning Greek well! God didn't call me to be a pastor. I do preach in my church, but my calling is to work expanding the field of disability theology. But if I had been convinced women could not be pastors, I might have dropped out of seminary. Women are discouraged by weighty, Pharisaical non-Biblical rules that keep them out of ministry. So, I am going to defend the right of every woman to pursue their calling. I'm going to make sure the truth is known.

Some people will cling to their preconceived notions, even when given overwhelming evidence that the Y chromosome is not the entrance requirement to minister and teach the gospel. Or to be a pastor!

I am not looking for ordination, even though my Baptist Conference has been ordaining women since the 1950s. I was going to get it done, then my RA meds failed, and I faced the fact that I personally am too disabled to lead a church. But for all those women who are called by God, they have the right to be pastors, because there is not one place in the Bible it says women cannot be pastors, nor any place where it says only men can be pastors, deacons or bishops.
Poop poop? OOOoooohhhh K.

There is no bad translation if there is then you must have used it to make up the false narrative. What translation did you use to come up with your understanding?

You can't say we use a bad translation and not provide the transition you are using to make your assertion truly is Scubala.

YOu can say we are wrong for a bad translation and not provide the passages in the "correct translation" you use. Please provide it. If you can, or can't, then it is your opinion; we at least have what you call a bad translation. You have Nada.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,610
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Poop poop? OOOoooohhhh K.

There is no bad translation if there is then you must have used it to make up the false narrative. What translation did you use to come up with your understanding?

You can't say we use a bad translation and not provide the transition you are using to make your assertion truly is Scubala.

YOu can say we are wrong for a bad translation and not provide the passages in the "correct translation" you use. Please provide it. If you can, or can't, then it is your opinion; we at least have what you call a bad translation. You have Nada.
Did you miss the part where Angela states that she reads Greek? She doesn't need to use anyone else's translation.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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Correct.....in "ANCIENT TIMES" before the Word of God was canonized.

God us ed Prophets to speak for Him in those day but Hebrews 1:1-2..........
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds".

Luke 9:35............
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”

The Greek phrase, “in these last days,” is found in the Septuagint, where it often refers to the day of Messiah.

Dr. F. F. Bruce in his paper on Hebrews (p. 3) says......
“His word was not completely uttered until Christ came; but when Christ came, the word spoken in Him was indeed God’s final word…. The story of divine revelation is a story of progression up to Christ, but there is no progression beyond Him.”

IF you want to PROPHESY to me today......You must post the BOOK, the CHAPTER and the VERSE from the Bible!!!!

Acts 2:17 has nothing to do with this subject. Peter quoted Joel 2 and Joel clearly said that in "THE LAST DAYS' those things would happen. Acts 2 was the coming of the Holt Spirit and the start of the church so it has no application to the subject at hand.
I did post the BOOK, the CHAPTER and the VERSE from the Bible. That's what "Acts 2:17" means.

I don't concern myself with the writings of theologians or scholars. If you are going to refer me to scholars or theologians, I will not regard. My understanding comes solely from the scriptures.

I do understand that the bible is complete and that there is no "further" word of God from the scriptures themselves. The point of prophesying is to speak (or post) the word of God. It does not mean we have to post some "new" word because there is no new word. The entire bible is considered by God to be a book of prophesies. (Rev 22:18) Citing prophesies is what prophets do.

When we cite scripture to each other, we're prophesying.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,610
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I did post the BOOK, the CHAPTER and the VERSE from the Bible. That's what "Acts 2:17" means.

I don't concern myself with the writings of theologians or scholars. If you are going to refer me to scholars or theologians, I will not regard. My understanding comes solely from the scriptures.

I do understand that the bible is complete and that there is no "further" word of God from the scriptures themselves. The point of prophesying is to speak (or post) the word of God. It does not mean we have to post some "new" word because there is no new word. The entire bible is considered by God to be a book of prophesies. (Rev 22:18) Citing prophesies is what prophets do.

When we cite scripture to each other, we're prophesying.
I couldn't disagree more strongly. Prophesying is a gift given to some (not to all) by the Holy Spirit. If prophesying were citing Scripture to one another, anyone who could read or had memorized a passage could be a prophet.

