Bargaining for Salvation (and/or other things)...?

[Lenoralana]

So... I have been reading the responses to my various other threads, even if I probably won't respond to them for at least a while because I am feeling emotionally drained right now for various reasons, and... I need some time to process some things.

But I have reached a tentative conclusion, particularly as a result of some things that have been said in response to what I've said....

I'm honestly not sure at this point if I am a Christian or not. I have only recently gotten back into a prayer habit, and God really has spoken to me in some ways in response, so... maybe it shows I have SOME sort of relationship if He and I can actually have some semblance of a conversation, not just once but a few times recently.

To some degree... I feel I HAVE been trying to work things out with God... at least I'm starting to try. I spent several hours over this last week just talking from the heart... about my disappointments, and just... a lot of things, including where I have been very hateful.

Yet, especially after reading some threads this morning... I do have to admit that there are probably some huge areas of my life, and my heart, where... I am still bargaining, or trying to.

Like... well, I guess it really is a lot areas where I am stagnating and even permitting myself to stall like a stubborn, bratty mule.

It's just kinda stuff like.....

1: I cant possibly proceed with anything in this world or this life until certain expectations (or borderline demands) are met... including... the country needs to either change back to the way it was during the 70's or 80's, at least in some regards that I really liked from those decades, or I'm gonna sit by until it does.

2: I was sorta promised by my Dad that I'd get a husband, possibly my own chunk of land and a house, and possibly a career that would make lots of money. A very valuable verbal voucher that it just so happens I still haven't been able to find where to go to cash it in. I guess on some level, somewhere deep in my mind and heart, I thought he was able to make such a claim in the same way promises were given to Abraham, Esau, etc etc. and they got great wealth and pretty much whatever they could have wanted. Thus, I felt horribly cheated, still feel cheated, and... maybe on some level, (Even if it is rather greedy, unrealistic and childish) there is still some deep-rooted, subconscious AND conscious part of me that feels I need to be given what I am due so I can proceed with... whatever it is God wants from me.

3: Before I can give myself over fully to God, I need Him to punish some people for some things they did that really hurt me and I need to see justice served. Otherwise, no deal.

And there's... more than that in some ways. Buuuut....

I do realize on some level at least that you don't get to bargain for what you want and it's also... not the right thing to do to with-hold yourself from God or keep nursing grudges cuz... you're the only one you're hurting, really. Just...

I dunno. Maybe there are some areas where I thought things in life would be far easier than they actually are, and... I haven't always been easy for other people to deal with, because I am quite stubborn and pig-headed and if there is something I REALLY don't want to do, nothing is ever gonna make me do it unless eventually, I myself decide to finally do it for any reason. But... I guess there are a number of areas where I have always felt a strong sense of abandonment and neglect.

It is just so easy for people to tell you what is expected and what they want done in some ways, but if the only people you had around (especailly during your youth) were people who did not have the patience or skill to be good teachers in some areas, and had too many of their own problems to pay attention to you...

Well, getting told "This is what we want done" without any real instruction (and having to deal with impatient teachers who just want you to get it right on the first try...) is gonna stunt your ability to learn, or get anything done... particularly if most of your homeschooling years were like that.

In a lot of ways... I guess I'm still an emotional swamp to some extent, and I'm not sure what or who I'm angry at at this point.

I'm angry at society and the entire educational system for becoming something so difficult that it's a wonder anyone can pass at all anymore... and I hope it all collaspes and they remake it in a way that makes more sense and lets people actually do things and learn things.

I'm angry that my parents gave me Santa Clause fantasy promises on behalf of God and they never happened. Useless verbal voucher.

To some extent... maybe I'm even angry that, when I tried going into the workforce for a little while (I was at a job for three years during my mid-twenties) it wasn't all that great and I never had all the time I wanted to have fun anymore or spend my money the way I wanted when I wanted.

I'm angry I never received much structure growing up, except for a bare-basics, rigid routine of "this is when we get up, eat breakfast, take care of chores and get Mom to work... the rest of the time we don't care what you do and we're just gonna ignore you. It's okay though, God is gonna work everything out and do great things with you once you turn 18 BECAUSE YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN AND YOU ARE SO SPECIAL"

I dunno. Maybe on some level... I'm still trying to work through some things and heal and get over my anger. Maybe................

