How to be Born Again

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CorrectiveLens

Banned
#561
Dec 30, 2020
868
228
43
#561
brightfame52 said:
Its not possible for the natural man to please God Rom 8:8, yet Faith is pleasing to God, however sinners in the flesh, the natural man cannot produce Faith. God must first work by giving a sinner a new birth otherwise the natural man would not have Faith and could not have Faith, nor do anything that could please God, do you understand ?
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Don't forget that the Holy Spirit of God sanctifies the sinner. Sometimes sanctification is instantaneous and sometimes it takes longer( up to a lifetime). Meanwhile, the person might still be in the flesh until the Holy Spirit changes him completely. Even Paul stuggled with his flesh. We are not to judge the person but his actions.
 
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CorrectiveLens

Banned
#562
Dec 30, 2020
868
228
43
#562
throughfaith said:
Yes I understand the syllogism Calvinism teaches based on Augustines views leading to regeneration precedes faith. The bible however never says this ,so its a man made theology. The bible however says faith comes by hearing. The bible says it pleases him when people believe. What calvinism is saying if you get passed the sales pitch is that there's one thing man cannot do . And that's ' believe the Gospel ' . That's it. All you would need to do was find a verse that says that man can't believe the Gospel, because faith and repentence is withheld from some . Just something that actually says this . But we find nothing. Its inference .
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John 1: 12-13 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the children of God, even (that is) to them that beliieve on His name; Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#563
#563
tribesman said:
How do you think that makes sense? You have some other scriptures to back up the claim of two different faiths in one? There is an initial faith and then there's a secondary faith?

Is this not a necessary clause for people who believe in unregenerates ability to believe? Do you understand that it would collision against scriptures saying that the world cannot receive the Spirit and that noone can say that Jesus is Lord if not by the Spirit?

This is basically an arminian error (denial of total depravity, positive view of man), since they believe that the unregenerate can believe. Hence it follows that you have to differ between natural man's faith and Spirit given faith. However, scripture makes no such distinction.
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Yeah yeah the old arminian argument

give me a break man, that gets old,

the only people who recieve gifts of the spirit are those who have been anointed by the spirit. That is a special gift only given to some. Not everyone even has it.
but hey, if you want to believe it, feel fee
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#564
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#564
brightfame52 said:
Its not possible for the natural man to please God Rom 8:8, yet Faith is pleasing to God, however sinners in the flesh, the natural man cannot produce Faith. God must first work by giving a sinner a new birth otherwise the natural man would not have Faith and could not have Faith, nor do anything that could please God, do you understand ?
Click to expand...
Hab 2.4 ( OT )
4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by HIS faith.
Heb 11 ( OT )
4¶By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5¶By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
No regeneration is happening yet ( this is assumed )
You can't assume without a verse ?
In light of
John 7 .
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The holy Spirit which is the promise to come came after Jesus sends him in Acts 2 . Acts 2 is the start of ' regeneration ' . Your ideological possession causes you to completely miss all these points.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#565
#565
tribesman said:
They are raised by God from death to life. Does that ring a bell? Meaning that God do really justify the ungodly is an evidence of their total inability to co-operate in that working.
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Yeah it does ring a bell

why?

because they WERE JUSTIFIED,

we are justified BY FAITH.

hence no one, and I mean no one is regenerated or made alive until they are justified, whch will not happen until the person says yes in faith
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#566
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#566
CorrectiveLens said:
John 1: 12-13 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the children of God, even (that is) to them that beliieve on His name; Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.
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This is really a silly argument ,it amazes me why this verse is brought up . Do you think some believe they regenerate themselves?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#567
#567
tribesman said:
I have lost you here bro. I am absolutely confirming that the Holy Ghost convicts sinners of their sin as well as regenerates them by which they call out to the Lord. This is not the work or co-work of the sinner.
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Yep

ypu have regeneration before justification

impossible my friend. Until they are justified they are in sin, as long as they are in sin, they are DEAD..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#568
#568
tribesman said:
Are you saying that as a result of him kneeling he filled a "condition" to be justified?
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Nope

i am saying he did what jesus commanded, and became poor in spirit, brought their by whatever God did to draw him, and he called out on the lord, and the lord did what he promised, and saved him at that moment,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#569
#569
brightfame52 said:
Right, they have to be saved by regeneration first before they can have Faith Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
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Wrong

we are saved by grace through faith

apart from faith their is no salvation.

