How to be Born Again

[tribesman]

Yeah yeah the old arminian argument
give me a break man, that gets old,
the only people who recieve gifts of the spirit are those who have been anointed by the spirit. That is a special gift only given to some. Not everyone even has it.
but hey, if you want to believe it, feel fee

I believe you say this because you believe that the unregenerate can have saving faith (if they "want to").

I cannot see how all believers can NOT have the gift of faith. It's not that I "want" to believe so, that's the conclusion I draw from scripture.

Yeah it does ring a bell
why?
because they WERE JUSTIFIED,
we are justified BY FAITH.
hence no one, and I mean no one is regenerated or made alive until they are justified, whch will not happen until the person says yes in faith

Faith is here is not a condition to be fulfilled by the sinner but an instrument by which he receives justification.

Yep
ypu have regeneration before justification
impossible my friend. Until they are justified they are in sin, as long as they are in sin, they are DEAD..

Can you be justified without being regenerated? Is that what you mean?

Nope
i am saying he did what jesus commanded, and became poor in spirit, brought their by whatever God did to draw him, and he called out on the lord, and the lord did what he promised, and saved him at that moment,

Do you believe he could have resisted this grace?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe you say this because you believe that the unregenerate can have saving faith (if they "want to").

I believe by Gods sovereign will, and his character of being a loving God, not the type of God Satan wants the world to believe he is, the dictator who attaches strings to everyone and tells them what to do like mindless robots, that according to his Devine will he wants all to come to repentance. So he offers all salvation, but he is not going to force anyone to chose him, he wants us to desire his help. So he sends the spirit to draw all men to himself, and those who see and believe are given life. Not because they earned it we can never earn it, but that is his will, all who see and believe he gives eternal life, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. The hope which God gives is what we trust, God’s work, not ours. This nonsense that faith in Christ is a work is not biblical and not sense all.our faith is in God his work and his promise, that’s not earning anything

I cannot see how all believers can NOT have the gift of faith. It's not that I "want" to believe so, that's the conclusion I draw from scripture.

romans 1 explain it, although they knew god, they rejected him, they know they are deserving of eternal death, they just deny it,

Faith is here is not a condition to be fulfilled by the sinner but an instrument by which he receives justification.

amen, grace through faith,

Can you be justified without being regenerated? Is that what you mean?

we are dead because of sin, which means sin must be justified before we can be made alive,

we can not be regenerated UNTIL we are justified, you have it backwards,

Do you believe he could have resisted this grace?

Israel resisted gods grace, they saw Gods grace by freeing them, then rebelled and died in the wilderness. people do it all the time, the fact we are living is by the grace of God, we do Not deserve the right to walk this earth,[/quote][/quote]

 

[brightfame52]

I'm asking about John 6. The meaning of the verse has to be understood in its immediate context of the chapter and book first before we go tip toeing through the bible to ' harmonise ' .

You just said you didnt want me to explain scripture. Make up your mind Jn 6:44,65 teaches man naturally cant come to Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Back to John 6 . Go back a few verses to 39 ( let's try focus on the chapter in question, this is usually tricky for some Christians to do ) 39
“That every one which SEETH the Son...raise HIM up at the last day”

I believe this verse means what it says, do you ?

I dont need to. Those drawn are drawn by the power of God, otherwise man doesnt have the ability to come to Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

John 6.39

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
When the resurrection on the “last day” takes place, every Christian who got saved from Acts 2 to the Rapture (1 Thess. 4; 1 Cor. 15) will have already been reigning a thousand years on earth with Christ (Rev. 20:1–6), having been “conformed to His image” (sinless perfection) BEFORE the Millennial Reign begins.

Man naturally cant come to Christ, hes spiritually dead, hasnt the spiritual ability Jn 6:44,65

 

[throughfaith]

You just said you didnt want me to explain scripture. Make up your mind Jn 6:44,65 teaches man naturally cant come to Christ.

please Quote a verse that SAYS that for today please ? Especially in light of John 12.32 ?