Maybe.... part of me is still bargaining, or something, because in a way... I have always been taught that you shouldn't HAVE to do anything, because God is gonna work it out in the end. I was taught that Christians would never hurt you or betray you on a deep level because once they accept Christ, something magical happens in them and they are more resistant to sin or doing things that hurt others. I was taught that as long as you put at least a tiny, lackluster attempt into something and go through some motions... there you go, job done and God will do the rest eventually or give you whatever you want if you just wait long enough.

I... just dunno anymore in some ways.

 

[seoulsearch]

I guess on some level, somewhere deep in my mind and heart, I thought he was able to make such a claim in the same way promises were given to Abraham, Esau, etc etc. and they got great wealth and pretty much whatever they could have wanted. Thus, I felt horribly cheated, still feel cheated, and... maybe on some level, (Even if it is rather greedy, unrealistic and childish) there is still some deep-rooted, subconscious AND conscious part of me that feels I need to be given what I am due so I can proceed with... whatever it is God wants from me.

3: Before I can give myself over fully to God, I need Him to punish some people for some things they did that really hurt me and I need to see justice served. Otherwise, no deal.

Hi Lenoralana,

This part of your post really had me thinking about the times in my own life when I've had similar feelings as what you're describing. I think most every person experience this at some point or another, especially when dealing with dire circumstances, such as a life-or-death situation, whether involving oneself or a loved one (most certainly if facing the possible death of a child, etc.) "God, if you'll just...heal my child, etc., then I PROMISE I'll listen to you!"

Your thoughts had me thinking back to a friend I once had many years ago who was undoubtedly given a raw deal. He was a great guy, and a loving, faithful husband who always wanted to be a father, but he and his wife had no children. His wife started an affair, then left him when she became pregnant with this other man's child.

As you can imagine, this left my friend feeling bitter, forgotten, and left behind. He told me that for a long time, his attitude was, "Somebody owes me something, and they had better pay up!!!" (By the way, the story had a happy ending in that he got remarried a few years later,) but in the long, lonely years before he met his future second wife, he and I would often talk about how sometimes, situations like this make it feel as if that "someone who owes us something" is God.

However, what really helped jar me out of my own self-centered thinking was to ask myself questions such as:

* Who am I, anyway? What could God possibly need or want from me that would be so important that I would have a "right" to demand something from Him?

* Why do I have this belief that God "owes" me anything? Just because I exist? Is it some kind of birthright that because God made us, He owes us everything we want or dream of?

Of course, these are all false presumptions, and in the end, if it worked that way, GOD would be the one "getting a raw deal." I know part of what really changed my own thinking was realizing just how small I am -- just a grain of sand in a vast universe that God could puff away with the blink of His eye at any time.

I was just curious -- when you ask yourself these questions, what answers do you come up with for yourself?

As for God seeming to give some people in the Bible "everything they wanted," one thing you might find helpful is reading their entire story. Everything in this life comes at a cost.

I know one of the examples you used was Abraham -- if you read the story of his life, he had it far from easy, and God did not exactly give him everything he wanted. Abraham was called to leave his family and everything he ever knew just to follow God on an unknown path, and to an unknown place. He found himself in situations in which he feared powerful rulers of the land would kill him, to the point of telling them that his wife was his sister so that they could take her as their own and, he reasoned, hopefully allow him to live. He faced countless family dramas with his nephew, Lot, and son Ishmael, who was born out of his own impatience for what he also felt God owed him.

If you dig into the lives of the people of the Bible, their paths were not solid lines that only went straight up. They had a lot of zigs and zags, and plenty of highs and lows, and they paid heavy prices in order to follow God.

Which leaves me, in my own life, asking as well: Am I willing to pay the price God is telling me it costs to follow Him?

I'm just curious, as a framework for this discussion -- if God DID "hold up His end of the bargain" in giving you what you wanted before you would agree to a "deal" with Him, what do you feel you could offer Him in return that would make it worth it to "keep up His end of the deal"?

