Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, on an individual level: While a person may not be an arminian, some of his beliefs may be. Although that person might not even have read up on or know much or even anything about arminianism, some of his beliefs yet are identical to some arminian tenets. Just as there are people who hold to pre- or postmillenalism without really knowing anything about the terms. So then it's more to spot that particular belief than to put up a label.

Me personally. I just ignore trying to label someone or try to put them into a belief system. And just get to know what they believe, Who knows, they may be able to offer me something I did not know before.

 

[VCO]

Or calling Legalism and lack of faith in Christ biblical does not make it any more true

Once again my friend. When are you going to trust God?

You say you tust he will change you. Then your doctrine says we can overpower God and that although he promised to complete the work he started. We could prevent him from doing that

Since when are we more powerful than God?

You are right, he trusts in himself.

And IF the LORD CAN BRAKE that trust in his self centerness, he will cry for hours.

 

[VCO]

View attachment 226529

You Do Not Listen, do you ? ? ?


Yes, there are consequences:


1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (NIV)
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
15 If it is burned up {SALVATION is not a work, it is a FREE GIFT, from GOD.}, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are right, he trusts in himself.

And IF the LORD CAN BRAKE that trust in his self centerness, he will cry for hours.

yes he will like those before him were broken!

 

[OIC1965]

Your verse doesn’t say one can’t change his mind again - that is inference and there’s too much “doctrine” built upon such.

Jesus says the “love of many shall wax cold”, which is the “agape love of the saints” because sinners don’t partake of agape, right or wrong? Jesus warned these saints will not endure to the end and will not be saved because the iniquity they went back to practicing sniffed out their agape.

There’s no other way to interpret this passage of Jesus.

Those who God foreknew, He predestined, called, justified, and glorified. It is possible to have some type of “conversion”, ( I use the term loosely) but not be of God’s Elect. And it is even possible for an elect to have many conversions (again I am using the term loosely) before they are truly converted.

Because man cannot convert another, only God can truly convert a sinner.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You do KNOW, you joined a thread where 9 out of 10 regular Posters are OSAS.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Yes, but I won’t hold against you all 😛

 

[Phoneman-777]

That happens when they begin with the axiom "There is only ONE gospel" throughout.

Since they use Paul's gospel of grace as the foundation for that gospel, they have to begin with the belief in OSAS, which Paul preaches.

But because they hold to that axiom, they then try to make all other passages from the gospel of the kingdom, which was preached by Jesus and the 12 to Israel, including the famous James chapter 2, to all mean the same as what Paul is teaching.

Yes, Paul and James appear to contradict each other, but the truth is they were back to back fighting against the two great errors of Christianity, the two ditches which flank the sides of the Path of the Just: License (OSAS) and Legalism.

The spiritually mature will acknowledge the existence of both.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Blah, Blah, Blah nonsense is all you post. What you think, how you act is shown to the rest of us by "what you say." Satan doesn't "pass you by" Mr. as you speak falseness about those of us who actually find comfort and assurance of our salvation. As for leading a "sinless" life, your words towards the rest of us about your "sinless" life is nonsense.

The "conquer" is Jesus Christ who has "conquered" the world and who has made it possible for we sinful inhabitants of this diminished creation to be able to directly talk with Him, one day come before His presence and be held in His arms.

The most important part about God is His LOVE for His creation and how much He loves us all UNconditionally.

Unconditional love has nothing to do with Conditional salvation - on condition that we surrender our will to His will.

Imagine hiking up a mountain and discovering a homeless man living in a cave....THEN you discover he’s the son of aviation multi-billionaire George E. Batchelor (true story - check out “The Richest Caveman” on YouTube).

Just as we can’t simultaneously benefit from but also reject exceeding wealth, we can’t simultaneously benefit from but also reject surrender to God’s authority.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You have never had an extreme closeness to GOD in your life, have you ? ? ?

I will tell you a true story about a time I almost went against GOD"S WILL. BUT first, I need to give you some background on HOW HE MOTIVATED ME TO MOVE TO CALIFORNIA. I was working on the PM shift in the Post OFFICE in Nebraska, the state I was born and raised in. This was several years after I had willingly out of Agape LOVE for HIM, surrendered to HIM, after my Third Attempt At SUICIDE. I had a VERY CLOSE REALATIONSHIP with HIM, and would have an ongoing conversation with HIM, anytime I wanted, and HE would answer me with thoughts that Could ONLY COME FROM HIM.

