Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[CS1]

Can a woman be bishop/ eldest? This is what we today call Pastor.
Can a woman be husband of a wife?

the word Bishop here in Greek is episkopē which means overseer, or elder. A Pastor in the old testament is a shepherd and in the new Testament Pastor in Ephesians 4:11 from the greek is poimēn which means

1. of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
2. a herdsman, esp. a shepherd

What I am trying to see is where it states A women can not be Pastor? I have not found any verses that say that
Can a woman be an Elder, Missionary? Evangelist but not a Pastor yet I want where it says that in the Bible please

 

[Dino246]

That's what you always say Dino. Verbatim.

And? What of it?

 

[Dino246]

Can a woman be bishop/ eldest? This is what we today call Pastor.

In some circles, perhaps. However, that's not true in Scripture, and it's not true in all congregations.

 

[Dino246]

You asking me to explain why Paul wrote this? You have not to ask me. If this answer dont satisfy you. What can I do?

You can consider whether there is a reasonable connection between the two ideas, instead of dismissing the question with something like, "The Holy Spirit inspired it".

 

[Tararose]

I don't know why you change tracks. I have not contended that any non-proselyte gentile was ordained during biblical times. So it's argumentum ex silentio, an argument you make in the absence of me stating anything of which you argue. That itself makes a poor ground for discussion.

And I wonder what case you are actually trying to make? That converted gentiles are categorically to be excluded from being ordained to offices in the church? That would be another discussion entirely. Or are you by any chance confusing sex/gender with ethnicity? If so, why? Not the same topic.

I don't also get what you want to hammer home by talking about joining "jewish orthodox 'churches'" and stuff. Confusing.

I was simply taking your logic and running with it, IE. why stop at women if the logic you used in post number 1,033 - of how we decide who can and can't be ordained in church - is accurate.

I don't agree whatsoever that it is good logic - because if the logic you used was the way we decided on doctrine then it would end up in those daft and absurd scenarios I mentioned. The ones you seem so baffled about. Such as only being able to accept those of Jewish decent as "ordained elders" (You would tend to find them easily in a jewish orthodox church which is why I mentioned that) because of the biblical restrictions - the logic you presented would lead us to assume exist, and that must be implemented.

You didn't mention the things I spoke of, because I am sure you know they are ridiculous, but unfortunately, you did however use the very same logic in your post.

If you cannot see that then of course you dont get my response, and of course you feel it is poor ground for a discussion, because it will be as poor as the logic you presented - and which I persisted with to make the point.

I hope that clarifies the last response.

So, just in case there was any further confusion, to sum up:

1) do not actually agree that non-jews cannot be elders, or that we need to only attend a jewish Orthodox Church.

2)I would have to believe these things of I agree with your logic of who and who cannot be ordained - which you based on existing biblical examples of elder ordination.

 

[ankagirl]

The strongest argument I find is that God gives spiritual gifts, I believe God can give a woman the skills/gifts to be pastor. Keep in mind that women also pray to God about this issue before becoming a pastor, and wait for His answer. Another compelling reason I find is that the Bible says single unmarried men cannot be church leaders:

1 Timothy 3:2 “A bishop (elder) then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach”; 1 Timothy 3:12 “Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well”; and Titus 1:6-7 “. . . appoint elders in every city as I commanded you—if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination...” These three passages suggest that an elder or deacon must be a married man.
However, if that's the case even Jesus and Paul would be unqualified to be pastor.

The authority issue is about the husband and wife relationship; the husband has authority over the wife. However, any random man does not automatically have authority over a woman. If the woman is married, I do think she needs the husband's approval before being pastor. My observation with the female pastors I see is that the husbands are proud of their wives.

The Bible is very clear about this in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 that women ought to keep silence in the church.

 

[Tararose]

The Bible is very clear about this in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 that women ought to keep silence in the church.

Under what circumstances MUST women wear a head covering according to scripture?
1 cor 11 v 5 says with equal clarity that ...every woman who prays or prophesies (never a private affair) with her head uncovered dishonors her head.

If our understanding causes a contradiction with another scripture, perhaps we need a rethink and a pray for a resolution that encompasses them ALL. Perhaps a further examination of context would make what we think is clear - to become yet clearer still.

 

[Dino246]

The Bible is very clear about this in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 that women ought to keep silence in the church.

Hello and welcome to CC!

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 seems clear. However, three chapters earlier, Paul writes about women praying and prophesying... the latter of which at least is done aloud. In other words, Paul affirms women speaking. It doesn't make sense that he affirms it in one place and forbids it in another. Further, consider that it says, "as also saith the law"... only the law (the torah) does not say anything about women keeping silent.

I would encourage you to dig deeper rather than merely accepting what the text in isolation seems to say.

 

[Truth7t7]

What I am trying to see is where it states A women can not be Pastor? I have not found any verses that say that

Why do you disregard the very clear teaching of scripture below, it's been posted several times, and you act as if it dosent exist.

