I thought I responded to that in a previous post. I don't believe those are Paul's words, which makes your question moot.
Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
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Now that we're understanding that PASTORING is a "GIFT", and not an OFFICE, now we can get to the Facts of the Matter.
Fact #1. Pastoring is a GIFT of the Holy Ghost. supportive scripture, OT, first. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"
Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit."
A. Women can preach, "and your daughters shall prophesy" prophesying is not just foretelling a future event which "Prophet" do, but prophet also PREACH. was not Jonah a prophet? yes, so did Jonah preach? supportive scripture, Jonah 3:1 "And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,"
Jonah 3:2 "Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee." the preaching was the foretelling of the city future, salvation, or destruction. well women, are prophets, and a prophet ... "PREACH", so women do preach.
but what about women in the work of Pastoring? answer, same scriptures, which was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, and the out pouring of the Spiritual Gifts. Acts 2:14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:"
Acts 2:15 "For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day."
Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"
Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
Acts 2:18 "And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"
Now, how is this in response to women being "PASTORS?" here's why.... the Spiritual Gifts which was poured out on Pentecost are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
FACT #2. note, in verse 10, Peter spoke in divers kinds of tongues on the day of pentecost, but here's the "REVELATION GIFT", of women Pastors. verse 8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
lets break it down, a word of WISDOM is UNDERSTANDING, Proverbs 1:2 "To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;" so if I speak a WORD of WISDOM to you, you will get "UNDERSTANDING", now a Word of KNOWLEDGE, self explanatory, is KNOWLEDGE, so a WORD of Wisdom gives "KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING. Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding." now what are pastors for? answer, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."
so Pastoring is a "GIFT" of the Holy Spirit, and remember in Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"
all flesh is not JUST "MALE" flesh with the Gifts, for if God just give the male the Gift of Pastoring, then he's a respecter of Persons, (which he is NOT). for in his BODY, there is neither Male, nor female. scripture, Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
God do not discriminate. as sid before, for the sake of the discussion, a Holy Ghost filled "Female", is no less that a Holy Ghost filled "Male", for the Gift is nether the males, nor the Females, but of God.
so the TRUE FACTS is, Women can preach, teach, and PASTOR/BISHOP, just as men. it's God choice who he ordains in his Church, that he bought and paid for. not our choice.
PICJAG,
101G.
PS, a re-read of this post might be need for clarity, and for edification of the saints.
Fact #1. Pastoring is a GIFT of the Holy Ghost. supportive scripture, OT, first. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"
Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit."
A. Women can preach, "and your daughters shall prophesy" prophesying is not just foretelling a future event which "Prophet" do, but prophet also PREACH. was not Jonah a prophet? yes, so did Jonah preach? supportive scripture, Jonah 3:1 "And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,"
Jonah 3:2 "Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee." the preaching was the foretelling of the city future, salvation, or destruction. well women, are prophets, and a prophet ... "PREACH", so women do preach.
but what about women in the work of Pastoring? answer, same scriptures, which was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, and the out pouring of the Spiritual Gifts. Acts 2:14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:"
Acts 2:15 "For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day."
Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"
Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
Acts 2:18 "And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"
Now, how is this in response to women being "PASTORS?" here's why.... the Spiritual Gifts which was poured out on Pentecost are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
FACT #2. note, in verse 10, Peter spoke in divers kinds of tongues on the day of pentecost, but here's the "REVELATION GIFT", of women Pastors. verse 8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
lets break it down, a word of WISDOM is UNDERSTANDING, Proverbs 1:2 "To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;" so if I speak a WORD of WISDOM to you, you will get "UNDERSTANDING", now a Word of KNOWLEDGE, self explanatory, is KNOWLEDGE, so a WORD of Wisdom gives "KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING. Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding." now what are pastors for? answer, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."
so Pastoring is a "GIFT" of the Holy Spirit, and remember in Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"
all flesh is not JUST "MALE" flesh with the Gifts, for if God just give the male the Gift of Pastoring, then he's a respecter of Persons, (which he is NOT). for in his BODY, there is neither Male, nor female. scripture, Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
God do not discriminate. as sid before, for the sake of the discussion, a Holy Ghost filled "Female", is no less that a Holy Ghost filled "Male", for the Gift is nether the males, nor the Females, but of God.
so the TRUE FACTS is, Women can preach, teach, and PASTOR/BISHOP, just as men. it's God choice who he ordains in his Church, that he bought and paid for. not our choice.