One night in late 86, I was trying to witness to a co-worker, who made it plain that HE DID NOT WANT TO HEAR any more. All of a sudden, GOD gave me a THOUGHT "IT IS FINISHED, Now I want you to move WEST." And everytime I thought about it, HE PUT IT ON MY HEART TO MOVE WEST. I was born and raised in Nebraska, and wanted to stay right there. A few weeks later I got a big PROMOTION to my Dream Job on the DAY SHIFT. BUT I KNEW GOD WANTED ME TO MOVE WEST. I Knew I Would have to walk away from that Dream Job, and Tranfer to somewhere out west. To make this short, I have to skip by several minor miracles, on HOW HE GOT ME TO MOVE TO CALIFORNIA, the Last PLACE I WOULD EVER WANT TO BECOME A RESIDENT. Just so you know, when You transfer in the POST OFFICE, you go back to ZERO on the Seniority List, and I did it twice in California, just to get to the town where HE WANTED ME.

So this open conversation with GOD, was a Norm in my Spiritual Life. HE WAS GUIDING ME TO START A PRISON MININSTRY. But that is not what I WANT to talk to you about. My wife and I decided one summer that I would go get the Grandkids from Nebraska, and bring them out for a vacation in California. I left California, and made it as far as Elko, NEVADA before spending a Night at a motel. Then next morning I was on the ONRAMP to I-80, at 60 M.P.H., when I noticed a Hitch Hiker on the side of the Onramp. I moved to left of that Onramp to go by him, and when I got by him when the LORD YELLED: "PICK HIM UP!", in a deep audible Voice, and I KNEW WHO IT WAS.

That part of my TESTIMONY, I have told to VERY FEW Friends, mostly very close EVANGELICAL Friends. My MUSCLES REACTED INSTANTLY, jammed on the Brakes as hard as hard as I could, without out thinking a bit. I had all four TIres screaming to a stop, and was sitting there SHAKING, when the Hitch Hiker came running up to the car, opened my passenger car door, and asked, "ARE YOU GIVING ME A RIDE?"

I said to the hitch hiker, "YES, YOU GET INTO THE CAR, because the LORD JUST TOLD ME TO GIVE YOU A RIDE." YES, the LORD intended me to Witness to him, no and's, if's, or maybe's.

Like I said, I left out all kinds of minor miracles, that HE had to do for me to get us to California, to start a Prison Ministry, I mean too many to count, but I knew it was because I TOTALLY TRUSTED HIM FOR LITERALLY EVERYTHING, from the moment I Surrendered to HIM the Night I made my third attempt at Suicide, the 29th of Dec. 1977.

Wonderful testimony. As for me, I never felt closer to God than when in 2006 I was fired from my $10,000/month job for refusing to break God’s Ten Commandments and He faithfully took care of me and my family those two years before I got my job back with full paid lost compensation including interest, a promotion, a raise, and a new work schedule which to this day allows me to obey His commandments according to His Word and not man’s tradition. Does the Bible mention how good it feels when we stand victorious over temptation and sin by the overcoming power of Jesus? Sure ... but somehow, things got twisted and people started teaching we’re “more than conquerors” at the same time we’re giving up and giving in to firstly desires. It cannot be.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Or calling Legalism and lack of faith in Christ biblical does not make it any more true

Once again my friend. When are you going to trust God?

For what? Salvation?
Power to overcome temptation?
His Spirit so I can be more like Jesus?

Already do. But OSAS concerns itself with only the first point, because Jesus said “I have kept My Father’s commandments...” and is our Divine Example for living a victorious life.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Your right, Blessed are the poor in spirit (in the greek literally bankrupt) for thiers is the kingdom of God

Both licentiousness and legalism are steeped in pride Niether have become poor in spirit. They have yet to humble themselves. And where they claim OSAS or NOSAS, Both are headed in the wrong direction. Because neither has become the tax collector

Since you fall under the legalistic crowd And bash the licentious crowd and try to put EVERYONE who believed God wen he said he has perfected FOREVER those who are being sanctified. And he who began a good work will complete it as licentious people. You not only lack humility in the gospel. But discernment of true children of God



Yep Satan did. And he preaches legalism and you fell for it hook line and sinker.

Uh...I preach surrender which at the core demands humility, while you make OSAS excuses for iniquitous failures which result from a prideful rejection of God’s terms of surrender...as if we can step up to the bargaining table with anything to offer but a lost soul.