 

[Lynx]

1. You can't control what cards you are dealt. All you can control is how you play them.

2. God has never given me what I wanted, or even all I thought I needed, but in retrospect I have always had everything I really did need. What is needed depends on what it is needed for, the task at hand.

3. Be glad you don't have as much as some people. Much more is going to be required of them. Do what you can in life with what you have.

 

[Lenoralana]

Firstly... I just want to say I am relieved at the responses I've gotten, becuase... I dunno what I was expecting, but yesterday, after this thread was made public, I actually felt VERY embarrassed and I was half-tempted to ask one of the admins to please delete it... I guess I just felt like I was particularly whiny and overemotional in this one, but... it's still a relief to see people saying they know how it feels and don't simply call me out for being a big baby or anything. ^^; (Even if I kinda am....)

Anyway.... yeah, once again you guys have given me something to think about.

Honestly.... I am feeling a bit... humbled by the direct question about.... how even if God DID give me what I wanted and "lived up to His end of the bargain", what would I give in return? Especially considering I am only a teeny tiny fragment of all of creation... (Well, I still believe that humans are intended to set apart from the rest of creation because we're made in God's image, so that makes us a tad more noticeable than mere specks of dust, but... as I keep having to remind myself, that is also no reason to get egotistical in any way.)

I have had the basics of many Bible stories told me even if I never read the Bible, cuz... I did listen to a lot of Christian speakers on the radio during my tweens/teen years, who went over pretty much everything. But... needless to say, I am probably horrendously rusty at this point, it's been a long time and I've been through alot since those days.

Anyway yeah.... God actually did tell me through my mother somewhat recently that as much as anyone would love a straight beeline to whatever it is they want or are meant to have, that straight bike path is gonna have places where the road is washed out, thunderstorms, slippery slopes... but the destination will still be there at the end.

But yeah... the question of what I would give in return for what want... I think in some ways, the brutal, honest truth is... I don't know and there isn't much I would readily want to give. I think... in some ways, maybe God has been trying to get me more aware of how much of a spoiled brat I really am and have been for many years... I have already been somewhat aware of it, but perhaps not aware enough... or at least not willing to change all that much.

I mean... I've never had EVERYTHING I wanted... my family were never millionaires or anything, but... let's just say I got enough to where... especially now, in my adult years where my parents' health is ailing a bit more and I NEED to step up and help take care of them sometimes now (Even if they can still do most things for themselves), I.... am actually growing a bit more disgusted with how resistant I am at doing even basic things sometimes. Part of it could be my own mental issues because I am used to things going along a certain flow and I'm very routine-oriented and structured in that way, but at the same time... if your dad just got home from the hospital and has been instructed not to do much for a few days, he doesn't need you to get grumpy when asked to do something simple like cook breakfast.

I have been forced to slowly realize more and more... I'm used to having people do things for me, and.... I am getting better about it, and I am doing a lot more around the house these days than I would have a few years ago, so there's that.

But anyway... I am also reminded of what it was like to interact with my first ever crush, one of the very first guys I'd ever met online 16 years ago. He was a Mormon no-less. We had plenty of clashes, (and he also made it quite clear he wasn't interested in me in that way) buuuut....

Because of the way I was raised and some hopeful beliefs that Dad put in my head, well... I thought I had seen "certain signs" that this guy was it, my fiancee. So when this guy told me certain things, I thought it was the equivalent of being handed an engagement ring and I was waiting for him to make it official... even though, in reality, I don't think he ever had any idea THAT was what I was actually thinking. He thought we were just buddies or that I simply had a little puppy-dog crush on him. And... I kept getting angrier and more impatient, especially when he seemed clueless about why I was giving him an attitude or being mad all the time, because... I guess I had thought, back then, that if he was God's intended for me... he should already know, because he was an extension of me and our love was gonna bloom from the same place and the same thought process or something.

