Red flags

[Live4Him]

I disagree the "He" in Daniel 9:27 is the anti-christ.
The anti-christ is not mentioned in Daniel 9.
To properly use the pronoun "he" it must refer to someone previously identified.

This "he" was not only "previously identified", but later identified as well.

Daniel chapter 9

[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In context, the "he" refers to "the prince that shall come", and he is the one who "for the overspreading of abominations shall make it desolate".

Furthermore, as I previously documented:

Daniel chapter 11

[31] And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

If you take the time to read that verse in its actual context, then, once again, you will see that the one who takes away the daily sacrifice and places the abomination that makes desolate is the antichrist.

Daniel chapter 12

[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Same exact scenario.

The antichrist takes away the daily sacrifice and sets up the abomination that makes desolate.

 

[Live4Him]

You say that in Matthew 24:15 holy place refers to a new Jewish temple.
If the Jews build a building, call it a temple, and begin to practice what they call worship that continues to reject Jesus as the Messiah, would that really be a Holy Place?

The temple itself will be a holy place.

This does not mean that what transpires within it during this specific period of time will truly be holy in God's sight.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Red flags usually mean danger.

Often when speaking to others about Bible truths, they say things that set off a red flag warning in my mind.
Same is true when I read what some post on this forum.
This is most often true when people speak about about end time events.

Some things that set off a red flag are-----
"God revealed it to me."
"God told me."
"God showed me in a dream."
"God gave me the gift of discernment."
"I have spent 40 years studying."
And one of my favorites---
"This verse is a spiritual alluding to."

1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace"

But I see people who make the claims I mentioned above who can never agree on when or what will happen in the future.
Someone must be wrong, and most likely ALL are wrong.

When people make these claims, I tend to ignore all they say.

yes it seems as if there is a ton of confusion and each insists they have it correct . Something is way off and it makes it hard to find what the Bible tells us to look for in church

 

[DWR]

I my opinion, The Scripture is clear. The anti-christ will stand in the Holy Place. But God does not live in a building nor does He recognize a place as Holy because man believes it to be so.
I believe Holy Place refers to God's rightful place as above all, the only one to be worshiped.
The anti-christ will place himself in that place demanding to be worshiped.
Mark 13:14 states "standing where he ought not".

 

[DWR]

The temple itself will be a holy place.

This does not mean that what transpires within it during this specific period of time will truly be holy in God's sight.

What makes it Holy?

 

[DWR]

This "he" was not only "previously identified", but later identified as well.

Daniel chapter 9

[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In context, the "he" refers to "the prince that shall come", and he is the one who "for the overspreading of abominations shall make it desolate".

Furthermore, as I previously documented:

Daniel chapter 11

[31] And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

If you take the time to read that verse in its actual context, then, once again, you will see that the one who takes away the daily sacrifice and places the abomination that makes desolate is the antichrist.

Daniel chapter 12

[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Same exact scenario.

The antichrist takes away the daily sacrifice and sets up the abomination that makes desolate.[/QUO

Verse 26 does not refer to the anti-christ but to the roman emperor and his army that would come and destroy Jerusalem, the nation of Israel, and drive the Jews out of the Promised Land because of their rejection and crucifixion of the Messiah.
The anti-christ is not mentioned until chapters 11 and 12.

Thanks for the very Christian like discussion we have had, but I have fire wood to cut.
Be back later.

 

[Live4Him]

Verse 26 does not refer to the anti-christ but to the roman emperor and his army that would come and destroy Jerusalem, the nation of Israel, and drive the Jews out of the Promised Land because of their rejection and crucifixion of the Messiah.

In part, yes.

However, if we properly understand who the antichrist is by closely examining all of the descriptors that we're given of him in scripture, then we recognize that he is directly related to Rome himself or to "the people of the prince that shall come" (Dan. 9:26).

The anti-christ is not mentioned until chapters 11 and 12.

I'm sorry, but this statement simply isn't true. For example, the antichrist is repeatedly mentioned in Daniel chapter 7.

Furthermore, when he is mentioned in chapters 11 and 12, then he's mentioned in direct correlation to Daniel 9:27. Again, he is the one who takes away the daily sacrifice and sets up the abomination that makes desolate.

Thanks for the very Christian like discussion we have had, but I have fire wood to cut.
Be back later.

You're welcome.

There's no reason (other than pride) why two Christians shouldn't be able to engage in civil discussion on any topic.

 

[Live4Him]

What makes it Holy?

In order to best answer your question, I need to remind you of something that I stated earlier.

I said:

Based upon my own observations (not just here, but in general), the main reason why so many people don't understand end-time events is because they don't understand early-time events...if I can say it that way.

For example, when it comes to understanding the book of Revelation, that is not the place to begin one's study of end-time events. Much of what is stated in the book of Revelation is stated much earlier in different books of the Old Testament, and if one doesn't have a working knowledge of the same, then the book of Revelation simply cannot properly be understood.

I once heard someone say (and I fully agree with them) that trying to understand the New Testament without first having a working knowledge of the Old Testament is like trying to put a roof on a house without first building the house to support it.

Let me give you an example of what I mean, beginning with the very first verse of the New Testament:

"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matt. 1:1)

If one doesn't understand the Old Testament prophecies which have gone forth concerning Jesus Christ as either "the son of David" or "the son" or "seed of Abraham", then they're greatly disadvantaged right from the start.

Jesus Christ is the prophesied "son of David", and in many places in the Old Testament it was foretold that he will sit upon the throne of his father David at his second coming from within a temple in Jerusalem from which he shall reign over this earth or govern the nations.

