God's People were "The Literal Jews", and now are "The Spiritual Jews" No one else..
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Yep, none of them even heard the name of Jesus. Yet were saved. So I am not following you at all, you ask how the people before Jesus were saved, then agree with my answer, then go to say "None of them involve believing 1 Cor 15-14".
Okay????
I am not following your point here, you mean they didn't believe in a book about events that haven't happen yet, that did even exist yet. At the risk of sounding rude, you're just stating the obvious here, do you think this keeps their sins from being punished on the cross so they could be forgiven? It seems like you're acting as if this isn't possible for a all powerful God that created everything, and exist outside time and space can pull off something like this. Buty I honestly don't know what your main point is here, or honestly where we disagree, but if you think the Jews have another plan for them later, or another loophole that allows them to deny the Son, Jesus, I have to say I think this is totally false, wrong, and actually hateful to the Jews to suggest there's any hope outside Jesus when we are clearly told that if you deny the Son you do not have the Father, period. I really wish you'd clear spell out exactly what you're saying, what you agree and disagree with that I've said, because it doesn't seem we've disagreed on very much, but I still don't have a very clear idea of what your points in this conversation have even been. Thanks.
Okay????
I am not following your point here, you mean they didn't believe in a book about events that haven't happen yet, that did even exist yet. At the risk of sounding rude, you're just stating the obvious here, do you think this keeps their sins from being punished on the cross so they could be forgiven? It seems like you're acting as if this isn't possible for a all powerful God that created everything, and exist outside time and space can pull off something like this. Buty I honestly don't know what your main point is here, or honestly where we disagree, but if you think the Jews have another plan for them later, or another loophole that allows them to deny the Son, Jesus, I have to say I think this is totally false, wrong, and actually hateful to the Jews to suggest there's any hope outside Jesus when we are clearly told that if you deny the Son you do not have the Father, period. I really wish you'd clear spell out exactly what you're saying, what you agree and disagree with that I've said, because it doesn't seem we've disagreed on very much, but I still don't have a very clear idea of what your points in this conversation have even been. Thanks.
If you read Hebrews 11 literally, they were saved by putting their faith in what God told them to do. Their faith involves a work of some kind.
For example, Abel offered the correct sacrifice Hebrews 11:4, Cain didn't want to even after God gave Cain a second chance by reminding him to do what Abel did. (Genesis 4:7). Note that it was about doing for both of them.
Abel was saved by that faith, shown by his work.
THAT is what I am saying. God never told Abel and Cain that his son will die for their sins and rise again on the 3rd day (aka 1 Cor 15:1-4)
For example, Abel offered the correct sacrifice Hebrews 11:4, Cain didn't want to even after God gave Cain a second chance by reminding him to do what Abel did. (Genesis 4:7). Note that it was about doing for both of them.
Abel was saved by that faith, shown by his work.
THAT is what I am saying. God never told Abel and Cain that his son will die for their sins and rise again on the 3rd day (aka 1 Cor 15:1-4)
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
There is no direct scripture that says "Offer an animal sacrifice to me", if that is what you are looking for.
It is understood that both Abel and Cain knew how to approach God, they most likely learned it from their parents, who recognized the difference God sees between animal sacrifices and plant coverings (Genesis 3:7 and Genesis 3:21).
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https://www.goodseed.com/blog/2014/...old-cain-and-abel-to-bring-a-blood-sacrifice/
A. First of all, we do know that God talked to Abel and Cain—apparently audibly.
Then the LORD said to Cain, ”Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?”
God must have talked to them often, as there is not even one hint of terror or fear in Cain’s demeanor. Later on in the Scriptures we see records of angels talking to Zacharias, the shepherds and Mary, with these individuals showing significant apprehension. But in Genesis 4, nothing in the record comes across as this conversation being some sort of exception to the rule. We can safely say that God did converse with Cain and Abel. This can also be said of other godly men whose lives are recorded in the early pages of the Bible.
B. Secondly, we know that God had at least one conversation prior to the sacrifice being offered. God, in speaking to Cain, referred to what was “right.” The Lord referred back to a preceding conversation.
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it” (Genesis 4:7).
God could not have phrased his question/statement in the way he did if Cain did not know what was right to do. God even implied that Cain knew how to “master” his sin. Both of these indicate prior knowledge, prior conversations. That prior conversation(s) would have had to contain the essential details we saw above. The fact that Cain and Abel even knew to offer a sacrifice of any kind implies knowledge gained from God. We saw that such knowledge does not naturally reside in the human heart. We do not instinctively like or make sacrifices.