In retrospect... it was also a bit painful to keep seeing him go through the same cycle. In Mormon families, I think it is common for them to place great pressure on people getting married ASAP, and he himself had once told me that in his faith, they believe it's a commandment to get married. In some ways though... I kept finding flaws in this, because for one thing... he kept making it clear that they believed you wanted to take great care not to mess up when choosing a spouse, because you're supposedly gonna be joined with that person for all eternity.... yet he went through cycles of desperation where he'd pretty much go from girl to girl to girl... getting more upset when it didn't work out with each girl (again... what happened to "you gotta be careful when choosing your eternal spouse...?), but he was probably also receiving pressure from his church and his family. I could tell he was also getting frustrated with God, because whenever he complained to his elders about how he wasn't getting a spouse, they told him he needed to buckle down and change some things in his life to get more right with religion... so he did, and he still got nothing.

Anyway.... Lynx, when you said "3. Be glad you don't have as much as some people. Much more is going to be required of them. Do what you can in life with what you have." That.... actually reminds me of something my dad himself told me a long, long time ago... and I think he found inspiration in this himself.

Basically... he said that some people out there (Christian and sometimes otherwise) are sometimes very, very jealous of other Christians who seem to have more exciting lives, who seem to be doing more, or have better looks or more money or just... anything really. Buuuut... that maybe in reality, those people aren't so fortunate as we might want to believe, because if you're given more, you're expected to do more with it and maybe you're even held to a higher standard.

I think maybe.... something I need to keep reminding myself is... if the only things I need to worry about are cooking meals, keeping the place relatively clean, and going out on the occasional errand... my life is actually pretty golden.

 

[Lenoralana]

I guess another quick thought I wanted to jot down before I forget is... what you guys told me also reminds me of something I read on a Quora post once, where... especially if you grew up somewhat spoiled, in some cases... becoming an adult is kinda like being raised a princess in a mini mansion, just to grow up and find out you have go down and start working with the servants.

Well... in some ways I'd like to think I'm not QUITE as bad as that, because I've always had to do some things for almost as long as I can remember, my parents did at least teach me some disciplines and gave me some responsibilities... but there are still some areas where it's a bit of a struggle for me for various reasons lol

I guess another thing I'm still struggling to learn a bit is... it has been brought to my attention several times over that if I really want something, or I want to do something with someone... I have to communicate with them. There are even some people out there who would love to do something with me and try to accommodate me if I say flat-out what I'd like to do.

I guess in some cases... I would prefer it if the other person read my mind, or I thought that they would just know somehow because... if something is truly meant to be, why you should have to say anything? Both parties should simply be blooming from the same spot and they should both reach the conclusion that they'd want to do this thing equally, and I'd get invited along when the time is right. (For some reason, it's been tough for me to slowly learn that reality doesn't work like that....)

In other cases... for some reason, even maybe when I did get tentatively invited to do something... maybe part of it was social anxiety in the past, among other issues, but... I found I didn't want to bother. Or maybe I also failed to learn that sometimes, if you really want to hang out with someone, that sometimes means you gotta do some things, sometimes, that you aren't necessarily interested in or you might need to be willing to give something new a try.

 

[Lanolin]

well

I kinda look to God as my Father and dont try to do deals with Him, cos He is not a merchant or retailer and I dont have to earn my salvation, cos He has given to me free through Jesus.

Im thinking maybe you just dont know God or Jesus as well as you think you do. To clear up this misconception, how bout spend some time reading His word in the Bible.

Then you can read HIS mind in the Bible.

 

[Lenoralana]

Okay so... I have been mulling over everything that I have been told on this forum... and it's lead to new thoughts and some epiphanies, some I'm not prepared to share, at least not yet. ^^;

But I do have a new question.... it is actually something I have been wondering for a while now, but I am ready to ask it now.

You see.... even if much of my commenting and questioning about God may seem... negative, (and some people on this forum have even questioned whether or not I am actually a Christian... rightfully so I guess) well... in my own way, I HAVE been trying to get my relationship in God with order. Otherwise... I wouldn't be here talking about all the things I've been talking about openly and honestly.

A few days ago, I did something where I took some time for three days in a row (at least an hour during each session) to just... pray. To pray in a way I hadn't for a long, long time. I began my prayer something like, "Dear God, I would like to ask for forgiveness in advance if I sound at all disrespectful or demanding, but..." And then I simply prayed as a friend suggested... from the heart. She said any kind of prayer is fine as long as it's from the heart.

I prayed about many, many things... and I even began to feel more peaceful about some things after praying.

