Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

[tribesman]

I prefer the term "self will" since man's will is constrained by many factors.

However, we are asked/exhorted to choose to believe and have faith.

If man has no choice in the matter, why would God punish those who do not choose to believe in Him?

Call it self-will if you like. The old, natural, unregenerate man has no self-will to respond to or follow God. He is at enmity with God, a child of wrath. For him the gospel is foolishness. All this is scripture, and you know that.

It is only the new, regenerate, man who want to believe. Only the new man is spiritual. Do not mix the characteristics of the old and new man.

 

[Magenta]

Call it self-will if you like. The old, natural, unregenerate man has no self-will to respond to or follow God. He is at enmity with God, a child of wrath. For him the gospel is foolishness. All this is scripture, and you know that.

It is only the new, regenerate, man who want to believe. Only the new man is spiritual. Do not mix the characteristics of the old and new man.

Yes, I know, and you may also know I agree However, even the regenerated person operates under self will at times.

Also, God making it possible does not mean God makes that choice for us. We still have a choice to make.

Otherwise their would be no point in reward or punishment based on choice.

 

[tribesman]

Yes, I know, and you may also know I agree However, even the regenerated person operates under self will at times.

Again: do NOT confuse, confound or MIX the old and new man with one another. The old man is at enmity with God, whilst the new man may at times struggle with his flesh but has that new nature within him that delights in the law.

Also, God making it possible does not mean God makes that choice for us. We still have a choice to make.

The dead cannot choose before they have been raised, can they? It's God who take that initiative and it's a monergistic work. We are but mere passive recipients of an undeserved pardon. So it hangs not upon the old man's "ability" to be smarter than others to "choose the right". It's God's choice.

And to God ALONE be all glory.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The Lord said I have not come to abolish the Law..but to fulfill it....

therefore we must believe Moses....that which God spoke in the beginning ....the great commandment...
To obey

the Gospel is the descent of Lord.....with the same utterance...the Holy Father speaks
yet man does not perceive....

as The Lord said..you diligently seek the scriptures yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life...
such is the nature of man...unbelief....
everyone is arguing in the dark about things they do not understand....
only in the light is the treasure made visible

The Lord said I have not come to abolish the Law..but to fulfill it....

therefore we must believe Moses....that which God spoke in the beginning ....the great commandment...
To obey

the Gospel is the descent of Lord.....with the same utterance...the Holy Father speaks
yet man does not perceive....

as The Lord said..you diligently seek the scriptures yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life...
such is the nature of man...unbelief....
everyone is arguing in the dark about things they do not understand....
only in the light is the treasure made visible

But If you don't obey the law perfectly then your Imperfect obedience will not be acceptable, although the law Is GODs perfect standard of righteousness you are carnal and will be brought Into captivity to sin because of the weakness of the flesh.

 

[Magenta]

Again: do NOT confuse, confound or MIX the old and new man with one another. The old man is at enmity with God, whilst the new man may at times struggle with his flesh but has that new nature within him that delights in the law.

The dead cannot choose before they have been raised, can they? It's God who take that initiative and it's a monergistic work. We are but mere passive recipients of an undeserved pardon. So it hangs not upon the old man's "ability" to be smarter than others to "choose the right". It's God's choice.

And to God ALONE be all glory.

I already said, God makes it possible.

Are you trying to say He makes the choice to believe for us also?

Or do you agree that we have a choice to make?

 

[throughfaith]

If you put the onus on the human, then what you get is humanism. Jesus said it was impossible for men to achieve salvation, yet you think that could be read as there's somehow a burden on man to take himself by the collar and work up some faith? It has to be philosophy of men who take you to such conclusions, not scripture.

Ya, to your logic, maybe. It is more "logic" to think that God expect a dead person to work something? Paul likens salvation as to resurrection from the dead in Ephesians 2. So, did Lazarus have a say in being raised from the dead? He "responded positively to the calling out of his own free will"?

See, once you get that God does not owe any man anything, you are more likely to understand this.