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible is very clear about this in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 that women ought to keep silence in the church.

Your 100% correct, don't let the Liberal participants convince you otherwise.

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[cv5]

And? What of it?

The way I see it, taking precise deliberate meaningful Scriptures, by which doctrine is settled, and treating them irreverently so as to change the process of hermeneutics into a game of pin the tail on the donkey is foolhardy, and casts one's reputation into the gutter.

 

[Tararose]

Your 100% correct, don't let the Liberal participants convince you otherwise.

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Is it not rather harsh - even divisive - to say that because someone quotes a scripture that happens to not fit in with - or disagrees with your stance, that they are Liberal. You are perfectly entitled to cut out whatever you like from your bible study to get your understanding of a topic, BUT there are still solid scriptures that indicate a contradiction to the way you have understood the matter - ie the context and the why and when and what Pauls intentions were in what he said and to whom he said them.

I could say God commanded in scripture to build an ark. Why are you not building an ark? The answer is obvious. God wasn't telling EVERYONE to build an ark.

Time, reason and audience matter greatly.

God commands the levite (male) priests to wear a head covering, and Samson to never cut his hair - Paul says such things must not be done and that this is a principle from the very beginning... are we really sure Paul is discrediting God and saying He commanded people to do what was by his own command unlawful? God forbid!

Paul instructs Women to cover their heads when they pray or prophesy (As Joel said they would when the Holy Spirit came)

Yet in the very same letter Paul also says women must keep silent... is he confused? Does he forget the "law" he quotes later, and then suddenly remember it a few chapters on so corrects himself? No, obviously not.

God puts a married woman in leadership over all of Israel for 40 years (Deborah - a prophet and a judge).

Paul says the LAW dictates they to be in submission....

But which law is that that God made Deborah break? Are we suggesting He make her sin!!!! Obviously not. God does not tempt anyone with Evil.

I hope that you will acknowledge it is not as black and white as you seem to be insisting, and that other scriptures are equally valid and need to be included in the understanding of topics like this.

Issues always occur if we just rip out a portion of a book, even a letter, and say THIS IS IT... which we can all do and come to totally different conclusions obviously. Presenting ANOTHER scripture on the same topic has nothing to do with being liberal.

It is done to provoke the question that needs to be asked for a clear understanding, what exactly is Paul talking about, to who and why?

Are we sure there is not a misunderstanding if we are taking one portion literally and dismissing the other as non literal when it contradicts our view?

Which portion needs the black marker running over it? Obviously neither! But there must be a rethink if we are to remain in line with the whole word of God.

 

[Truth7t7]

The way I see it, taking precise deliberate meaningful Scriptures, by which doctrine is settled, and treating them irreverently so as to change the process of hermeneutics into a game of pin the tail on the donkey is foolhardy, and casts one's reputation into the gutter.

Willful disobedience in rebellion to the very clear and simple words of truth below

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[cv5]

Is it not rather harsh - even divisive - to say that because someone quotes a scripture that happens to not fit in with - or disagrees with your stance, that they are Liberal. You are perfectly entitled to cut out whatever you like from your bible study to get your understanding of a topic, BUT there are still solid scriptures that indicate a contradiction to the way you have understood the matter - ie the context and the why and when and what Pauls intentions were in what he said and to whom he said them.

I could say God commanded in scripture to build an ark. Why are you not building an ark? The answer is obvious. God wasn't telling EVERYONE to build an ark.

Time, reason and audience matter greatly.

God commands the levite (male) priests to wear a head covering, and Samson to never cut his hair - Paul says such things must not be done and that this is a principle from the very beginning... are we really sure Paul is discrediting God and saying He commanded people to do what was by his own command unlawful? God forbid!

Paul instructs Women to cover their heads when they pray or prophesy (As Joel said they would when the Holy Spirit came)

Yet in the very same letter Paul also says women must keep silent... is he confused? Does he forget the "law" he quotes later, and then suddenly remember it a few chapters on so corrects himself? No, obviously not.

God puts a married woman in leadership over all of Israel for 40 years (Deborah - a prophet and a judge).

Paul says the LAW dictates they to be in submission....

But which law is that that God made Deborah break? Are we suggesting He make her sin!!!! Obviously not. God does not tempt anyone with Evil.

I hope that you will acknowledge it is not as black and white as you seem to be insisting, and that other scriptures are equally valid and need to be included in the understanding of topics like this.

Issues always occur if we just rip out a portion of a book, even a letter, and say THIS IS IT... which we can all do and come to totally different conclusions obviously. Presenting ANOTHER scripture on the same topic has nothing to do with being liberal.

It is done to provoke the question that needs to be asked for a clear understanding, what exactly is Paul talking about, to who and why?

Are we sure there is not a misunderstanding if we are taking one portion literally and dismissing the other as non literal when it contradicts our view?