But.... for several years now, off and on, I have at least sorta been praying for something.... and I prayed for the exact same thing, during my sessions on those days last week or so.

I prayed if maybe He could work things out so I could go to Norway oneday (or if not there, then one place about two hours from me that would be a... close proximity to what I have desired for years) and... I also prayed something in addition to/on top of that like, "If I am not meant to go to those places, if it is not in Your will... please tell me what you want or what I should pray for instead so it'll be the right thing, especially since you know best."

Nothing.

Silence every time.

Soooo.... how come God won't tell me what else I should pursue? How come He won't tell me what I should pray for instead, especially if I am pursuing things otherwise for unhealthy reasons?

Is it because I'm being stubborn and still refusing to give up on the first thing? Does God want me to just... try and pursue other things, and maybe discover something for myself? Or am I just not going about anything in the right way somehow?

I dunno. Maybe part of the problem with my praying method is.... maybe I am being a bit like a person who is trying to skip ahead to the end of the DVD without seeing how the rest of it goes first... or maybe I'm bit a bit like a gamer who uses a cheat code to skip over a tricky or boring part to get to what I actually want to get at.

Anyway.... please let me know if you guys have any thoughts, theories, or insights... or go ahead and quote some scripture at me if you think it'll help. ^^;

 

[Hungry]

Will the truth be hard to hear if it’s what you don’t want to hear? I have answers. Knowledge is power but knowledge isn’t always pleasant. However, at least if you’re ready it will be a foundation to build on. Are you ready?

 

[Lenoralana]

Will the truth be hard to hear if it’s what you don’t want to hear? I have answers. Knowledge is power but knowledge isn’t always pleasant. However, at least if you’re ready it will be a foundation to build on. Are you ready?

I'll be honest here and say that, just a few weeks ago, the ONLY thing I wanted to hear was anything that might lead to me getting to Norway (or any other place i've been starry-eyed about...) and anything that would lead to telling me that my fantasy narrative would become reality. Soooo a few weeks ago... I doubt I would've been overly open or receptive to much.

Buuuuut.... I might be now.

Go ahead and say and I promise I'll do my best to read it and take it into the deepest consideration at least. ^^;

 

[Hungry]

I'll be honest here and say that, just a few weeks ago, the ONLY thing I wanted to hear was anything that might lead to me getting to Norway (or any other place i've been starry-eyed about...) and anything that would lead to telling me that my fantasy narrative would become reality. Soooo a few weeks ago... I doubt I would've been overly open or receptive to much.

Buuuuut.... I might be now.

Go ahead and say and I promise I'll do my best to read it and take it into the deepest consideration at least. ^^;

Christianity isn’t about gaining God’s favour. Throughout scripture it explains it fully. We are “grafted” into Christ. We are no longer individuals. The Church is One. The Spirit unites us like the neurological system of an organism. We are saved because we are connected to Christ. When He reigns we reign with Him, sharing His inheritance. To be spiritually reborn is for our spirit to connect...kind of like Wi-Fi on a big network...that reprograms us. Even most Christians don’t like to hear what I’m saying. They think God speaks through the Bible. The Bible is written by people who were connected and understand. The Bible is a map, it’s not the treasure. Reading the Bible doesn’t make you saved. It is an awakening that happens when you seek God in your core. I’ve been religious. I even thought I had relationship. There is no greater feeling and seeing how counterfeit what you thought Christianity was than after you have truly been spiritually reborn. Here’s the thing; if He wants something specific from you He will ask. Until then you just keep being a blessing. Help people when they need help. He doesn’t micromanage everything. We are His hands and feet and are conduits of His love and power. What’s in Norway? I’m curious about your age. Regardless, our worldly desires anchor us to the world. It is biologically normal for you to desire a husband and children. It is a desire that enslaves you. Once you marry and have children you are committed to their needs. Be careful not to be enticed by a man who will drag you down. Life in general is a series of trials we endure that refine us, and strengthen us. What work do you enjoy?

 

[Lenoralana]

The only thing I'll say for the moment is... what you said almost makes me wonder why Satan has done such a good job in shattering/damaging the morals and way of life in society, ever since a lot of people began to adopt and preach the message of "Be individual, live for yourself."