If you believe in Jesus, then it's God's doing that you do so. Not your own doing.

I'm completely the opposite on this. Calvinists think they have some how over come these hard things . These tuff truths that other mere mortals don't have the stomach for . My issue with Calvinism is that its terrible only because of lack of scriptures that say any of its 5 points .

 

[notuptome]

And, your point is? You seem to be a very confused man with problems to engage in rational conversations.

Children are considered innocent until they reach an age where they can form intent. So very person at a point in time chooses to sin.

*sighs* It's the second time you told me this same thing, but you have not yet replied to my questions to you on this matter. Nobody, not even you I guess, would like to continue such a conversation. You are perhaps just trolling.

More likely you are asking questions have no definite answer and are speculative.

LOL! Total oxymoron. I take it that you are a private person just cooking up your own private thinking, and it's a confused mess.

Again you impress upon others that which you find in yourself. Judging me based on your own faults.

And there we have it. You accused me of questioning people's salvation and now you say you "should probably consider" me as unregenerate - because I do not buy into your private made sophistries. Again, you show your hypocrisy, which is certainly not a good sign on your own behalf.

Give me something other than election to believe that you are saved. You could only have a head knowledge of Christ.

Your ignorance about what election/predestination means as to salvation, is certainly another not good sign. Add to this the fact that you believe in a false gospel conditioned on the sinner. Then Rom.10:1-4 applies.

Again you find in others the faults that are your own. Calvinism is a false religious system.

Positive. But do not worry about me or others, worry about yourself instead and the grave confusion you hold on to.

You do argue with the Word of God, not me.

We are done talking.

To God ALONE be the glory.

You have not given any evidence that you have a biblical soteriology. You claim to be elect but your concept of election is based on a false understanding of scripture. Then you accuse others to cover your own poor doctrine. So much of the same unbelief as was found in Israel who was the elect among the nations. Nothing more to say if you were not called to Christ and submitted yourself to Him for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[tribesman]

I already said, God makes it possible.

Are you trying to say He makes the choice to believe for us also?

Or do you agree that we have a choice to make?

If you read my post carefully you would have seen that I do not agree with that. Not when it comes to unregenerate man.

Read my post again. And I'll also share how George Whitefield viewed this matter:

Man is nothing: he has a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do of His good pleasure. -George Whitefield.

 

[Blik]

Again: do NOT confuse, confound or MIX the old and new man with one another. The old man is at enmity with God, whilst the new man may at times struggle with his flesh but has that new nature within him that delights in the law.

The dead cannot choose before they have been raised, can they? It's God who take that initiative and it's a monergistic work. We are but mere passive recipients of an undeserved pardon. So it hangs not upon the old man's "ability" to be smarter than others to "choose the right". It's God's choice.

And to God ALONE be all glory.

Are you saying that when we decide to accept Christ and become a new man, then God takes away our right to make any more choices? I do no believe that could possibly be true..

 

[tribesman]

Are you saying that when we decide to accept Christ and become a new man, then God takes away our right to make any more choices? I do no believe that could possibly be true..

No, I have not said that. The new man may have his choices, as God gives him ability. But the old man cannot choose to become a new man, out of his own free will , more than a dead man can choose to become raised from the dead. The choice of that matter is solely at the hands of the one who has power to raise someone from the dead.

 

[Magenta]

If you read my post carefully you would have seen that I do not agree with that. Not when it comes to unregenerate man.

Read my post again. And I'll also share how George Whitefield viewed this matter:

Do you choose as a regenerated person to believe or not? To surrender to God?

Or once regenerated do you have no choice? The regenerated person has no choice?

I don't need to read your post again. Your comprehension suffers.

Either we choose or we do not. If you made no choice, just say so.

 

[tribesman]

Do you choose as a regenerated person to believe or not? To surrender to God?

Faith comes as a fruit of regeneration.

Or once regenerated do you have no choice? The regenerated person has no choice?

