When Has God Gathered After He Scattered Without Any Repentance?

[posthuman]

What's two guys from Emmaus have to do with an entire nation that was screaming "crucify Him" a few hours before? I asked you for just one verse where God gathered them after scattering them without them first having repented? Are you aware that in just a few years, the entire nation would be permanently scattered and lost in the murky waters of the global gene pool? You're really grasping at straws. ​

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Again, at the time of Jesus, Israel was already in the land but would soon have the hammer drop on them because of rejecting Jesus. More square pegs in round holes, friend ​

the Lord came to His chosen ones, opened their hearts, taught them and gathered them together even while they were in unbelief, and proved Himself to them, that they might believe.

 

[Journeyman]

There are many aspects to abrahams covenant. One part is the land.

And I just showed you that Abraham understood "the land promise" as the new Jerusalem,

But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city. Heb.11:16

For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. Heb.13:14

Rom 9 has nothing to do with the land. Given ONLY to Abraham Isaac and Jacob

It certainly does, or Paul wouldn't have mentioned it.

Maybe with your biases. But yu have not studied it.

The covenant between Christ and Abraham isn't my bias.

Seeds. Is all the nations of the world

No it isn't, because the contrast is between the covenant God made with Abraham in Christ vs. the law through Moses,

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, Gal.3:17

The SEED was promised land.

Paul is right, YOU are wrong, Because paul understood the two aspects. You do not.

And to thy seed, which is Christ. Gal.3:16

THE SEED IS CHRIST. WAKE UP.

I said ALL believers were promised eternal life. You just lied about what I said. You just destroyed your argument. By proving you did not understand what I said.

This still has nothing to do with the land promise

You are off context and prove you do not understand. Please stick to the argument

The argument is being one in Christ vs not being one in Christ,

There is neither Jewnor Greek...for ye who are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal.3:28

Here's your problem,

they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Rom.10:2

 

[Phoneman-777]

no, you asked Evmur for chapter-and-verse of God saving Israel from her enemies while they were unrepentant.

Josiah was prophesied by name to appear and become king in 1 Kings 13. you need to understand what 1 Kings 13 is about, how it is a picture of Christ/antichrist and salvation.
and i gave you 2 Kings 22:1, which is that Josiah became king over an idolatrous people.
and 2 Kings 22:20 is that the judgement He had prepared for Judah would not come while Josiah was king. they were saved from their enemies while this king was with them.
you need to understand how Josiah is a picture of Christ.


'the entire chapter' is not about the destruction He will chastise them with. verses 16 & 17 are. 2 out of 20 verses do not comprise the entire chapter, even if they are the only 2 you read.
you need to understand a lot more Bible than those 2 verses to see the significance of Josiah, who btw was repentant, himself, as no other king has ever been. you need to understand Genesis 18, too. how many Messianic Jews are there in Israel? 30,000? is that more than ten?

You need to understand the OP is about God's condition for restoration to a nation oppressed and scattered for disobedience which is that they first must repent before He will gather them and heal their land...was the nation under severe oppression from their enemies or scattered to the four winds under Josiah? So, what's that got to do with 2 Chronicles 7:14? NOTHING.

To the contrary, the coming severity of oppression and scattering was only delayed until after Josiah's reign.

 

[Phoneman-777]

the Lord came to His chosen ones, opened their hearts, taught them and gathered them together even while they were in unbelief, and proved Himself to them, that they might believe.

Were they carrying hammers stained with Jesus' blood from Calvary? Besides, that's got nothing to do with 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV anyway - the only cries heard going up to the heavens at that time from the Jewish nation were certainly not for God's mercy, but "crucify Him" and His followers.

The fact is, you can't point to any time in Biblical history where the "people", NOT INDIVIDUALS, but "the nation" were gathered back and restored without them having first "humbled" themselves before God in repentance.

"Israel" today still refers to Jesus as the Great Imposter, so how the flip could God have had anything to do with 1948 without violating His own imposed condition upon them?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And I just showed you that Abraham understood "the land promise" as the new Jerusalem,

But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city. Heb.11:16

For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. Heb.13:14

No. You showed what Abraham considered of most value. Not what God gave him and his family.

Gen 15:
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Gen 17:
8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in[f] which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Sorry man. But this is NOT new jerusalem.

Once again. You have to put things in Context.

It certainly does, or Paul wouldn't have mentioned it.

It certainly Does not. It is Paul answering the argument did God make a mistake choosing Israel. It has nothing to do with Land. Otherwise he contradicts himself in Chapter 11. And we might as well through romans out of the bible

The covenant between Christ and Abraham isn't my bias.