It segments everyone further.... and convinces them to live wholeheartedly for themselves and their own egos, when sometimes they don't even know what they're doing or what they want.

 

[Hungry]

The only thing I'll say for the moment is... what you said almost makes me wonder why Satan has done such a good job in shattering/damaging the morals and way of life in society, ever since a lot of people began to adopt and preach the message of "Be individual, live for yourself."

It segments everyone further.... and convinces them to live wholeheartedly for themselves and their own egos, when sometimes they don't even know what they're doing or what they want.

Very perceptive. It’s a movement that feeds the flesh. The satanic motto is, do what thou will. What is your opinion on the Eden story....how it all began?

 

[Lenoralana]

Very perceptive. It’s a movement that feeds the flesh. The satanic motto is, do what thou will. What is your opinion on the Eden story....how it all began?

It's funny you should mention that, cuz I remember a Christian family member once telling me when I was younger that when God eventually makes a new Earth, there might be some areas where Eve would probably not DARE show her face to anyone, or it might be better for her to make herself scarce, because there'd be plenty of people who would want to whack her a good one for "causing all the problems we currently have in our world".

....Without taking any consideration into the fact that it wasn't just her, it was also Adam. (But men are sometimes--not always, but sometimes--good at sticking up for "the man" and blaming everything on the ladies....)

Plus... the person I am referencing also did PLENTY of things that he ended up having to face the consequences for later, especially since he wouldn't address a lot of issues and he let a lot of things pile up... and I'd say God did a far better job making him see the error of his ways than I ever could.

Either way.... when it comes to anyone who has the attitude "I'd love to kick Eve where it hurts for what she did" (or even Adam for that matter, or both of them as a whole...) wellll.... they're probably a bit self-righteous. Let's just say there were some really, really crappy things I did where... I wouldn't want to show my face again in some specific social circles. And I'm not even the one who ate a piece of fruit and condemned the world.

Anyway... the only thing I regret is that the Bible doesn't give more description and details as to what Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden before they ate the forbidden fruit. What was paradise really like? What did they do during their daily routines? Did they run and play and sing and frolick like woodland elves? Did they behave with more dignity and reservation? When God came to visit the garden (it sounds like it was a regular occurrence), did they sit down for some paradise-garden equivalent of afternoon tea or did they do other things?

Just some thoughts.

 

[Hungry]

It's funny you should mention that, cuz I remember a Christian family member once telling me when I was younger that when God eventually makes a new Earth, there might be some areas where Eve would probably not DARE show her face to anyone, or it might be better for her to make herself scarce, because there'd be plenty of people who would want to whack her a good one for "causing all the problems we currently have in our world".

....Without taking any consideration into the fact that it wasn't just her, it was also Adam. (But men are sometimes--not always, but sometimes--good at sticking up for "the man" and blaming everything on the ladies....)

Plus... the person I am referencing also did PLENTY of things that he ended up having to face the consequences for later, especially since he wouldn't address a lot of issues and he let a lot of things pile up... and I'd say God did a far better job making him see the error of his ways than I ever could.

Either way.... when it comes to anyone who has the attitude "I'd love to kick Eve where it hurts for what she did" (or even Adam for that matter, or both of them as a whole...) wellll.... they're probably a bit self-righteous. Let's just say there were some really, really crappy things I did where... I wouldn't want to show my face again in some specific social circles. And I'm not even the one who ate a piece of fruit and condemned the world.

Anyway... the only thing I regret is that the Bible doesn't give more description and details as to what Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden before they ate the forbidden fruit. What was paradise really like? What did they do during their daily routines? Did they run and play and sing and frolick like woodland elves? Did they behave with more dignity and reservation? When God came to visit the garden (it sounds like it was a regular occurrence), did they sit down for some paradise-garden equivalent of afternoon tea or did they do other things?

Just some thoughts.

So you take a literal approach? God explained it to me differently. I will say most people are satisfied with a limited understanding of scripture. Are you most people?

 

[Lanolin]

youll get to Norway one day but it might not be RIGHT now.
Look God is busy answering all the prayers of billions of people and you wanna be first in the queue right.