OSAS is a Satanic doctrine that apparently causes most of its adherents to call good evil and evil good.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For what? Salvation?
Power to overcome temptation?
His Spirit so I can be more like Jesus?

Already do. But OSAS concerns itself with only the first point, because Jesus said “I have kept My Father’s commandments...” and is our Divine Example for living a victorious life.

For doing what he promised

and making you into a new man

hence all three

from my viewpoint you do not trust him in any f those cases

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Uh...I preach surrender which at the core demands humility, while you make OSAS excuses for iniquitous failures which result from a prideful rejection of God’s terms of surrender...as if we can step up to the bargaining table with anything to offer but a lost soul.

OSAS is a Satanic doctrine that apparently causes most of its adherents to call good evil and evil good.

Um nope

you preach failure and reject the power of God to change his children into righteous people

 

[gb9]

For what? Salvation?
Power to overcome temptation?
His Spirit so I can be more like Jesus?

Already do. But OSAS concerns itself with only the first point, because Jesus said “I have kept My Father’s commandments...” and is our Divine Example for living a victorious life.

so, if failing to keep the Commands will disqualify one from salvation, then how many times can one break them until salvation is lost.

keep in mind, God is just and fair.
so, for that to be the case, then there has to be a line that must be crossed, a exact #, or if not, that would mean God is random and arbitrary , and He is nither.

 

[VCO]

Uh...I preach surrender which at the core demands humility, while you make OSAS excuses for iniquitous failures which result from a prideful rejection of God’s terms of surrender...as if we can step up to the bargaining table with anything to offer but a lost soul.

OSAS is a Satanic doctrine that apparently causes most of its adherents to call good evil and evil good.

DO REMEMBER YOU SAID THAT WHEN YOU FINALLY FIND OUT OSAS IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.


Romans 5:10 (HCSB)
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

Romans 9:16 (HCSB) 16 So then it does not depend on human will or effort but on God who shows mercy.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 3:28 (GWT)
28 We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

 

[CherieR]

Uh...I preach surrender which at the core demands humility, while you make OSAS excuses for iniquitous failures which result from a prideful rejection of God’s terms of surrender...as if we can step up to the bargaining table with anything to offer but a lost soul.

OSAS is a Satanic doctrine that apparently causes most of its adherents to call good evil and evil good.

There is nothing Satanic about OSAS. It is simply the belief of eternal security of which the Bible supports in many verses.

 

[Guojing]

Yes, Paul and James appear to contradict each other, but the truth is they were back to back fighting against the two great errors of Christianity, the two ditches which flank the sides of the Path of the Just: License (OSAS) and Legalism.

The spiritually mature will acknowledge the existence of both.

Just let Paul and James say what they mean and mean what they say, but to different group of believers.

 

[star]

Unconditional love has nothing to do with Conditional salvation - on condition that we surrender our will to His will.

Imagine hiking up a mountain and discovering a homeless man living in a cave....THEN you discover he’s the son of aviation multi-billionaire George E. Batchelor (true story - check out “The Richest Caveman” on YouTube).

Just as we can’t simultaneously benefit from but also reject exceeding wealth, we can’t simultaneously benefit from but also reject surrender to God’s authority.

Salvation has nothing to do with "conditional" as it is a free gift we are offered and blessed with and as undeserving as we all are, it's a gift given from the God of Love. You are so mixed up in my personal opinion about the whole salvation, Christ like living, etc.

 

[star]

Uh...I preach surrender which at the core demands humility, while you make OSAS excuses for iniquitous failures which result from a prideful rejection of God’s terms of surrender...as if we can step up to the bargaining table with anything to offer but a lost soul.

OSAS is a Satanic doctrine that apparently causes most of its adherents to call good evil and evil good.

The only Satanic doctrine being floated in this thread is the doctrine of "works" including following Mose's laws, living a sinless life, calling God's Work unsustainable, depending on one's self to keep, hold onto salvation. Calling those of us who actually believe God's Holy Spirit who resides in us and who SEALED us on the day of our salvation "satanic" is a pitiful action from someone claiming to be a brother in Christ

 

[bellemira]

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Any good deeds I do flow out of my salvation.

Ephesisians 2: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


Any good deeds I do are as a result of my salvation and in no way can they earn me salvation. Anything I do is out of loving gratitude to God.

A thought just occurred; if good deeds do not flow out of our salvation, are we truly saved?