No, Its how you interpret the covenant.



[quote}No it isn't, because the contrast is between the covenant God made with Abraham in Christ vs. the law through Moses,[/quote]
The law of moses was given to one of His children.

The covenant, about blessing is given to all his seed. and all the world.

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, Gal.3:17

What does this have to do with the abrahamic covenant. ? Get off the law. that is not what we are discussing

And to thy seed, which is Christ. Gal.3:16

THE SEED IS CHRIST. WAKE UP.

Christ was not promised the land of canaan. The land was promised to him, Isaac and Jacob .

YOU WAKE UP!

The argument is being one in Christ vs not being one in Christ,

There is neither Jewnor Greek...for ye who are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal.3:28

Here's your problem,

they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Rom.10:2

That is not my argument at all.

My argument is about the land given to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as an eternal possession.

Your trying to replace that covenant with the church. YOUR WRONG.

 

[Evmur]

WOW! Chapter and verse?

In fact God brought the Jews home from Babylon without a general repentance among the people. In Ezra and Nehemiah you will see that repentance came after they had returned.

Here is an important point to remember God brought them home from Babylon because the 70 years were up. The times and seasons for God's dealings with the Jews are in the Father's hands always.

The disciples pointedly asked the Lord this question "will you at this time restore the kingdom" and were told this was not their immediate business ... He pointedly did not say that the kingdom was not to be restored.

God has a timetable for Israel.

 

[posthuman]

You need to understand the OP is about God's condition for restoration to a nation oppressed and scattered for disobedience

Cool.

You need to understand that I am not interested in your OP and your carefully crafted narrow terms of 'acceptable replies'

I am interested in speaking to the heart of your arguments, not the glossy mask it wears.

 

[Evmur]

God saved them from physical extinction, but today they need to be re-grafted because of their unbelief. They must repent for this to happen. Only through the Blood of Jesus. This applies to all.

Nobody denies but the fact we are arguing is will it happen? why are they being gathered?

They are being gathered because God has always dealt with the Jews as a nation, they fell us a nation and they fell BY THE WILL OF GOD, for He sent a blindness upon them, I fear He sent a blindness upon Phoneman, when people exalt themselves against the Jews let them consider carefully that what they did in giving Christ up to be crucified by the Gentiles they did according to God's predeterminate plan.

WE would not be saved today but for the Jews transgression .... I would like to holler that from the rooftops, I would like everybody in all nations to hear and understand. Our salvation is of the Jews.

When He comes to collect the church "they will look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for a firstborn son" and God will pour upon the Jews a spirit of contrition and compassion and all Israel will gather to pray [you will read it in Zech. 14.] and they will separate, the men from the women. and the men will pray and the women will pray.

This is why Paul says in Romans 11. if their failure has meant their rejection what will their inclusion mean but life from the dead.

There will be no resurrection for the church without the Jews are first converted.

 

[Evmur]

Anti- Zionism is just Anti- Semitism wrapped in a shiny new paper. They think no one notices. It's evil and from the pit of hell. God chose the land, He chose the people. The church does not replace the Jews. They want all the curses for the Jew and all the blessing for themselves. They ignore every promise made by God and say He won't keep them to the Jews. How could you trust a god that would lie to his own people? God will keep His promises, His callings, which are irrevocable, and Anti- Semites will soon find they were on the wrong side of history.

They will be in trouble

Now there's a word ... trouble ... Jacob's trouble from whence we get the word tribulation, the time of tribulation such as never ha been since the world began the great tribulation.

Jacob's trouble is the great tribulation, people think it is the Jews who are in trouble but no, it is the tribulation coming upon the world, the nation BECAUSE of the Jews, because of the way the nations have treated the Jews.

Jeremiah says explicitly "the time of Jacob's trouble ... BUT [glorious but]

.... but he shall be SAVED out of it"

It is shown in Zechariah 14 where God goes forth to fight on behalf of the Jews against the nations and it is shown in Daniel 12 speaking explicitly about the great tribulation that Michael the mighty Cherub will stand up for Israel and they shall be delivered.

 

[Phoneman-777]

No. You showed what Abraham considered of most value. Not what God gave him and his family.

Gen 15:
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land,

Who, and ONLY who, does the Bible are Abraham's descendants? "IF ye be CHRIST'S, THEN are ye Abraham's seed..."

 

[Phoneman-777]

In fact God brought the Jews home from Babylon without a general repentance among the people. In Ezra and Nehemiah you will see that repentance came after they had returned.