So be patient. I dont know whats in Norway you are so desperate to see but if God didnt say NO then its obviously something you meant to wait for, so you can quit nagging Him about it.

we (us believers) can pray that a passage to Norway happens to you (and anyone else that is yearning in their soul to go)
though I still have no idea why you want to go. But I WILL PRAY ANYWAY.

 

[Lanolin]

Ok I prayed and was given Proverbs 23

If theres someone in Norway that you have to see, it seems to me God is warning you if you do go dont be deceived by all the luxuries you might be offered.

 

[Lenoralana]

Ok I prayed and was given Proverbs 23

If theres someone in Norway that you have to see, it seems to me God is warning you if you do go dont be deceived by all the luxuries you might be offered.

Thank you... that has actually given me something to think about... and pray about, maybe more than you know.

Honestly... I'm still not against telling you... can you try sending me a PM? Other people have been able to send me PMs, so maybe if you want to try starting a private convo with me... I might be able to tell you the deeper reasons why I'm so obsessed with Norway in private.

 

[Lenoralana]

You know guys... after having a lot of discussions on this forum, and just some stuff going on in my life/routine over the last few months (particularly the last week or so) well... I feel like it's all lead to an epiphany of sorts. (Sometimes... I can think with a clearer head with I have a chance to talk out/get out a lot of mental clutter, too... and/or maybe that is just when God can get through to me a little more, too.)

I have also been trying to ask myself more just WHAT it is I want... what I think I want at least... and why I want it so bad. And why it feels like things are so different these days that it's been unbearable for me at times. I think... at least some of the answer came to me today.

So, picture this for a moment. I pretty much grew up in a rural area, fairly isolated, heavily sheltered... but I always had one thing. A very predictable and fairly strict routine for the most part. Part of that was because my parents liked to run things in an almost military-style household (not quite THAT extreme, but maybe you get the idea kinda) and this was further enforced by a mentally handicapped sibling who would go completely ballistic sometimes (mostly when we were young) if we said something was gonna be done at 9:00 and it was done at 8:50 or 9:05 instead.

Perhaps a bit too much isolation and staying in control of their/our routine had the drawback of making us feel like we were the masters of the world... or at least our own little reality. Thus, when I turned 18... major shock, especially when you were never really part of the outside world or in any kind of system. Like... God's not gonna magically have you flow into an epic career and earn a million dollars? God's not gonna present you with an awesome husband? Huh??????

Thus lead to my entire twenties pretty much being spent with online buddies and RP partners... but I also had to stop and realize something here. Even though I once spent a fair bit of time online... I still didn't spend ALL of my time online, even during that era. (When I was a kid/teenager... my times online were actually relatively rare and my dad used it the most.) During my twenties, I was still on it a fair bit like I said... but it was still SOMEWHAT spread out, because the internet was more of a shared thing that we had to take turns with. And back then... I still had stuff I did off the internet, such as playing games, watching videos, reading, writing, crafting, etc. Plus.... since those were the days when Dad didn't have a job, (and him being the household's only driver...) well, he would sometimes just take me places, even if it was just on a grocery errand. Plus I did have a job for three years, so that took me away from things semi-regularly too.

Fast forward through the era in 2013-2014 with job loss, several hectic moves, a few months of homelessness... arrival in a whole new state, and then, when everything finally began to settle down....

When we could afford our own apartment again, it was nice to live on our again. No, not just nice, it was BEAUTIFUL. And eventually, after our finances stabilized further, we got internet at home again.

And this was the first time ever that I actually had access to the internet whenever I wanted because we could all just access it on our own devices this time around, now that we had our own devices. In my mind, since my parents were gonna be the ones going to work, it was gonna be GLORIOUS. I'd get to stay around the house with my brother, my parents wouldn't be home as much, and I could go online and be with my RP and chat buddies again just like I had years ago in the past... and this time, there would be no interruptions. It was gonna be GLORIOUS! Just one big, unending RP party or whatever with little or no interruption... right?

Right?

Wrong.

For one thing, becoming a housedaughter meant maintaining a certain level of responsibility, including tending to the needs of my brother, doing any cleaning that needed to be done, and especially taking over most of the cooking... among other household responsibilities, because it's only fair if your aging parents are out working their butts off while you get to stay in their house, even if you are providing a service of a sort too.

