Who is the beast that was and is not?

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#21
Thank you. Could you give me your best estimation on who this "Once was" earthly ruler was who was supported by the beast? Perhaps it was during the Maccabee days when they put up an idol and a pig in the Temple?
Good day!

There is really no way to know the human ruler that this angel/beast was empowering prior to his being thrown into the Abyss or at what time in history he was restricted there. All we can know, is that at the time that John was receiving that information from the angel, that he was already in the Abyss, which can be concluded by the words "now is not," meaning that when John received that information he was already in the Abyss. Below is an example of what I am talking about in regards to the armies of fallen angels being the power behind human armies:

"Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

The angel above who is speaking with Daniel is Gabriel, as he mentioned previously. And as the scripture states, as soon as Daniel began to pray Gabriel was sent to give Daniel the information. But he also says that he (Gabriel) was detained by the prince of Persia. Now we know that no human prince and his army could keep Gabriel, who is a mighty angel, a supernatural being, from getting to Daniel. But what he is referring to was a fallen angel and his army who were empowering the human prince of Persia and his army. To be clear, Gabriel was speaking about spiritual warfare. We see this in other places in scripture as well, where fallen angels are referred to by the title of human rulers, such as the following:

===============================================
(Ezekiel 29:12-17)
Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“ ‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before king

================================================

As you can see in the first verse, the lament is said to be to the king of Tyre. However, as you continue reading, you realize that the 'king of Tyre' is a moniker representing Lucifer/Satan. We know this, because in verse 13, the king of Tyre is said to have been in 'Eden, the garden of God.' Then in verse 14, this king of Tyre is revealed to be a guardian cherub (Ker-oob), i.e. a guardian angel and which is also mentioned in verse 16. From the context it also appears that Lucifer's body was adorned with precious stones of every type.

Now, going back to Daniel where Gabriel refers to being kept from reaching Daniel by the 'Prince of Persia,' in the same way, it is referring to a powerful fallen angel and his demonic army as the one who is restraining Gabriel from reaching Daniel. In further support of this, Michael the archangel had to come and help Gabriel to fight against that prince of Persia in order to finally reach Daniel.

Also, what is your opinion regarding the 7 Kings, of which one was in John's day, five had fallen.
"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."

According to the scripture, the seven heads of the dragon, symbolically represent seven hills upon which the woman sits. They also symbolically represent a succession of seven kings, five of which had already come and gone as John was receiving the information from the angel. Then the angel says, "one is," i.e. king number six was currently ruling when the angel was giving John this information. King number seven had not yet come as John was was receiving this information. Then an eighth king is mentioned who belongs to the seven. That fact that it states that he comes up out of the Abyss tells us that this eighth king is not a man, but is that angel of the Abyss who will come up out of the Abyss and will be the power behind the coming antichrist.

As far as who those pervious seven kings were, my guess would be that they were Roman emperors. My reasoning for this is that, the clues given in Revelation 17, identifies the woman who rides the beast as being the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). For the angel tells John "the woman that you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth." At the time that John was on Patmos and receiving that information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. John wouldn't know what the angel was talking about, but we who are in the future can look back and see how the RCC came about and her pagan beliefs and practices which stem from the religious systems of Babylon, such as Queen of Heaven worship and mother and son worship, just to name a few. Therefore, because of the references to the RCC, my bet is that those seven kings were seven emperors. Another question would be, 'are those kings mentioned referring to human kings or the demonic powers that are behind those kings. Maybe both. If it is speaking about Roman Emperors, the king number six "one is" would have been Emperor Domitian, for it was during his reign of (81-96 ad) that John was banished to Patmos.

The angel also says that the seven heads represent seven hills/mountains upon which the woman sits. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. This information is pointing us to the headquarters of the pagan religious system that would later become Roman Catholicism.

The angel also tells John that "The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls." Purple and scarlet are the exact colors warn by the Bishops and Cardinals within the RCC.