Please recall what the angel Gabriel said to Mary in relation to the same:

Luke chapter 1

[26] And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
[27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
[29] And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
[33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
[34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

When Christ returns, he shall "sit upon the throne of his glory" (Matt. 25:31), and this throne will be inside of a temple in Jerusalem.

In answer to your question, ^^^THIS^^^ is what makes the temple holy.

Furthermore, ^^^THIS^^^ is precisely why the antichrist will so greatly covet this seat prior to Christ's return so that he might gain the worship which is truly due to Christ alone.

Anyhow, the reinstituting of temple sacrifices will most certainly be an affront to God in that it is a blatant denial of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Of course, the abomination that makes desolate will likewise be ABOMINABLE in God's sight, but the temple itself is still holy.

 

[oyster67]

“Well, the original manuscripts say...”

"Well, oysters are just IGNORANT IDIOTS!!! ".

Actually, we all are without the aid of the Holy Spirit(Who happens to be an expert in the original languages and manuscripts.)

 

[Live4Him]

I my opinion, The Scripture is clear. The anti-christ will stand in the Holy Place. But God does not live in a building nor does He recognize a place as Holy because man believes it to be so.
I believe Holy Place refers to God's rightful place as above all, the only one to be worshiped.
The anti-christ will place himself in that place demanding to be worshiped.
Mark 13:14 states "standing where he ought not".

I would simply encourage you to reconsider the following words of Jesus:

Matthew chapter 24

[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The proper way to determine exactly what "the holy place" is is by simply doing what Jesus instructed us to do.

In other words, we need to check and see what "Daniel the prophet" said about the same.

In Daniel's writings, as I've already documented, "the holy place" is clearly the temple of God in Jerusalem.

Again, this is precisely why Jesus gave these instructions to "them which be in Judaea" or to the Jews in the land that was given to the tribe of Judah by inheritance which includes Jerusalem.

 

[4ChristAlone]

Time spent in study does not always lead to greater understanding.
An example---
I spent my life in the construction business.
Many time I had workers with only a few years experience that had greater skills and knowledge than those with many more years experience.

I know and have known believers new to the faith with much more knowledge than some that had many years of Bible study.
Many study to learn while others study to PROVE what they believe.

Thats why I added "Regardless, the time invested still doesnt mean that they are always correct about all things." I also used my own number of years to state that I have my own areas I don't have a great understanding in.

All the more power to any disciple who gives themselves wholly to the word and who earnestly and honestly desires to prove what they believe when it comes to what is true, especially by using the scriptures. Afterall we are to prove all things and in Acts 17:11 we see there were those commended for searching the scriptures daily to see whether what was being preached was so. It's a great exercise for both the one handling the word and those testing and proving those things.

There are definitely those who preach wrong things and those who preach right things, just as there are those who handle the word correctly and those who do not. Some preach out of strife and envy and others out of good will. These are all true too.

 

[DWR]

Work got rained out today,
While I have enjoyed the respectful discussion of end time events, that was not the intention of this thread so I will be the first to stop. There are many other threads on the end time.

 

[DWR]

Thats why I added "Regardless, the time invested still doesnt mean that they are always correct about all things." I also used my own number of years to state that I have my own areas I don't have a great understanding in.

All the more power to any disciple who gives themselves wholly to the word and who earnestly and honestly desires to prove what they believe when it comes to what is true, especially by using the scriptures. Afterall we are to prove all things and in Acts 17:11 we see there were those commended for searching the scriptures daily to see whether what was being preached was so. It's a great exercise for both the one handling the word and those testing and proving those things.

There are definitely those who preach wrong things and those who preach right things, just as there are those who handle the word correctly and those who do not. Some preach out of strife and envy and others out of good will. These are all true too.

I also have a great respect for those who have spent much of their time in the study of God's word.
The same respect is for those who have taken advantage of the opportunity to set under respected teachers and learn from them.
I have been given the opportunity to teach Bible classes from time to time and count it an honor but also a very awesome responsibility. There is ample warning given to those who do not teach the truth.
I always tell any that I teach that while I am convinced I am right, they should never take my word for it. It is their responsibility to study for themselves and if they find I am wrong they have a responsibility to confront me and point out the error.
BUT, I really have an issue with those who are always right, offer the reasons listed in my first post, and demand to be believed. They then proceed to belittle those who disagree with them.

 

[throughfaith]

" If he's not Lord of all ,then he's not Lord at all" ( Lordshippers )

 

[throughfaith]

"Yes Jesus paid for your past sins , but....."

 

[throughfaith]

" To be properly born again you need 4 things . Repent , believe, be baptised and receive ..Miss any one of these necessary steps and you will not be properly ' birthed ' "

 

[Journeyman]

Red flags usually mean danger.

Often when speaking to others about Bible truths, they say things that set off a red flag warning in my mind.
Same is true when I read what some post on this forum.
This is most often true when people speak about about end time events.

Some things that set off a red flag are-----
"God revealed it to me."
"God told me."
"God showed me in a dream."
"God gave me the gift of discernment."
"I have spent 40 years studying."
And one of my favorites---
"This verse is a spiritual alluding to."

1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace"

But I see people who make the claims I mentioned above who can never agree on when or what will happen in the future.
Someone must be wrong, and most likely ALL are wrong.

When people make these claims, I tend to ignore all they say.

God isn't the author of confusion, but when Jesus appeared, many people were confused.

The Prophets were the fewest in number, but to not believe them, would be not to believe God.

The Scribes devoted their lives to the study of scripture, but many didn't recognize the Messiah.

And the scriptures are discerned by the Holy Spirit.

If misconceptions of what the Bible says are taught in schools or church congregations, heresy snowballs.

The best thimg we can do is Isa.58:6-11