Alright, let's not be obtuse, please. Where can we read about Israel worshiping Baal or Molech or the priests with their backs to the Lord worshiping the Sun after they returned? Oh, we don't, right? As I said, the captivity permanently cured God's people of their idolatry, to the point that when they got back they started making up all kinds of unnecessary "anti-idolatry" laws which Jesus eventually came and abolished.

While the work of Ezra and Nehemiah did include cleaning up a few mistakes on the part of the people, it was primarily to encourage a discouraged people.

Here is an important point to remember God brought them home from Babylon because the 70 years were up. The times and seasons for God's dealings with the Jews are in the Father's hands always.

Yes, I wonder how God was able to predict He'd be able to gather a people cured of idolatry back to the land after 70 years of captivity?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Cool.

You need to understand that I am not interested in your OP and your carefully crafted narrow terms of 'acceptable replies'

I am interested in speaking to the heart of your arguments, not the glossy mask it wears.

No, the problem is that you've failed to show Biblically where God ever deviated from His 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV condition imposed upon the people, which calls into serious question 1948...but your stubborn refusal to concede this point compels you to narrow the scope of the debate so that individual experience may be that of the entire nation...

...like the totally laughable examples you gave of Josiah's ascension which immediately preceded judgment of Israel, and two men "repenting" on their way to Emmaus while the air still reverberated with shouts of "Crucify Him, Crucify Him!!! from the people and their leaders. You do realize at that time the only people besides the disciples who didn't want to crucify Him was Pilate?

 

[Evmur]

Alright, let's not be obtuse, please. Where can we read about Israel worshiping Baal or Molech or the priests with their backs to the Lord worshiping the Sun after they returned? Oh, we don't, right? As I said, the captivity permanently cured God's people of their idolatry, to the point that when they got back they started making up all kinds of unnecessary "anti-idolatry" laws which Jesus eventually came and abolished.

While the work of Ezra and Nehemiah did include cleaning up a few mistakes on the part of the people, it was primarily to encourage a discouraged people.
Yes, I wonder how God was able to predict He'd be able to gather a people cured of idolatry back to the land after 70 years of captivity?

do modern Jews worship Baal or Molech?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who, and ONLY who, does the Bible are Abraham's descendants? "IF ye be CHRIST'S, THEN are ye Abraham's seed..."

WHO, and ONLY who. was promised the land of canaan as an eternal gift?

Gen 15:
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Gen 17:
8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in[f] which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

 

[posthuman]

No, the problem is that you've failed to show Biblically where God ever deviated from His 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV condition imposed upon the people, which calls into serious question 1948..

There are two issues here, one is that you said don't even read any posts much longer than 50 words, so how would you know?
And the second is that I've told you more than once that I'm not even trying to answer your contrived antisemetic 'trap' - - so your criticism is wholly immaterial to my posts, and if you would take the time to read some of them you'd get that.


In brief, Israel is a nation therefore it is God's doing that they are, because we believe Daniel 2:21 is the word of God. Whether that upsets you or not really doesn't change the fact.

 

[posthuman]

It's been pretty interesting how Pelagianism soteriology affects how people view many other Biblical topics.

 

[Phoneman-777]

do modern Jews worship Baal or Molech?

Stil can't find that chapter and verse, can you? I'll help you out: It's not there. So, did God have anything to do with 1948? No, those people are descendants of the pagan Khazars, not Abraham. Paul tells us in Galatians 3:29 KJV who is.

 

[Evmur]

Stil can't find that chapter and verse, can you? I'll help you out: It's not there. So, did God have anything to do with 1948? No, those people are descendants of the pagan Khazars, not Abraham. Paul tells us in Galatians 3:29 KJV who is.

That is your brainwash ... there is a spirit behind it and he is not holy.

 

[Phoneman-777]

WHO, and ONLY who. was promised the land of canaan as an eternal gift?

Gen 15:
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Gen 17:
8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in[f] which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

"All the promises to the fathers are Yea and are Amen in Christ" and are for Spiritual Israel, the Christian church.

 

[Phoneman-777]

That is your brainwash ... there is a spirit behind it and he is not holy.

Then disprove it. Find that chapter and verse which sets a precedent for God returning to the land in 1948 "Israelites" who have never repented from what got them scattered to begin with.

Stop with the "group think" and start thinking for yourself, because the crowd has never been right. They drowned in Noah's day, crucified God's prophets in the days of ancient Israel, nailed Jesus to a Cross, persecuted the church during the Dark Ages, and in the last days will take the Mark of the Beast instead of the Seal of God, all the while thinking they were right about things.