By the way, those who claim that preaching is prophesying, but that the "gift" of prophecy no longer exists, are blatant hypocrites.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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That's certainly possible, or at least there are those who claim such a status. My FORMER best friend of 35 years used to tell me that "What I say has been established by God."

What makes these kinds of people so difficult to deal with is that anytime someone says something that goes against their "knowledge," that person is 100% of the time rendered to simply being wrong. Can't deal with "christians" like that.
No one can agree on doctrine. God gives to each some degree of understanding and others absolutely no understanding. What I say I have learned from the scriptures and believe. You may disagree with me, I may disagree with you, but you and I should not be adverse to each other. So we can talk about other things too.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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I couldn't disagree more strongly. Prophesying is a gift given to some (not to all) by the Holy Spirit. If prophesying were citing Scripture to one another, anyone who could read or had memorized a passage could be a prophet.

By the way, those who claim that preaching is prophesying, but that the "gift" of prophecy no longer exists, are blatant hypocrites.
In a world of (roughly) 7 billion people, let's just say 4 billion identify as Christians and of that 4 billion, perhaps maybe a hundred million cite God's word to others, that would drastically limit the prophets and their sphere of influence. This is of God, not us.

I don't believe preaching is prophesying unless that preaching is simply a recitation of the Bible. In the ancient times, when Israel was gathered together and weeping and mourning, with Josiah, with Ezra, etc, what was done? They read the words of the book to the people. In today's church services, maybe one or 2 lines from the OT and a couple from the NT are read in church. Very little prophesying of spiritual sustenance. The rest is "preaching."
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
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I did post the BOOK, the CHAPTER and the VERSE from the Bible. That's what "Acts 2:17" means.

I don't concern myself with the writings of theologians or scholars. If you are going to refer me to scholars or theologians, I will not regard. My understanding comes solely from the scriptures.

I do understand that the bible is complete and that there is no "further" word of God from the scriptures themselves. The point of prophesying is to speak (or post) the word of God. It does not mean we have to post some "new" word because there is no new word. The entire bible is considered by God to be a book of prophesies. (Rev 22:18) Citing prophesies is what prophets do.

When we cite scripture to each other, we're prophesying.
We have a misunderstanding of terms. In all that I have said about "Prophesy" and that there are NO prophets today......
was a reference to PROPHETS who spoke for God and in some cases FORETOLD FUTURE events.

IMHO......to "Prophesy" today from the Scriptures is to TEACH correctly the Word of God and not to bring some NEW information.

I hope this helps what I was talking about.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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When those detais go over your head....reach up and grab them because there is truth in detail.

I get your point. Do you know what immediately goes up in my head though when I think about the "details" the "finer points" the "intricacies?"

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT directed at you personally. It's a concept, nothing to do with you.

Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
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well then take your advice, now your answer to post #2217
please... (smile).

PICJAG,
101G.
You mean with all of this detailed information you provide ...YOU do not know the duties of a Church Pastor?????

I would have thought you were an expert on this subject but since you do not seem to know allow me to tell you that as a pastor, you provide spiritual leadership to members of a church. Your duties include preparing weekly sermons, preaching and conducting worship services. It's your responsibility to interpret biblical scripture for the congregation. You also provide care and counseling to church members and assist them in crisis situations along with visits as needed by those who are in need.

However.......none of that has anything to do with Paul not being a Pastor. There is NOT ONE single Scripture that says he was a church Pastor. A church PLANTER.....YES, but nothing about being a Pastor.

So then....now what is your point?
 
Apr 26, 2021
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We have a misunderstanding of terms. In all that I have said about "Prophesy" and that there are NO prophets today......
was a reference to PROPHETS who spoke for God and in some cases FORETOLD FUTURE events.

IMHO......to "Prophesy" today from the Scriptures is to TEACH correctly the Word of God and not to bring some NEW information.

I hope this helps what I was talking about.
I understand and we agree in part. But, consider one thing: There are new layers of revelation and enlightenment coming from the ancient scriptures. More understanding is given to us today without any new words.

