Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I said no such thing. However, should you feel the need to confess anything that's on your heart by all means do so....

Awww . . . another kind post!

Come on . . . please stop.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

She cannot speak authoritatively in the ekklesia. Furthermore in the home or in public she is to submit to her husbands authority.

Anything to the contrary would be chaos and mayhem. Leading to a breakdown of the Church and the family. This much is obvious.

JESUS IS RISEN!!

And I say that with authority.

 

[Dino246]

You are very welcome.

Actually there is NO debate to be done at all.

God said in 1 Tinothy 3:1-2............
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"

The Word of God is not open for debate.

It is either accepted or it is rejected.

The choice is yours.

You're right; it isn't open for debate. The Greek does not have male nouns and pronouns with the exception of "husband".

It is either accepted or it is rejected.

The choice is yours.

 

[Dino246]

She cannot speak authoritatively in the ekklesia. Furthermore in the home or in public she is to submit to her husbands authority.

Anything to the contrary would be chaos and mayhem. Leading to a breakdown of the Church and the family. This much is obvious.

Irrelevant for an unmarried woman, and irrelevant if she is married and her husband approves of her speaking authoritatively in the ekklesia.

Claiming that a female speaking would be chaos, mayhem, and lead to a breakdown of the Church and family is being dense and silly.

 

[Truth7t7]

thanks for the reply, but again we reject your assessment, the term "succourer" is plain as day, it’s the feminine of a derivative of G4291
a derivative comes from something else. let us place this in plain view. if I say, "Prophetess", where do it come from, or is derived from? answer, "Prophet", a Prophetess is simply a FEMALE Prophet.

a Female in the same position of a male in General Overseering or Pastoring/Bishop is here in our sister case, a succouer.

PICJAG, 101G.

Women are to remain silent in the church, let alone being a Bishop/Pastor/Deacon

You aren't changing Gods words below, or my opinion of them, simple

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Truth7t7]

Irrelevant for an unmarried woman, and irrelevant if she is married and her husband approves of her speaking authoritatively in the ekklesia.

Claiming that a female speaking would be chaos, mayhem, and lead to a breakdown of the Church and family is being dense and silly.

Is that what Joyce Myers and Paula White teach?

 

[101G]

Heavens no. Phoebe was engaged in the same sorts activities as the women during Christ's earthly ministry. Logistics, material support, hospitality, washing the feet of the saints etc.

if this is all, then tell us this, "what was these women doing with the apostle Paul?", listen. Philippians 4:3 "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life."

well I'm sure that they was not "labouring in the kitchen". the verse is Clear, these women was in the GOSPEL.

so I cannot accept your assertion here.

but thanks for the try.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

Women are to remain silent in the church, let alone being a Bishop/Pastor/Deacon

You aren't changing Gods words below, or my opinion of them, simple

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

I believe I have already addressed this, see my post here

https://christianchat.com/threads/are-women-pastors-biblical.196631/post-4525309

and here,

https://christianchat.com/threads/are-women-pastors-biblical.196631/post-4525362

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[Dino246]

You might need to read this more than once...

We have gone down quite the rabbit hole, challenging many premises along the way. But to bring things back to the reason we are here...
When I exhaustively defined the connective conjunction ("for") of 1 Tim 2:12 and 1 Tim 2:13-14, the conversation went in this direction:



I then went on to see if you have to understand commandments from God in order to accept them. I chose a relevant commandment to this discussion (to respond to your hermeneutic and bring us back to the topic at hand):


You have not responded to this.
Non-Sequitur. But I decided to consider the challenge (still considering it)...

As a reminder, you wanted this to remain Biblical and without speculation:

I agreed to the tone of conversation (after all, this is the "Biblical discussions page") :
You "liked" this comment, but then removed your "like" for some reason.

Paul was a master of the Law. I am sure he had better insight and was able to point out principles that you may never identify. I will let you agree with me on Paul's superior knowledge of the Law. (again)
...who knows...maybe The Holy Spirit pointed something out that Paul didn't even know about the Law (again, which can mean the torah or the tenak). The possible explanations are endless. But regardless of the explanation, we do have to deal with the text.
You don't have to accept anyone's explanation. You have to accept what has been written...unless...you have evidence that what is written is not, in fact, "the commandment of the Lord". Let's see if you have any evidence...
;


After all this, I have 3 things to say (to end this rabbit trail and return to the original subject):
1. The linchpin of your position (that 1 Corinthians 14:4-35 is something Paul is quoting and not "the commandment of the Lord") hangs on an unconfirmed suspicion. It's irrelevant and incredibly insulting to the Holy Spirit.
2. Every time I pin your position down and force you to deal with the simple, obvious Scripture (indicated by the green text above), your hermeneutic is that something has to make sense to you before you can accept it. (hence the red text above). My friend, the Holy Spirit will never teach you anything new if you close your mind this way.
3. For a moment, let's ignore that Paul connected authority with origination more than once (1 Cor 11), and explain to me the definition of the connecting conjunction "for" between 1 Tim 2:12 and 1 Tim 2:13-14. Your "explanation" (post# 943) contains no exegetical analysis of the word "for". It may not seem logical to you (because you don't agree with the obvious conclusion), but what Paul says in 1 Tim 2 is true, just as are the rest of His inspired writings. Every word is true, including the word "for"...