And Glittering with gold and precious stones

1618163334333.jpeg


Constantine and not Peter, was the first pope and emperor. The RCC today still considers the office of the pope as also being emperor and that all people are to be come under the authority of the pope and belong to the RCC. Anyone who does not is considered a Heretic. Unfortunately for them, they do not currently have the power to enforce the popes authority over the rulers of the earth. However, when that antichrist comes, the woman (Roman Catholicism) will ride the beast, meaning that she will use the antichrist/beast to enforce her religious authority upon all people. I personally believe that, one of the future popes is going to play the part of the second beast, the false prophet, who of course is the leader of the RCC. It is he who will be performing those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast/antichrist in order to support his claim of being God or anything that is called god.

Hope this answered your question.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#22
"These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
Man is appointed to die once and then face judgement. If two human men, where is their death and judgement before being cast into the lake of fire???
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#23
Good day!

There is really no way to know the human ruler that this angel/beast was empowering prior to his being thrown into the Abyss or at what time in history he was restricted there. All we can know, is that at the time that John was receiving that information from the angel, that he was already in the Abyss, which can be concluded by the words "now is not," meaning that when John received that information he was already in the Abyss. Below is an example of what I am talking about in regards to the armies of fallen angels being the power behind human armies:

"Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

The angel above who is speaking with Daniel is Gabriel, as he mentioned previously. And as the scripture states, as soon as Daniel began to pray Gabriel was sent to give Daniel the information. But he also says that he (Gabriel) was detained by the prince of Persia. Now we know that no human prince and his army could keep Gabriel, who is a mighty angel, a supernatural being, from getting to Daniel. But what he is referring to was a fallen angel and his army who were empowering the human prince of Persia and his army. To be clear, Gabriel was speaking about spiritual warfare. We see this in other places in scripture as well, where fallen angels are referred to by the title of human rulers, such as the following:

===============================================
(Ezekiel 29:12-17)
Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“ ‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before king

================================================

As you can see in the first verse, the lament is said to be to the king of Tyre. However, as you continue reading, you realize that the 'king of Tyre' is a moniker representing Lucifer/Satan. We know this, because in verse 13, the king of Tyre is said to have been in 'Eden, the garden of God.' Then in verse 14, this king of Tyre is revealed to be a guardian cherub (Ker-oob), i.e. a guardian angel and which is also mentioned in verse 16. From the context it also appears that Lucifer's body was adorned with precious stones of every type.

Now, going back to Daniel where Gabriel refers to being kept from reaching Daniel by the 'Prince of Persia,' in the same way, it is referring to a powerful fallen angel and his demonic army as the one who is restraining Gabriel from reaching Daniel. In further support of this, Michael the archangel had to come and help Gabriel to fight against that prince of Persia in order to finally reach Daniel.



"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."

According to the scripture, the seven heads of the dragon, symbolically represent seven hills upon which the woman sits. They also symbolically represent a succession of seven kings, five of which had already come and gone as John was receiving the information from the angel. Then the angel says, "one is," i.e. king number six was currently ruling when the angel was giving John this information. King number seven had not yet come as John was was receiving this information. Then an eighth king is mentioned who belongs to the seven. That fact that it states that he comes up out of the Abyss tells us that this eighth king is not a man, but is that angel of the Abyss who will come up out of the Abyss and will be the power behind the coming antichrist.

As far as who those pervious seven kings were, my guess would be that they were Roman emperors. My reasoning for this is that, the clues given in Revelation 17, identifies the woman who rides the beast as being the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). For the angel tells John "the woman that you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth." At the time that John was on Patmos and receiving that information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. John wouldn't know what the angel was talking about, but we who are in the future can look back and see how the RCC came about and her pagan beliefs and practices which stem from the religious systems of Babylon, such as Queen of Heaven worship and mother and son worship, just to name a few. Therefore, because of the references to the RCC, my bet is that those seven kings were seven emperors. Another question would be, 'are those kings mentioned referring to human kings or the demonic powers that are behind those kings. Maybe both. If it is speaking about Roman Emperors, the king number six "one is" would have been Emperor Domitian, for it was during his reign of (81-96 ad) that John was banished to Patmos.