we are not born again in sin,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#570
#570
brightfame52 said:
It has to be scriptural first.
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Yep I agree

i always go to scripture first. And when my experience verifies scripture. It just makes scripture more real.
That’s how it works.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#571
#571
CorrectiveLens said:
John 1: 12-13 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the children of God, even (that is) to them that beliieve on His name; Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.
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Amen

they want to leave the recieving part out.

younwill not recieve apart from faith, and until you recieve your not a child of God, (born again)
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#572
Nov 21, 2020
6,484
597
113
#572
throughfaith said:
Yes I understand the syllogism Calvinism teaches based on Augustines views leading to regeneration precedes faith. The bible however never says this ,so its a man made theology. The bible however says faith comes by hearing. The bible says it pleases him when people believe. What calvinism is saying if you get passed the sales pitch is that there's one thing man cannot do . And that's ' believe the Gospel ' . That's it. All you would need to do was find a verse that says that man can't believe the Gospel, because faith and repentence is withheld from some . Just something that actually says this . But we find nothing. Its inference .
Click to expand...
Man naturally cannot please God, so he naturally cant produce Faith.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#573
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#573
CorrectiveLens said:
John 1: 12-13 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the children of God, even (that is) to them that beliieve on His name; Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.
Click to expand...
Yes. What in there do you think someone could possibly teach contrary to it ? Where is this sect that believes they can 'birth 'themselves ?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#574
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#574
brightfame52 said:
Man naturally cannot please God, so he naturally cant produce Faith.
Click to expand...
And yet the bible is literally filled with unregenerated people believing God . So it must mean your interpretation is wrong . If it said unregenerated people cannot believe the Gospel unless they are regenerated first you would have a point . Your adding the extra bit into ' cannot please God ,therefore must mean they can't believe God also .
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#575
Nov 21, 2020
6,484
597
113
#575
throughfaith said:
Yes I understand the syllogism Calvinism teaches based on Augustines views leading to regeneration precedes faith. The bible however never says this ,so its a man made theology. The bible however says faith comes by hearing. The bible says it pleases him when people believe. What calvinism is saying if you get passed the sales pitch is that there's one thing man cannot do . And that's ' believe the Gospel ' . That's it. All you would need to do was find a verse that says that man can't believe the Gospel, because faith and repentence is withheld from some . Just something that actually says this . But we find nothing. Its inference .
Click to expand...
They who are in the flesh cannot please God, Faith pleases God.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#576
Nov 21, 2020
6,484
597
113
#576
throughfaith said:
From the old testament alone how would you know they were regenerated? What verse says so . I don't mean inference because of what we see in the New testament.
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If God pronounce men Just, they lived by Faith Hab 2:4

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Man naturally cant please God by living by Faith
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#577
Nov 21, 2020
6,484
597
113
#577
CorrectiveLens said:
Don't forget that the Holy Spirit of God sanctifies the sinner. Sometimes sanctification is instantaneous and sometimes it takes longer( up to a lifetime). Meanwhile, the person might still be in the flesh until the Holy Spirit changes him completely. Even Paul stuggled with his flesh. We are not to judge the person but his actions.
Click to expand...
Hogwash, one is either in the flesh unregenerate or in the Spirit regenerate. Born again or not born again
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#578
Nov 21, 2020
6,484
597
113
#578
throughfaith said:
Hab 2.4 ( OT )
4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by HIS faith.
Heb 11 ( OT )
4¶By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5¶By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
No regeneration is happening yet ( this is assumed )
You can't assume without a verse ?
In light of
John 7 .
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The holy Spirit which is the promise to come came after Jesus sends him in Acts 2 . Acts 2 is the start of ' regeneration ' . Your ideological possession causes you to completely miss all these points.
Click to expand...
Nowhere is it stated that Acts 2 is the start of regeneration, new birth. Men lived by Faith in the OT, Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, not of the flesh, hence they which are in the flesh [ the unregenerate] cannot please God.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#579
Nov 21, 2020
6,484
597
113
#579
eternally-gratefull said:
Wrong

we are saved by grace through faith

apart from faith their is no salvation.

we are not born again in sin,
Click to expand...
No thats right. One has to be regenerated by the Spirit before they can produce Faith, because they which are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8
 
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