An inevitable result or fruit of regeneration is faith and embracing the Lord. It can't be any other way around.

I don't need to read your post again. Your comprehension suffers.

Eh? What in my comprehension do you mean suffer? It was not me who asked you something that you had already stated, was it? (Hope you'll not resort into pie throwing).

Either we choose or we do not. If you made no choice, just say so.

So, here is comprehension issues. I already said in several posts here that this is not a choosing matter as for our old man. What is unclear in that to you?

What is your doctrinal tradition and fellowship?

 

[Magenta]

Faith comes as a fruit of regeneration.

An inevitable result or fruit of regeneration is faith and embracing the Lord. It can't be any other way around.

Eh? What in my comprehension do you mean suffer? It was not me who asked you something that you had already stated, was it? (Hope you'll not resort into pie throwing).

So, here is comprehension issues. I already said in several posts here that this is not a choosing matter as for our old man. What is unclear in that to you?

What is your doctrinal tradition and fellowship?

Why is it so unclear to you that I am not speaking of the un-regenerated person? You keep inserting them into the convo and then claiming I don't understand something when it is you who fails to comprehend. It seems you just don't want to answer the question.

 

[tribesman]

Why is it so unclear to you that I am not speaking of the un-regenerated person? You keep inserting them into the convo and then claiming I don't understand something when it is you who fails to comprehend. It seems you just don't want to answer the question.

Miss, we can bounce this back and forth for hours on end. What is unclear to you in my reply post #392? It would be totally unnatural for the regenerate person NOT to believe, NOT to surrender. So, it wouldn't happen. Negative.

And I still ask what your doctrinal tradition and fellowship are?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Most "christians" have never even read the Old Testament, and if they did, it is so incredibly remote that one who did would even understand it.

 

[notuptome]

Call it self-will if you like. The old, natural, unregenerate man has no self-will to respond to or follow God. He is at enmity with God, a child of wrath. For him the gospel is foolishness. All this is scripture, and you know that.

It is only the new, regenerate, man who want to believe. Only the new man is spiritual. Do not mix the characteristics of the old and new man.

That's not what scripture teaches. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. God uses the foolishness of preaching to bring men to salvation.

You are negating the ministry of the Holy Spirit. You are not saved, regenerated, until you are saved. How does a Calvinist become saved?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Magenta]

Miss, we can bounce this back and forth for hours on end. What is unclear to you in my reply post #392? It would be totally unnatural for the regenerate person NOT to believe, NOT to surrender. So, it wouldn't happen. Negative.

And I still ask what your doctrinal tradition and fellowship are?

That is not unclear to me at all, so you wrongly assume, falsely accuse, and continually project your lack of comprehension ono me. Since you refuse to answer my question, why should I answer yours? What church I attend has nothing to do with any of this Red herring.

 

[tribesman]

That is not unclear to me at all, so you wrongly assume, falsely accuse, and continually project your lack of comprehension ono me. Since you refuse to answer my question, why should I answer yours?

Where is my false accusation? And about what? Are you getting angry about something and if so, why?

Taken that there might have been some misunderstandings earlier, you have been answered in posts #392 and #394. Negative it says, means no.

Again:

Do you choose as a regenerated person to believe or not? To surrender to God?

The term "choose" I believe is not altogether applicable actually, but if one wants to use that term then the answer is that such choosing would always be positive. No regenerated person would choose to not believe.

Or once regenerated do you have no choice? The regenerated person has no choice?

Would someone who claimed to be regenerate "choose" not to believe then that person cannot have been regenerate.

 

[tribesman]

... What church I attend has nothing to do with any of this Red herring.

It is relevant (where people "come from" doctrinally and fellowship-wise) when discussing important doctrine. At these boards however there are plenty of "lonely sailors", who are by themselves and reject just about everyone and everything else and have their own mix of private doctrines. Hence I ask sometimes where people are "coming from".

 

[throughfaith]

Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

One reason is because of the false teaching called "dispensationalism".

Its called 'we notice things different' ism .