The angel also says that the seven heads represent seven hills/mountains upon which the woman sits. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. This information is pointing us to the headquarters of the pagan religious system that would later become Roman Catholicism.

The angel also tells John that "The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls." Purple and scarlet are the exact colors warn by the Bishops and Cardinals within the RCC.



And Glittering with gold and precious stones

View attachment 226915


Constantine and not Peter, was the first pope and emperor. The RCC today still considers the office of the pope as also being emperor and that all people are to be come under the authority of the pope and belong to the RCC. Anyone who does not is considered a Heretic. Unfortunately for them, they do not currently have the power to enforce the popes authority over the rulers of the earth. However, when that antichrist comes, the woman (Roman Catholicism) will ride the beast, meaning that she will use the antichrist/beast to enforce her religious authority upon all people. I personally believe that, one of the future popes is going to play the part of the second beast, the false prophet, who of course is the leader of the RCC. It is he who will be performing those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast/antichrist in order to support his claim of being God or anything that is called god.

Hope this answered your question.
The Whore of Babylon already exists! you show it in the pictures !!!:eek:
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#24
Mountains in the bible are often a metaphor for big powerful nations, while hills are usually a metaphor for smaller nations.
The seven heads of the beast which are also the seven mountains and the seven kings represent the G-7 nations today. Five of these nations have fallen from their prominence among the worlds nations, while one is currently the prominent member, and one is yet to ascend to the prominent position.
Hi Luigi!

While it is true that mountains are used symbolically to represent governments/kingdoms, in this case the seven heads of the dragon represent seven literal hills. We know this because the angel tells John "The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth." It also says that this woman who is a city, also sits on those seven literal hills, which is referring to her headquarters. Since the woman is said to be a city that sits on seven hills, then those seven heads cannot represent nations. The use of Symbolism represents the literal. In this case, the seven heads are symbolically representing seven literal hills.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#25
The Whore of Babylon already exists! you show it in the pictures !!!:eek:
Yep! She began with Constantine and throughout history controlled kings and their armies through the threat of excommunication, all the way up to 1798. She wants that power back and will obtain it through riding that beast, i.e. using him to reestablish her power.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#26
Good day!

There is really no way to know the human ruler that this angel/beast was empowering prior to his being thrown into the Abyss or at what time in history he was restricted there. All we can know, is that at the time that John was receiving that information from the angel, that he was already in the Abyss, which can be concluded by the words "now is not," meaning that when John received that information he was already in the Abyss. Below is an example of what I am talking about in regards to the armies of fallen angels being the power behind human armies:

"Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

The angel above who is speaking with Daniel is Gabriel, as he mentioned previously. And as the scripture states, as soon as Daniel began to pray Gabriel was sent to give Daniel the information. But he also says that he (Gabriel) was detained by the prince of Persia. Now we know that no human prince and his army could keep Gabriel, who is a mighty angel, a supernatural being, from getting to Daniel. But what he is referring to was a fallen angel and his army who were empowering the human prince of Persia and his army. To be clear, Gabriel was speaking about spiritual warfare. We see this in other places in scripture as well, where fallen angels are referred to by the title of human rulers, such as the following:

===============================================
(Ezekiel 29:12-17)
Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“ ‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before king

================================================

As you can see in the first verse, the lament is said to be to the king of Tyre. However, as you continue reading, you realize that the 'king of Tyre' is a moniker representing Lucifer/Satan. We know this, because in verse 13, the king of Tyre is said to have been in 'Eden, the garden of God.' Then in verse 14, this king of Tyre is revealed to be a guardian cherub (Ker-oob), i.e. a guardian angel and which is also mentioned in verse 16. From the context it also appears that Lucifer's body was adorned with precious stones of every type.