 

[throughfaith]

I dont need to. Those drawn are drawn by the power of God, otherwise man doesnt have the ability to come to Christ.

Thats just your doctrine of ' irresistible grace ' speaking, because you've swallowed the Augustine pill .

 

[throughfaith]

Man naturally cant come to Christ, hes spiritually dead, hasnt the spiritual ability Jn 6:44,65

Then read John 12.32 . Look at the number 6 and then count 7,8,9,10,11,12 .. This is how it works. One time the Father draws ..now ALL draw by Jesus . Thus ' draw ' cannot mean What you have been duped by .

 

[throughfaith]

Man naturally cant come to Christ, hes spiritually dead, hasnt the spiritual ability Jn 6:44,65

John 6:44—a pre-crucifixion passage

 

[throughfaith]

Man naturally cant come to Christ, hes spiritually dead, hasnt the spiritual ability Jn 6:44,65

John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the WORLD. of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

 

[throughfaith]

Man naturally cant come to Christ, hes spiritually dead, hasnt the spiritual ability Jn 6:44,65

Acts 11
18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
If anyone is a gentile they have been granted Repentence.

 

[brightfame52]

please Quote a verse that SAYS that for today please ? Especially in light of John 12.32 ?

You not going to tell me what to do. Man cannot come to Christ except they are drawn, thats New Birth.

 

[brightfame52]

Then read John 12.32 . Look at the number 6 and then count 7,8,9,10,11,12 .. This is how it works. One time the Father draws ..now ALL draw by Jesus . Thus ' draw ' cannot mean What you have been duped by .

All that are drawn will come, because they are being drawn by the ower of Christ, thats the New Birth.

 

[brightfame52]

John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the WORLD. of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Okay, still man naturally cant come to Christ. It takes the work of the Spirit in the New Birth

 

[brightfame52]

Acts 11
18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
If anyone is a gentile they have been granted Repentence.

You just saying anything now. I have a thread here about repentance, went into much detail.

 

[throughfaith]

You not going to tell me what to do. Man cannot come to Christ except they are drawn, thats New Birth.

I said please twice there .

 

[throughfaith]

All that are drawn will come, because they are being drawn by the ower of Christ, thats the New Birth.

John 12.32 completely refutes calvin .

 

[throughfaith]

You just saying anything now. I have a thread here about repentance, went into much detail.

No that verse literally says THE Gentiles have been granted repentence . You are not a bible believer. You might be a Christian, but your not a Bible believer.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes I have explained, and not going to do it again.

You NEVER explained what you think "refused" means, so quit making that claim.

If you did, at least note which post # your explanation is in.

But I don't expect that you will, because you NEVER did in the first place.

I find it interesting that those who don't provide verses that actually say what they claim also don't comply with requests for a re-statement of things they say.

Such as your post here. You claim you gave an explanation, but you have no proof that you did.

This is a GREAT opportunity to prove your claim by either:
1. just give it again. Not too difficult.
2. cite the post # where you claim you did.

Either one of these isn't a difficult task.

The really difficult task is to cite a post # when there is none that has an explanation of what "refused" means.

And that's the problem that you face.

I've been down this road with many calvinists many times. And none of them ever come up with actual evidence for their claims.

Maybe you'll be different and DO have some evidence.

When someone claims that I haven't provided an answer to a question, I am always HAPPY to repeat myself.

I am interesting in proving my position and teaching others. So I never cop-out by saying "I've already done that and I'm not going to do it again". Nothing but a big old cop-out.

You never did. So do it at least once. Or prove that you already did by citing the post #.

Failing that, you will be proved a dishonest person. And not to ever be believed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Man has no ability to come to Christ/Believe in Christ Jn 6:44,65. Sure he can come once he is a new creature by the Spirit. One has to be Spiritual to be taught of God.

There you go again; ignoring John 6:45. The Bible says that "God has taught everyone". Not "some" or "many" or a "few".

And I've given the PROOF that faith precedes regeneration from Eph 2;5 and 8.

Were you not able to read and/or understand?