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
There is no direct scripture that says "Offer an animal sacrifice to me", if that is what you are looking for.
It is understood that both Abel and Cain knew how to approach God, they most likely learned it from their parents, who recognized the difference God sees between animal sacrifices and plant coverings (Genesis 3:7 and Genesis 3:21).
=====
https://www.goodseed.com/blog/2014/...old-cain-and-abel-to-bring-a-blood-sacrifice/
A. First of all, we do know that God talked to Abel and Cain—apparently audibly.
Then the LORD said to Cain, ”Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?”
God must have talked to them often, as there is not even one hint of terror or fear in Cain’s demeanor. Later on in the Scriptures we see records of angels talking to Zacharias, the shepherds and Mary, with these individuals showing significant apprehension. But in Genesis 4, nothing in the record comes across as this conversation being some sort of exception to the rule. We can safely say that God did converse with Cain and Abel. This can also be said of other godly men whose lives are recorded in the early pages of the Bible.
B. Secondly, we know that God had at least one conversation prior to the sacrifice being offered. God, in speaking to Cain, referred to what was “right.” The Lord referred back to a preceding conversation.
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it” (Genesis 4:7).
God could not have phrased his question/statement in the way he did if Cain did not know what was right to do. God even implied that Cain knew how to “master” his sin. Both of these indicate prior knowledge, prior conversations. That prior conversation(s) would have had to contain the essential details we saw above. The fact that Cain and Abel even knew to offer a sacrifice of any kind implies knowledge gained from God. We saw that such knowledge does not naturally reside in the human heart. We do not instinctively like or make sacrifices.
That's plausible even though not explicitly stated, I can't assume that's what happened because that doesn't rule out the possibility that they just decided to offer an unsolicited sacrifice.
If God had communicated to them the kind of sacrifice He wanted to see then Cain and Abel should have made sacrifices similar in scope and selflessness though not necessarily the same thing.
Might have just been the model God chose for the sacrificial law system that came later, which was just a shadow of things to come, the reality being the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ that forgives sins forever.
In other places it says "in burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased." Rather it's our genuine love and good deeds God likes.
Ever look at these two verses together? I feel like I'm having a breakthrough on something...
2 Corinthians 9:7
7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Hebrews 13:15-16
15Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise, the fruit of lips that confess His name. 16And do not neglect to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
If God had communicated to them the kind of sacrifice He wanted to see then Cain and Abel should have made sacrifices similar in scope and selflessness though not necessarily the same thing.
Might have just been the model God chose for the sacrificial law system that came later, which was just a shadow of things to come, the reality being the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ that forgives sins forever.
In other places it says "in burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased." Rather it's our genuine love and good deeds God likes.
Ever look at these two verses together? I feel like I'm having a breakthrough on something...
2 Corinthians 9:7
7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Hebrews 13:15-16
15Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise, the fruit of lips that confess His name. 16And do not neglect to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
I admit I prefer a literalist's view of Genesis 4 and Hebrews 11. The word "obey" isn't found there in the case of Cain and Abel's sacrifice.
I've noticed some versions (such as The Living Bible) add the words "Abel obeyed God" into Hebrews 11:4 but that translation isn't found in the KJV or many other versions.
Based solely off the literal texts, without theorizing or assuming God commanded a sacrifice, Cain and Abel both acted on faith, but Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice and Abel's sacrifice was righteous and Cain's wasn't.
Hebrews 11:4 (KJV)
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
I've noticed some versions (such as The Living Bible) add the words "Abel obeyed God" into Hebrews 11:4 but that translation isn't found in the KJV or many other versions.
Based solely off the literal texts, without theorizing or assuming God commanded a sacrifice, Cain and Abel both acted on faith, but Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice and Abel's sacrifice was righteous and Cain's wasn't.
Hebrews 11:4 (KJV)
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
All distinctions of race, gender and religion are erased in Christ. We are born again. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They were not Jews. God told Abraham that all the families of the earth would be blessed through him. Yes, Lord Jesus traces His humanity back to Abraham (and to Adam, of course). Israel is a physical manifestation and testimony to God's power and ability to make His word come to pass. The Church is the spiritual equivalent. I was born again before I knew anything about the OT and Israel. If I never heard of Jews, I would still be born again. And no, I'm not a Roman Catholic.
Addressing the OP,
not reading all the post, .... but this topic question was answered correctly by MattforJesus at post #7, here's the link to that post. https://christianchat.com/threads/g...piritual-jews-no-one-else.198152/post-4520609
Spiritual Jews are anyone who is Born of God, John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." and God is a Spirit, hence you, the inward man is spirit. and hence the term "spiritual", now being Jewish,
the outward man is not a Jew even if he wears a shtreimel and a tallit, or a Hasidic garb, or a garte, with or without a beard. THAT'S NOT A JEW, nor the color of one's skin makes them a Jew neither, supportive scripture, Romans 9:4 "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;"
Romans 9:5 "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."
Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (one might want to read that again).
Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."
Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
BINGO, there it is. "the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God".
PICJAG, 101G.
not reading all the post, .... but this topic question was answered correctly by MattforJesus at post #7, here's the link to that post. https://christianchat.com/threads/g...piritual-jews-no-one-else.198152/post-4520609
Spiritual Jews are anyone who is Born of God, John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." and God is a Spirit, hence you, the inward man is spirit. and hence the term "spiritual", now being Jewish,
the outward man is not a Jew even if he wears a shtreimel and a tallit, or a Hasidic garb, or a garte, with or without a beard. THAT'S NOT A JEW, nor the color of one's skin makes them a Jew neither, supportive scripture, Romans 9:4 "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;"
Romans 9:5 "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."
Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (one might want to read that again).
Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."
Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
BINGO, there it is. "the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God".
PICJAG, 101G.
In Daniel 9:24, a decree was pronounced on Israel and Jerusalem of seventy seven year periods, which were divided up into three parts:
7 seven year periods (49 years) = To restore and rebuild Jerusalem
62 seven year periods (434 years) = At the end of which, the Messiah was cut off, which was Christ Crucified.
There remains one seven year period to be fulfilled, which God will do at the very end of the age. Therefore, since it will be the fulfillment of what was pronounced upon Israel, then the fulfillment will be upon the literal nation of Israel, with its purpose being as follows:
"to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
It is during this same time that God will be pouring out His wrath upon a Christ rejecting world via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
7 seven year periods (49 years) = To restore and rebuild Jerusalem
62 seven year periods (434 years) = At the end of which, the Messiah was cut off, which was Christ Crucified.
There remains one seven year period to be fulfilled, which God will do at the very end of the age. Therefore, since it will be the fulfillment of what was pronounced upon Israel, then the fulfillment will be upon the literal nation of Israel, with its purpose being as follows:
"to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
It is during this same time that God will be pouring out His wrath upon a Christ rejecting world via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
I agree to disagree! You need to read the Holy Bible book of Mathew, Luke, and John! It will tell you plainly that Christians are grafted into with the Jews to the family of GOD! We are one family in GOD! As the first disciples (ones that broke the bread with Jesus in the upper room! Yes those guys! Yes! They all became the first Christians in Antioch after the cross! They were the first Christians! They did not go back to being Jewish! They did what Jesus told them to do in the Holy Bible! And went through out the world to various places evangelizing and sharing the message of Jesus Christ! How cool is that?!!
D ; ) smiley! Wink!
D ; ) smiley! Wink!
You get the HOLY GHOST when you get baptized! This seals your faith in GOD! As the Holy Ghost will protect you, heal you, teach you the Holy Bible, convict you of your sins! Set you on the right track with Jesus Christ! You cant lose with the Holy Ghost inside you! At baptism you become the temple for the Holy Ghost, and he lives inside you! And you are cleansed with his living water! Praise GOD so healing! PRAISE GOD FOR THE HOLY GHOST HEALING! GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME! SO TAKE YOUR HEALING TODAY!
D ; ) smiley! Wink!
D ; ) smiley! Wink!
YES OUR SALVATION IS FROM THE JEWS! BECAUSE JESUS WAS A JEW TO BEGIN WITH! BUT THE HOLY BIBLE AND JESUS IN MATHEW CLEARLY SPEAK AGAINST RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY! JESUS SAYS DONT DO IT! WE ARE GRAFTED INTO ONE FAMILY OF GOD! JEWS AND CHRISTIANS BOTH INTO ONE FAMILY OF GOD! SO READ YOUR HOLY BIBLE! BE IN THE KNOW! ONE MAN ARMY OR FAMILY OF GOD! SHARE THE LOVE TODAY! AS MANY ARE HUNGRY FOR JESUS! THEY WANT TO JOIN THE FAMILY OF GOD! SHARE IT WITH THEM! ..... You need to read the Holy Bible book of Mathew, Luke, and John! It will tell you plainly that Christians are grafted into with the Jews to the family of GOD! We are one family in GOD! As the first disciples (ones that broke the bread with Jesus in the upper room! Yes those guys! Yes! They all became the first Christians in Antioch after the cross! They were the first Christians! They did not go back to being Jewish! They did what Jesus told them to do in the Holy Bible! And went through out the world to various places evangelizing and sharing the message of Jesus Christ! How cool is that?!!