Now, going back to Daniel where Gabriel refers to being kept from reaching Daniel by the 'Prince of Persia,' in the same way, it is referring to a powerful fallen angel and his demonic army as the one who is restraining Gabriel from reaching Daniel. In further support of this, Michael the archangel had to come and help Gabriel to fight against that prince of Persia in order to finally reach Daniel.



"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."

According to the scripture, the seven heads of the dragon, symbolically represent seven hills upon which the woman sits. They also symbolically represent a succession of seven kings, five of which had already come and gone as John was receiving the information from the angel. Then the angel says, "one is," i.e. king number six was currently ruling when the angel was giving John this information. King number seven had not yet come as John was was receiving this information. Then an eighth king is mentioned who belongs to the seven. That fact that it states that he comes up out of the Abyss tells us that this eighth king is not a man, but is that angel of the Abyss who will come up out of the Abyss and will be the power behind the coming antichrist.

As far as who those pervious seven kings were, my guess would be that they were Roman emperors. My reasoning for this is that, the clues given in Revelation 17, identifies the woman who rides the beast as being the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). For the angel tells John "the woman that you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth." At the time that John was on Patmos and receiving that information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. John wouldn't know what the angel was talking about, but we who are in the future can look back and see how the RCC came about and her pagan beliefs and practices which stem from the religious systems of Babylon, such as Queen of Heaven worship and mother and son worship, just to name a few. Therefore, because of the references to the RCC, my bet is that those seven kings were seven emperors. Another question would be, 'are those kings mentioned referring to human kings or the demonic powers that are behind those kings. Maybe both. If it is speaking about Roman Emperors, the king number six "one is" would have been Emperor Domitian, for it was during his reign of (81-96 ad) that John was banished to Patmos.

The angel also says that the seven heads represent seven hills/mountains upon which the woman sits. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. This information is pointing us to the headquarters of the pagan religious system that would later become Roman Catholicism.

The angel also tells John that "The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls." Purple and scarlet are the exact colors warn by the Bishops and Cardinals within the RCC.



And Glittering with gold and precious stones

View attachment 226915


Constantine and not Peter, was the first pope and emperor. The RCC today still considers the office of the pope as also being emperor and that all people are to be come under the authority of the pope and belong to the RCC. Anyone who does not is considered a Heretic. Unfortunately for them, they do not currently have the power to enforce the popes authority over the rulers of the earth. However, when that antichrist comes, the woman (Roman Catholicism) will ride the beast, meaning that she will use the antichrist/beast to enforce her religious authority upon all people. I personally believe that, one of the future popes is going to play the part of the second beast, the false prophet, who of course is the leader of the RCC. It is he who will be performing those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast/antichrist in order to support his claim of being God or anything that is called god.

Hope this answered your question.
Rev 17:8 The beast, because it was, and is not, and is to come.
The beast is not during the Whore of Babylon period.

The Whore of Babylon seems to come before the two witnesses.

Rev 11:7 and when [the two witnesses] have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the Abyss will make war on [the two witnesses]...
So the beast in Rev 11:7 is to come

Now in Rev 13 the beast rises out of the sea, not the Abyss.
So the beast in Rev 13 appears to be the beast that was.

So the events in Rev 13 happens first.
Then the events in Rev 17 happen after the events in Rev 13.
Then events in Rev 11 happen after events in Rev 17.

Make any sense???
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#27
Yep! She began with Constantine and throughout history controlled kings and their armies through the threat of excommunication, all the way up to 1798. She wants that power back and will obtain it through riding that beast, i.e. using him to reestablish her power.
OK, so we both recognize Constantine as a starting point of something major. Good!
I guess where I see it differently is that Constantine started the cooperation of the 1st and 2nd beast in Rev 13.

I see Rev 13 (the first and second beast) transitioning over to the the Whore of Babylon beginning around 1798. I am not set in stone on every point though.

I agree with your last sentence as well. She wants her power back and will obtain it through riding on the beast.
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#28
But the old and new testament are still giving testimony to every generation.
"It says that Jesus said, “It is finished.” It also says that, “We overcome the Devil by the blood of the Lamb and by our testimony.” The blood of the lamb was done 2000 years ago, but the testimonies continue for every believer. "
via Preston Venzant

We give the testimony ..the Witnesses finished ..no?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#29
Man is appointed to die once and then face judgement.
Yes.