Well... what I also didn't anticipate in spending a lot of time around the house with the parents away a lot... and having constant access to the internet... was that it wasn't gonna be all fun and games. All/most of my internet buddies had lives of their own by this point, and... I also didn't realize back then that my emotional neediness/dependency was only going to increase.

Perhaps I did develop an unhealthy internet addiction, moreso than I ever did in the past, I dunno. I started doing only the bare minimum of what I needed to do around the house, and... I got more depressed, especially as some friends became scarce and others put limits on how much I could talk to them because I was getting to be a bit much.

Now... this is where the whole Norway thing comes in. This guy grew up in a country where he was fairly isolated, he had some problems in school that were slightly relateable to my problems (Even if he went to public school, I was homeschooled) and well... he grew up pretty much alone. We thought we understood each other I guess. Plus... I began to crave for some chance to see his country, because it sounded so similar to where I grew up, even if it was just a rural area in the northeast. I craved strongly for what felt... familiar, I guess. If I couldn't go back to my childhood home, maybe I could instead go to this far and distant land, maybe?

Plus... I guess I latched onto him in particular because, during a time when I had the internet all the time and everybody else had gotten jobs and become busier and more distant... he was basically the last holdout from one of my original internet social circles. When everyone else had moved on to college, jobs, and/or other things... he was the only one left who was still hanging out around the house and still somewhat similar to what I used to have years beforehand, someone able to just bum around on the comp with me.

I got attached. He was the last holdout, so why not? So I sorta felt at the time anyway. Plus... I REALLY became infatuated when he bought me a few games on Steam he thought I'd enjoy, and then we had one weekend together in May 2015 where we voice-chatted for the first time on Skype and played one of those games together. He became more real to me when I heard his voice for the first time... he was so nice, he taught me how to play the game, and I found his accent kinda... exotic.

From that moment on... I just felt like I absolutely had to visit his country for myself and see him face-to-face. My desires were actually akin to a schoolgirl wanting to play house with her favorite crush, I suppose. Honestly... I'm not really interested in anything physical. I don't care if I don't even get to shake hands with the guy. Somehow I have just felt all this time like... I want to go to his country, a place that seems so much like where I grew up... and I just want to see his face, just once, and maybe be in his aura for a little while. After that... maybe I could just live in a cabin someplace, or just return to the US completely satisfied.

I'm not sure if this makes any kind of sense. It... probably seems pretty insane, which is also why I have hesitated to talk about it too much. But... I hope this offers some explanation to anyone who has been curious. Maybe... it might offer a bit better clarity what to help me pray for, I dunno. ^^;

Anyway... I did burn bridges with him pretty badly in the end, because I got pretty neurotically obsessed with the entire dream, and I threw an absolute fit over it when he finally announced (during the same year Trump got elected) that he'd gotten a job... I think part of it was just a genuine anxiety-induced meltdown, but... it was also a huge slap in the face that my fantasy would probably never become reality. Because... he was moving on with life, and he would be living on his own as he'd always dreamed while I was still with my family... even if I do feel that this is where God wants me for now and I am invaluable here. It was just.... Goodbye Dream (Which I had somehow gotten attached to.. even if it wasn't really based in reality) that this guy and I would simultaneously move out of our parents' homes oneday and move in together... even if it was just for a little while or something.

Even so... maybe it is because I spent several years obsessed over the fantasy with nothing better to fill the void it would leave with, maybe it is because he still truly fascinates me in some way... maybe part of me is still convinced that going to Norway would be like "going home" somehow. But... I'm still having a somewhat tough time giving it up.

I guess I also wanted in vain to believe that it might be God's will for me to have at least something to do with Norway oneday, because why ELSE would I discover there is a town about two hours from me that just happens to be inhabited by those of Norwegian descent, which I didn't find out about until after I moved to my current state and became more enamored with him? I desperately wanted to believe that it could be a... sign or something. (Though... so far, every attempt to maybe try and visit that area has failed for one reason or another.... even if part of me would like to go there for a visit oneday. Maybe.)

Sooooo.... there you go I guess.