D ; ) smiley! Wink![/QUOTE]
D ; ) smiley! Wink![/QUOTE]
The format of your post is quite confusing.
Where is the term "Spiritual Jew" in the scripture you quoted? Yes, I would like to know the answer to that question as well? Being that the Jews only have one book (The first book of the Holy Bible) Where as the Christians are blessed with the whole Holy Bible book and its wisdom, truth, scriptures and words of Jesus to meditate, read, ponder, apply to their lives, and share with others! Its such a huge blessing from GOD! And we have the whole book! Praise GOD and his wisdom and word! For the Holy Bible says, GOD is the word, and the word is GOD! And all those that accept Jesus Christ in their hearts and are saved....ARE THE TRUE REMENANT OF ISRAEL! -HOLY BIBLE! ALSO READ JOHN 3:16 FOR GOD!!! SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHO SO EVER BELIEVETH IN HIM, SHALL NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE!!! PRAISE GOD! AND JOHN 14:6 AND JESUS SAID....FOR I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE! AND NO MAN COMES UNTO THE FATHER GOD BUT BY ME!!! WOW! SO PROFOUND THAT TRUTH!!! AND JOHN 3:33-37 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[ a] gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. SO THERE YA GO! GOD IS SOOOOO GOOD! I LOVE THE WORD OF GOD! ITS WONDERFUL! I LOVE GOD! I GUESS THEY CALL ME A....HOLY ROLLER!!! I KINDA LIKE THE WAY THAT SOUNDS! SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!!!! OH WELL.......I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE GOD! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE THE WORD OF GOD!!!! SOOOOO GOOD! READ IT TODAY, AND CONNECT WITH YOUR CREATOR GOD! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID! PEACE AND LOVE ALL IN JESUS CHRIST!!!! (THE FATHER, HIS SON, AND THE HOLY GHOST = JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR! D ; ) SMILEY! WINK! (IF I DONT DRIVE YOU CRAZY, PERHAPS I CAN MAKE YOU SMILE?!!! LOVE YOU ALL! PEACE!)
Where is the term "Spiritual Jew" in the scripture you quoted? Yes, I would like to know the answer to that question as well? Being that the Jews only have one book (The first book of the Holy Bible) Where as the Christians are blessed with the whole Holy Bible book and its wisdom, truth, scriptures and words of Jesus to meditate, read, ponder, apply to their lives, and share with others! Its such a huge blessing from GOD! And we have the whole book! Praise GOD and his wisdom and word! For the Holy Bible says, GOD is the word, and the word is GOD! And all those that accept Jesus Christ in their hearts and are saved....ARE THE TRUE REMENANT OF ISRAEL! -HOLY BIBLE! ALSO READ JOHN 3:16 FOR GOD!!! SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHO SO EVER BELIEVETH IN HIM, SHALL NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE!!! PRAISE GOD! AND JOHN 14:6 AND JESUS SAID....FOR I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE! AND NO MAN COMES UNTO THE FATHER GOD BUT BY ME!!! WOW! SO PROFOUND THAT TRUTH!!! AND JOHN 3:33-37 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[ a] gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. SO THERE YA GO! GOD IS SOOOOO GOOD! I LOVE THE WORD OF GOD! ITS WONDERFUL! I LOVE GOD! I GUESS THEY CALL ME A....HOLY ROLLER!!! I KINDA LIKE THE WAY THAT SOUNDS! SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!!!! OH WELL.......I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE GOD! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE THE WORD OF GOD!!!! SOOOOO GOOD! READ IT TODAY, AND CONNECT WITH YOUR CREATOR GOD! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID! PEACE AND LOVE ALL IN JESUS CHRIST!!!! (THE FATHER, HIS SON, AND THE HOLY GHOST = JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR! D ; ) SMILEY! WINK! (IF I DONT DRIVE YOU CRAZY, PERHAPS I CAN MAKE YOU SMILE?!!! LOVE YOU ALL! PEACE!)
For three hundred years, all who were brought to the Messiah learned exclusively from the original writings, that is the Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets. All that is and was needed to know about our Savior, Jesus, is written in those writing.
Along came theologian's who complied the writings of the New Testament.
A spiritual Jew would be any person who praises God in spirit and truth.
Of course one cannot make a lot of sense of the compilation of the New Testament without knowledge of the Old.
Along came theologian's who complied the writings of the New Testament.
A spiritual Jew would be any person who praises God in spirit and truth.
Of course one cannot make a lot of sense of the compilation of the New Testament without knowledge of the Old.
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