If two human men, where is their death and judgement before being cast into the lake of fire???
Those who are not in Christ, humans like the beast and false prophet, will appear before the Greath White Throne judgment seat of God at some point after their physical death.

According to the Revelation 20:11-15 they'll come from the sea, death, and hell. After that judgement takes place, whosoever is not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life is cast into the lake of fire. Death and hell are also cast into the lake of fire.

I'm not really sure exactly when after physical death, whether it's instantly or a point in the future. It seems like the sea, death, and hell are a distinctly different place or thing than the lake of fire.

Fortunately, Christians get to go to the judgment seat of Christ, receive mercy for their sins, and receive rewards based on whatever our good works were according to 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and 2 Corinthians 5:9-10.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#30
Rev 17:8 The beast, because it was, and is not, and is to come.
The beast is not during the Whore of Babylon period.
No! The angels says, 'the beast you saw once was, now is not and yet will come.'

Once was = He was once out in the world

Now is not = He is currently (from John's time frame) not in the world, but is in the Abyss.

And yet will come = He is currently in the Abyss, but is going to be coming out of the Abyss, which he does at the sounding of the 5th trumpet.

The Whore of Babylon seems to come before the two witnesses.
Mystery, Bablyon the Great, is already here and began with Constantine. The reason that the woman/RCC is called Mystery Babylon, is because most of the practices and rituals that stemmed from pagan Babylon can be found in Roman Catholicism.

Rev 11:7 and when [the two witnesses] have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the Abyss will make war on [the two witnesses]... So the beast in Rev 11:7 is to come


The beast that comes up from the Abyss, is not specifying a time, but is just stating that he is going to come up.

Revelation 17:8 says the same thing:

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction."

It doesn't say when he will come up, but just that he will. However, we know that he comes up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, because that is where he is first introduced and is where the Abyss is opened by that angel. He is the king of those demonic beings that resemble locusts with tails and stings like scorpions. The two witnesses will have begun their time of prophesy at the beginning of the seven years and will be killed in the middle of the seven years. The 5th trumpet sounds just prior to the middle of the seven years, which is when he overpowers and kills the two witnesses.

Now in Rev 13 the beast rises out of the sea, not the Abyss.
So the beast in Rev 13 appears to be the beast that was.
The reference to him rising out of the sea, is not referring to the literal ocean. The second beast is said to rise out of the earth, but not literally.

So the events in Rev 13 happens first.
Then the events in Rev 17 happen after the events in Rev 13.
Then events in Rev 11 happen after events in Rev 17.
This is not the chronological order that these things will happen.

The 5th trumpet is where the beast, that fallen angel will come up out of the Abyss. It is speaking about the same place that those demons collectively called 'Legion' begged Jesus not to send them into. And it is the same place that Satan is going to be bound in for a thousand years. So yes, the beast/fallen angel, will be coming up out of the Abyss at the 5th trumpet and will then kill the two witnesses and will become the power behind the antichrist, the man of lawlessness.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#31
If the testimony ended with the Bible Canon ..all this already happened.
Your (Preterist) claims that all things within the bible canon has happened is false.

There will be a future human evil man that will fulfill Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man of Sin), and John's (The Beast)

There will be a future Great Tribulation for 3.5 years

There will be future (Two Witnesses) Rev 11, that will bring literal plagues during this tribulation, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt.

There will be a future second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the existing heaven and earth by fire
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#32
Your (Preterist) claims that all things within the bible canon has happened is false.

There will be a future human evil man that will fulfill Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man of Sin), and John's (The Beast)

There will be a future Great Tribulation for 3.5 years

There will be future (Two Witnesses) Rev 11, that will bring literal plagues during this tribulation, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt.

There will be a future second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the existing heaven and earth by fire
I think we are about to be in the plague stage if the covid virus wasn't the first one.
 

