Not By Works

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Phoneman-777 said:
It's conditional: upon condition that we exercise our free will choice to surrender our will to His will and remain in that surrendered relationship while trusting He will accomplish all that He has promised to do.

When people understand that surrender is not "works", but "thought", then they will cease from this false dichotomy between "works" and "grace".

Now, what are your thoughts about 1 John 2:3-4 KJV, which says the man who says he loves God and is OSAS, but "keeps not His commandments is a liar, and the truth (Jesus) is not in him"?
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what are your thoughts on John, in his same letter, said that the commands are to " believe on the name of the Son and love another"

i have pointed this out to you several times, and other than trying to make James contradict John, you never addressed it.
 
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Phoneman-777 said:
Yes, which means "no eternal life in them" not "dead to God's voice calling them to repentance".
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No. Scriptures says natural man is DEAD in trespasses and sins (Eph.2:1,5). Dead. They are not somehow "alive" "to God's voice calling them to repentance". That's your making. A dead man has no abilities.
Phoneman-777 said:
Yes, God gives us power over our lives and free will to exercise that power for good or for evil.
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Got scripture for that? Would you not see a difference between a natural man and a spiritual man?
Phoneman-777 said:
That's alright. I'm sure others who might be reading that part understand full well and agree with my premise that Calvinism makes humans more depraved than Satan because somehow sinners can't even hope to look in God's direction while Satan can gain His audience, debate Him, accuse Him, etc. Sometimes we have to read something two or three times to grasp it.
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Satan may have this, for a reason. However what he has can not make him just before God. Same thing with natural man. That's why God quickens him so that he may get right with Him. In and by himself natural man lacks that ability.
Phoneman-777 said:
The best source is the "L" in TULIP: "Limited Atonement" which is no different than the claims of other forms of "Exclusivity Religion" like Luciferian occultism, Catholicism, Judaism, Black Hebrew Israelites, British Hebrew Israelites, etc. Are you sure you're a Calvinist? :)
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Eh? That's your mere opinion then but it leaves much to ask. Calvinism is not saying "only in our organization or cult can you can be saved" or similar. It actually gives due honor to the One who is the author of salvation.

The "exclusivist" insinuation (which you hitherto has not backed up with any sources) is really not adding much to a serious discussion. I hope you do not belong to those who tell other people (who differ from you in beliefs) what they believe rather than to first ask them or read up on what they believe.
 
Phoneman-777 said:
Wonderful promises, one and all. But, just like the Pharisees of old who claimed the promises of God while refusing to meet the conditions for them -- surrender -- the modern day OSAS Pharisees, too, claim the promises of God without meeting the same condition.

Jesus tells you to abide in the Vine, and of the consequences for ceasing to do so, but away with the Bible and in its place we will have our false doctrine which says Christ and Satan have joint custody, where we can occasionally be grafted into either the Vine or the Holly tree.

Make no mistake, our surrender must be freely given, permanent, and UNCONDITIONAL.
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Most of who claim OSAS BELIEVERS are literally Born Again believers. MOST of us have SURRENDERED to CHRIST as LORD of our LIVES. YET again you spew lies about our BELIEFS. VERY FEW OSAS are anywhere's close being mondern day Pharisees. Pharisees only believe in the HEAD, while most of us UNDERSTAND it has to be in OUR HEARTS (coequals to the Human Spirit), or it equals NON-SAVED. You really have Fallen for a BIG BUNCH OF HOGWASH about our Beliefs, haven't you ? ? ?
 
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7,500 pages and 150,000 posts in this thread and it's still the same story.

the scripture says it is by grace through faith, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
the accuser says anyone who believes this is teaching, encouraging & practicing sin.

o_O

Phoneman-777 said:
What a hermeneutical mess that is.