PICJAG,
101G.
PS, a re-read of this post might be need for clarity, and for edification of the saints.
You have not said that to me. Perhaps in another thread of responses, you may have said that to another member. Do you believe
1 Corinthians has more than 1 author? If so, just tell me the post number(s) and I can go back and read what you already said, so you don't have to retype anything.
Do you believe 1 Corinthians has more than 1 author? If so, just tell me the post number(s) and I can go back and read what you already said, so you don't have to retype anything.
In a nutshell, I believe (as do many) that Paul was quoting a letter sent to him by the Corinthians. He makes reference to it several times throughout his letter.
so now, knowing that Women can preach teach, and Pastor, according to the scriptures, my question is this, " clearly God said he ordain, and appoint apostles, prophets, and Teachers, why are there no ordination of prophets and teachers who are women in many of the churches today?". now I know this is not applied to all churches, but the the majority.
PICJAG,
101G.
PICJAG,
101G.
I do not agree on this. Women indeed can be gifted and workers for God as well as men, but women were never ordained in Church.
First thanks for the reply, second, I must disagree, and accept the word of God.
do not God ordain prophets? and was not Anna a prophet? Luke 2:36 "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"
Luke 2:37 "And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day."
Luke 2:38 "And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem."
she serve GOD in the temple of God.
PICJAG,
101G
Friend, I have not said anything against what you quoted above. But, she were not ordained in the church. OK?
thanks for the reply, but never the less, I will make it plain. Romans 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:"
the term "COMMEND", is the Greek word, G4921 συνιστάω sunistao (sïn-iy-staō') v.
συνιστάνω sunistano (sïn-iy-sta'-nō) [strengthened]
συνίστημι sunistemi (sïn-iy'-stee-miy) [also]
1. to set together.
2. (by implication) to introduce (favorably).
3. (figuratively) to exhibit.
4. (intransitively) to stand near.
5. (figuratively) to constitute.
[from G4862 and G2476 (including its collateral forms)]
KJV: approve, commend, consist, make, stand (with)
Root(s): G4862, G2476
and "another" word for approve is "ORDAIN". which the apostles, by God have the Power to do. and by our sister Phebe being a Pastor/Bishop, she was the FIRST WOMAN overseer at the Church at ROME. I believe that covers the church concept of ordaining a woman in the church.
PICJAG,
101G.
Nope. In the context of which that was spoken/written I do not believe that the word "ordain" is a correct translation or rendering. If Paul ordained her then he would have been the first minister in church history (including OT times) at that time to do so. But Paul was not into breaking with any customs of the church, he walked orderly and kept the Law.
I repeat this, and this is biblical: no women were ordained in the church. As much as some dream up otherwise.
"customs of the church" ?
It was still a brand new endeavour at that time, they hadn't developed any customs yet.
I am talking about OT, as indicated in the post. I even stated it (including OT times). There was no change on that matter in NT.
Just because someone want things to be a certain way it doesn't mean it is that way. Always seek objective truth and mind all the facts and respect them. Seek and find what is principally the given pattern and not only look for exceptions. Ye do fare well if ye this do.
Perhaps some men would prefer a Herod's Temple style women's court model for church assemblies.
Some patterns are not meant to be sustained. We aren't doing animal sacrifices & burnt offerings.
Jesus set women free as well as men. Let us be so.
The pattern of sacrifices was well kept and sustained by the Lord Himself. We are free to follow and obey God. Let us keep all rebellion, ignorance and usurping far from us.
Apparently you're referring to the record of Scripture. Please tell us where any man was ordained to any office in the Church in Scripture. Let's have one standard.