Which portion needs the black marker running over it? Obviously neither! But there must be a rethink if we are to remain in line with the whole word of God.

There has not been one woman pastor recorded in the annals of Church history in over 2000 years. More to the point nothing recorded in the Apostolic Church age either. If the original settled doctrine would have allowed women pastors believe me we would know about it. And this particular question would never need to be the subject of debate on any Christian chat message board.

Women pastors are a recent phenomenon. A sign of the times.

 

[Tararose]

There has not been one woman pastor recorded in the annals of Church history in over 2000 years. More to the point nothing recorded in the Apostolic Church age either. If the original settled doctrine would have allowed women pastors believe me we would know about it. And this particular question would never need to be the subject of debate on any Christian chat message board.

Women pastors are a recent phenomenon. A sign of the times.

Ok, so we are still disregarding the scriptures on women speaking, and going back to logic... that's fine.

Why use church history when it is rife with racism, peadophilia, false doctrines, popes (that word literally means HOLY FATHER!!!!! come on!!!) witchcraft and scandal? Oh and not to mention a HOLY SINLESS MOTHER OF GOD... eek!!! talk about putting women in positions of power.... doesn't get much higher.

Why not just use the scriptures?

Tell me please, how many believing gentiles were ordained in scripture as pastors?

 

[Truth7t7]

Is it not rather harsh - even divisive - to say that because someone quotes a scripture that happens to not fit in with - or disagrees with your stance, that they are Liberal. You are perfectly entitled to cut out whatever you like from your bible study to get your understanding of a topic, BUT there are still solid scriptures that indicate a contradiction to the way you have understood the matter - ie the context and the why and when and what Pauls intentions were in what he said and to whom he said them.

I could say God commanded in scripture to build an ark. Why are you not building an ark? The answer is obvious. God wasn't telling EVERYONE to build an ark.

Time, reason and audience matter greatly.

God commands the levite (male) priests to wear a head covering, and Samson to never cut his hair - Paul says such things must not be done and that this is a principle from the very beginning... are we really sure Paul is discrediting God and saying He commanded people to do what was by his own command unlawful? God forbid!

Paul instructs Women to cover their heads when they pray or prophesy (As Joel said they would when the Holy Spirit came)

Yet in the very same letter Paul also says women must keep silent... is he confused? Does he forget the "law" he quotes later, and then suddenly remember it a few chapters on so corrects himself? No, obviously not.

God puts a married woman in leadership over all of Israel for 40 years (Deborah - a prophet and a judge).

Paul says the LAW dictates they to be in submission....

But which law is that that God made Deborah break? Are we suggesting He make her sin!!!! Obviously not. God does not tempt anyone with Evil.

I hope that you will acknowledge it is not as black and white as you seem to be insisting, and that other scriptures are equally valid and need to be included in the understanding of topics like this.

Issues always occur if we just rip out a portion of a book, even a letter, and say THIS IS IT... which we can all do and come to totally different conclusions obviously. Presenting ANOTHER scripture on the same topic has nothing to do with being liberal.

It is done to provoke the question that needs to be asked for a clear understanding, what exactly is Paul talking about, to who and why?

Are we sure there is not a misunderstanding if we are taking one portion literally and dismissing the other as non literal when it contradicts our view?

Which portion needs the black marker running over it? Obviously neither! But there must be a rethink if we are to remain in line with the whole word of God.

That was a long explanation, and the conclusion is still the same

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Truth7t7]

There has not been one woman pastor recorded in the annals of Church history in over 2000 years. More to the point nothing recorded in the Apostolic Church age either. If the original settled doctrine would have allowed women pastors believe me we would know about it. And this particular question would never need to be the subject of debate on any Christian chat message board.

Women pastors are a recent phenomenon. A sign of the times.

You mean feminism, abortion, same sex marriage, women pastors, are all seen in these last days, and yes I agree it's a sign of the times.

Good thing Gods words haven't changed, good ole KJV 409 years and going strong!

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Tararose]

That was a long explanation, and the conclusion is still the same

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Yeah the conclusion is the same, and it is that you have chosen to ignore the legitimate concerns over verses that don't fit in with your understanding. I guess that much is plain enough, even clearer than the verses you seem to have a preference for. Leave you to it. Peace

 

[Truth7t7]

Yeah the conclusion is the same, and it is that you have chosen to ignore the legitimate concerns over verses that don't fit in with your understanding. I guess that much is plain enough, even clearer than the verses you seem to have a preference for. Leave you to it. Peace

Thanks for the response, the conclusion is the same

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Dino246]

The way I see it, taking precise deliberate meaningful Scriptures, by which doctrine is settled, and treating them irreverently so as to change the process of hermeneutics into a game of pin the tail on the donkey is foolhardy, and casts one's reputation into the gutter.

Well... then don't do it!