. . .some OSAS false prophet told him the grace of his lord is a license to keep on sinning, he didn't allow that grace to transform his character into that of his lord
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isn't it a bit ironic that you call me a 'hermeneutical mess' while you yourself insert some imaginary 'false prophet' into the parable that is not in the text at all?
show me the verse describing the fantasy person who told these make-believe things to the wicked servant . . ?

here you are adding imaginary characters to scripture, purely fictional targets for the animosity that dwells in your heart, yet at the same time you go around saying you're the one 'reasoning from scripture instead of human ideas'

remarkable
 
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VCO said:
You really have Fallen for a BIG BUNCH OF HOGWASH about our Beliefs, haven't you ? ? ?
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people who get all their information about our faith from those who despise our faith do not gain a right understanding of our faith.
it only makes matters worse when they won't listen to people who actually believe God is faithful to preserve them.

imagine we go to an Buddhist forum and tell all of them what they believe, berating them for all kinds of things that none of them actually believe or practice, not listening to anything they tell you trying to correct your wrong thinking. what would we look like to them? like a fool, right?

imagine a Muslim comes here to visit, and tells us what we believe, attacking it non-stop without listening to anyone correcting his errors, misrepresentations and bad information. what would we think of him? and what would we do -- would we just return fire with a lot of our own mistaken misrepresentations of Islam?
 
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Phoneman-777 said:
It's conditional: upon condition that we exercise our free will choice to surrender our will to His will and remain in that surrendered relationship while trusting He will accomplish all that He has promised to do.
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you confessed that you can do nothing of yourself.
  • where'd you get choice if you can do nothing of yourself?
  • how are you exercising something if you can do nothing of yourself?
  • how do you surrender if you can do nothing of yourself?
  • how is it you can trust if you can do nothing of yourself?
  • where did you get will when you can do nothing of yourself?
  • where did you get freedom if you can do nothing of yourself?
you said a bunch of stuff that you do; your will, your choice, your exercise.
but scripture says it is not of human will, desire or effort, but of God who has mercy.

did you look in the mirror this morning and forget that you can do nothing of yourself?
you can do nothing of yourself.

Phoneman-777 said:
Now, what are your thoughts about 1 John 2:3-4 KJV, which says the man who says he loves God and is OSAS, but "keeps not His commandments is a liar, and the truth (Jesus) is not in him"?
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here's my super-profound revelatory thought for you:

1 John 2:3 comes after 1 John 2:1
 
posthuman said:
here's my super-profound revelatory thought for you:

1 John 2:3 comes after 1 John 2:1
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1-John2-1-2s.png


1 John 2:1-2 :)
 
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Guojing said:
That is why Israel don’t have present salvation even though they obeyed God in following the law.

For us born after the fall of Israel, we are justified thru the faith of Christ now. For Israel, that justification by Christ faith will only come later
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a. All Jews who believe the Gospel are saved the same as Gentiles who believe the Gospel.

b. I believe that scripture teaches that God will spiritually revive Israel the nation.
 
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Phoneman-777 said:
How so, when the baskets are different? The one is a secure, sealed container from which the occupants can never leave no matter how confining and restrictive it becomes to them, while the other is just as secure, but uncovered to allow these same uncomfortable ones the freewill choice to return from whence they came.
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It seems to me that the Elect are changed so that they do not want to walk away from God. Phil. 2:13.
 
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VCO said:
As far as I am concerned, Surrendering to JESUS as LORD is a Prerequisite to being BORN AGAIN.
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At the core of the concept of “Surrender” is “cease to govern one’s self by one’s own laws and submit to be laws of the conqueror.”

“He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar...”
 
Phoneman-777 said:
At the core of the concept of “Surrender” is “cease to govern one’s self by one’s own laws and submit to be laws of the conqueror.”

“He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar...”
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and i point this out again- same man, same letter- " and this is His command, to believe in the name of the Son and love one another".

can't just cherry pick verses and present them as stand alone.
 
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Psalm 103 NIV
103 1 Praise the Lord, my soul; all my inmost being, praise his holy name. 2 Praise the Lord, my soul, and forget not all his benefits- 3 who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, 4 who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion, 5 who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.
 
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star said:
Psalm 103 NIV
103 1 Praise the Lord, my soul; all my inmost being, praise his holy name. 2 Praise the Lord, my soul, and forget not all his benefits- 3 who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, 4 who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion, 5 who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.
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Psalm103-1s.png


Psalm 103:1 :)
 
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