Then go ahead...Tell me what "for" means, contextually in 1 Tim 2:12-14.

1. I used the term, "unconfirmed suspicion" because I don't have handy the references for the position though I have heard/read it more than once. I find your comment about the Holy Spirit quite ridiculous'; bluntly, you ain't Him. Further, I'm not obligated to you to provide something to satisfy you. You will disagree no matter how much effort I put into my response.
2. I don't accept your interpretation of the text as being "simple, obvious Scripture".
3. I have explained the "for" in 1 Timothy 2. I reject any explanation that depends on the non sequitur, "Adam was formed first, therefore women should be silent".

I've stated this before, though perhaps not to you. There is a principle of hermeneutics: "If the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense." Well, the plain sense of these passages does not make sense. So, I don't accept it, and I keep digging.

 

[Dino246]

Is that what Joyce Myers and Paula White teach?

Asked and answered. Try not to be a complete idiot.

 

[Truth7t7]

I believe I have already addressed this, see my post here

https://christianchat.com/threads/are-women-pastors-biblical.196631/post-4525309

and here,

https://christianchat.com/threads/are-women-pastors-biblical.196631/post-4525362

PICJAG, 101G.

Your Havent Addressed Anything, Gods Words Are True Below, Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

Women are to remain silent in the church, let alone being a Bishop/Pastor/Deacon

You aren't changing Gods words below, or my opinion of them, simple

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Truth7t7]

Asked and answered. Try not to be a complete idiot.

Bully The Playground, Teacher Help!

 

[101G]

Your Havent Addressed Anything, Gods Words Are True Below, Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

Women are to remain silent in the church, let alone being a Bishop/Pastor/Deacon

You aren't changing Gods words below, or my opinion of them, simple

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Thanks for your reply, if there is something I posted that you didn't understand, please ask, and we can discuss it.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[cv5]

What you have written above . . . is this how you operate within your family?

Absolutely yes. I have a great marriage as a result of both parties willingly receiving and ABIDING in the councel of the Apostles. Which is the Word of God to us His Church.

 

[cv5]

if this is all, then tell us this, "what was these women doing with the apostle Paul?", listen. Philippians 4:3 "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life."

well I'm sure that they was not "labouring in the kitchen". the verse is Clear, these women was in the GOSPEL.

so I cannot accept your assertion here.

but thanks for the try.

PICJAG, 101G.

I think we can agree that she was not giving Paul commands.
And yes, she was certainly fulfilling a womans role in SUPPORTING Pauls ministry.

 

[Dino246]

I believe I have already addressed this, see my post here

https://christianchat.com/threads/are-women-pastors-biblical.196631/post-4525309

and here,

https://christianchat.com/threads/are-women-pastors-biblical.196631/post-4525362

PICJAG, 101G.

Sadly, that one will ignore what you've posted and repeat his own posts. Save yourself the effort.

 

[Dino246]

I think we can agree that she was not giving Paul commands.
And yes, she was certainly fulfilling a womans role in SUPPORTING Pauls ministry.

Within the context of the Church, no Christian should be giving commands to any other (adult) Christian, regardless of gender.

 

[101G]

I think we can agree that she was not giving Paul commands.
And yes, she was certainly fulfilling a womans role in SUPPORTING Pauls ministry.

thanks for the reply, but where did the command come from? see, men just inject no-truths. this is no where in the scriptures where anyone is commanding each other in, in, in, the Gospel, except the Lord Jesus.

and the laboured with me in the gospel is ment preaching and working in the MINISTRY. scripture, 1 Corinthians 15:10 "But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."
1 Corinthians 15:11 "Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed."

this is what laboured in the Gospel means, "so we preach", so now to use your tactics, where in the bible it say the apostle Paul was a Help in someone else ministry, in cleaning up the kitchen, or mopping up the floor?.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

Sadly, that one will ignore what you've posted and repeat his own posts. Save yourself the effort.

ok, thanks.

be blessed.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[Major]

There are no male nouns/pronouns here either. Again completely unnecessary.
1 Tim 3:5
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Well, may I say to you that we need to take 1 Timothy 2 and 3 together because the case for male-only eldership straddles both chapters. Chapter 2 is taken as the negative prohibition against women teaching men. Chapter 3 is taken as the positive prescription for men teaching as elders.

The first consideration is that Greek is a gendered language with gendered pronouns, like Spanish but unlike English. Greek does not have a generic non-gendered pronoun, and the masculine singular pronoun ‘he’ or ‘him’ is used when referring to a person of either gender.

So when we find a masculine pronoun like ‘he’ or ‘him’ or ‘his’, we need to determine from both the immediate and wider context whether the writer is speaking exclusively about men or inclusively about both genders. Likewise, the masculine plural pronoun ‘they (men)’ or ‘them (men)’ are used when referring to a group of people of both genders.

That being said......."The HUSBAND of one wife" indicates that the CONTEXT is on the MAN.