Psalm 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

and also consider:

Matthew 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

This is very exciting to me. No new words, but amazingly, new revelation! And it's all for us. Prophets are very much the same today prophesying God's word today while he teaches us understanding in due season.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
885
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I get your point. Do you know what immediately goes up in my head though when I think about the "details" the "finer points" the "intricacies?"

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT directed at you personally. It's a concept, nothing to do with you.

Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
I do understand.

I hope you also understand that when building a house, ONE centimeter off in the foundation will translate into a FOOT being off when you get to the rafters so then you will have to tear the whole thing down and start over.

I am only saying that "details" do matter, whether we like it or not.

How many people over the years have you heard say......"Eve ate the Apple"???
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
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I did post the BOOK, the CHAPTER and the VERSE from the Bible. That's what "Acts 2:17" means.

I don't concern myself with the writings of theologians or scholars. If you are going to refer me to scholars or theologians, I will not regard. My understanding comes solely from the scriptures.

I do understand that the bible is complete and that there is no "further" word of God from the scriptures themselves. The point of prophesying is to speak (or post) the word of God. It does not mean we have to post some "new" word because there is no new word. The entire bible is considered by God to be a book of prophesies. (Rev 22:18) Citing prophesies is what prophets do.

When we cite scripture to each other, we're prophesying.
You can't dismiss "theologians " Paul was one.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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Did you miss the part where Angela states that she reads Greek? She doesn't need to use anyone else's translation.
You mean the Greek Text (Novum Testamentum Graece) created by Adulterers Kurt & Barbara Aland, and homosexual union supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) that supports modern translations NIV, ESV, NASB, RSV, Etc :)
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
885
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I understand and we agree in part. But, consider one thing: There are new layers of revelation and enlightenment coming from the ancient scriptures. More understanding is given to us today without any new words.

Psalm 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

and also consider:

Matthew 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

This is very exciting to me. No new words, but amazingly, new revelation! And it's all for us. Prophets are very much the same today prophesying God's word today while he teaches us understanding in due season.
Well.....if we open the door to accept NEW Revelation from God, then you are placing everything in the hands of a SINNER, a man.

How would you know if what he said was from God or from Satan????

If you will recall...that is exactly how man fell, by changing the Word of God.

IF we open the door to NEW revelations, will we not have another KORAN?

Then consider for a moment that the NEW revelations from Joseph Smith, the founder and author of the Mormon scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price), presents God as being an exalted man, who lived on some planet out in the universe, who earned the right to godhood by being faithful and doing good works. This is completely counter to everything that the Bible says about the person, nature and character of God. Further, there are irreconcilable contradictions between Mormon scriptures, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price which clearly establishes its human authorship. God does not contradict Himself as the LDS Standard Works do.

There are two types of revelation: Special and General.

General revelation applies to the knowledge of God that comes from looking at nature and the universe.

Special revelation is God speaking directly to man, and that revelation being written under the "inspiration" of God, the Holy Spirit. (2 Tim. 3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21) Special revelation is God's specific information and instructions to man. The sixty six books that comprise our Bible is special revelation from God.

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus warned for these false teachers saying .....
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
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God does not give to everyone to hear and understand. Some people understand truth, others do not. So, doctrines vary because there are many doctrines in the world and only one truth.
Which is why it is of the up most importance that we read, study and understand the written Word of God.

It is through the written Word of God that He speaks to us.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
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No one can agree on doctrine. God gives to each some degree of understanding and others absolutely no understanding. What I say I have learned from the scriptures and believe. You may disagree with me, I may disagree with you, but you and I should not be adverse to each other. So we can talk about other things too.
I would encourage you to think twice about ........."No one can agree on doctrine"!

Actually, we as Christians MUST agree on Bible doctrine!

If we don;t then we become Mormons.....Jehovah Witnesses......Roman Catholics and the list goes on and on.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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I would encourage you to think twice about ........."No one can agree on doctrine"!

Actually, we as Christians MUST agree on Bible doctrine!

If we don;t then we become Mormons.....Jehovah Witnesses......Roman Catholics and the list goes on and on.
Sounds good that we must agree on doctrine?

Are you going to let go of your (Pre-Trib Rapture) and (Millennial Kingdom) on this earth, neither being found in the scripture
:)