Truth7t7

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#33
Yes.



Those who are not in Christ, humans like the beast and false prophet, will appear before the Greath White Throne judgment seat of God at some point after their physical death.

According to the Revelation 20:11-15 they'll come from the sea, death, and hell. After that judgement takes place, whosoever is not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life is cast into the lake of fire. Death and hell are also cast into the lake of fire.

I'm not really sure exactly when after physical death, whether it's instantly or a point in the future. It seems like the sea, death, and hell are a distinctly different place or thing than the lake of fire.

Fortunately, Christians get to go to the judgment seat of Christ, receive mercy for their sins, and receive rewards based on whatever our good works were according to 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and 2 Corinthians 5:9-10.
The Lords Judgement will be by fire, all mens that have lived will be judged by this fire at the second coming.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
 

Truth7t7

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#34
I think we are about to be in the plague stage if the covid virus wasn't the first one.
The beginning of plagues, when satan is loosed, and the bottomless pit has been opened.

Revelation 9:2-5KJV
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

The Vial plagues below, brought by the (Two Witnesses) seen in Rev 11, a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt.

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
 

Truth7t7

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#35
The angel also tells John that "The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls." Purple and scarlet are the exact colors warn by the Bishops and Cardinals within the RCC.



And Glittering with gold and precious stones

View attachment 226915


Constantine and not Peter, was the first pope and emperor. The RCC today still considers the office of the pope as also being emperor and that all people are to be come under the authority of the pope and belong to the RCC. Anyone who does not is considered a Heretic. Unfortunately for them, they do not currently have the power to enforce the popes authority over the rulers of the earth. However, when that antichrist comes, the woman (Roman Catholicism) will ride the beast, meaning that she will use the antichrist/beast to enforce her religious authority upon all people. I personally believe that, one of the future popes is going to play the part of the second beast, the false prophet, who of course is the leader of the RCC. It is he who will be performing those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast/antichrist in order to support his claim of being God or anything that is called god.

Hope this answered your question.
Jerusalem is the woman, the whore, mystery Babylon the great, and the purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones represents the Dressing of the high priest in the Levitical priesthood, in Jerusalem.

Revelation 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Levitical High Priest Dressing, Gold, Purple, Scarlet, And Precious Stones

Exodus 28:15-21KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
21 And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.
 

Truth7t7

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#36
The angel also says that the seven heads represent seven hills/mountains upon which the woman sits. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. This information is pointing us to the headquarters of the pagan religious system that would later become Roman Catholicism
(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
 

Truth7t7

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#37
Why can satan annoy the sh!t out of me if he is in a bottomless pit right now?
I believe the loosing of satan is nothing more than symbolic of God letting the prophetically actions happen

Is satan bound in literal chains in the bottomless pit?

No, I believe he is bound by God, to perform his will in prophetic time lines, pretty simple
 
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#38
I believe the loosing of satan is nothing more than symbolic of God letting the prophetically actions happen

Is satan bound in literal chains in the bottomless pit?

No, I believe he is bound by God, to perform his will in prophetic time lines, pretty simple
I wonder if it is similar to the protection God removed from job so satan could test him.
 

Truth7t7

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#39
I wonder if it is similar to the protection God removed from job so satan could test him.
The story of Job is a perfect example, God had a hedge of protection around Job, his family, and possessions

God laid out the ground rules, and satan was confined to Gods words

Scripture is very clear below, the year, month, day, hour, is Pre-Determined for the Angel's below, as is many of the prophetic time lines in the scripture.

Revelation 9:15KJV
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
 

luigi

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#40
(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.
Jerusalem does not meet the criteria of the city that currently rules over all kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). The city that rules over all kingdoms of the earth is the one whose economic policies are those that all the kingdoms of the earth strive to emulate. This city whose economic policies the worlds kingdoms strive to emulate is therefore deemed responsible for all the murders that are committed throughout the whole earth (Revelation 18:24).

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.