Is the Holy Spirit showing us God can be anywhere and everywhere at the same time (Omnipresent|Omniscient)?

Blik · Mar 18, 2021

You are adding words to scripture. You added "it was required". Jesus became the high priest, that was how God had it at the beginning of time. The sacrificial system was a shadow of Christ, and Christ fulfilled that shadow.

When we are baptized we are cleansed of sin, that is the way scripture explains it. That is much clearer than "cleansing the sacrifice".

pittsburghjoe · Mar 18, 2021

The Baptism becomes the third most important event in Jesus's ministry. The Old Testament is all about High Priests with requirements. The point of Christ showing up here was to become the Ultimate High Priest. You can't be a High Priest without making a sacrifice ..Jesus was the Sacrifice.

It was, in fact, part of the ordination ritual for the high priest to be ceremonially bathed:

[Lev 8:6 NLT] (6) Then he presented Aaron and his sons and washed them with water.

via Bill Ross

posthuman · Mar 18, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

i would say 'infinite dimensional' -- above all, seeing and knowing all. unreachable unless He reaches out to us

posthuman · Mar 18, 2021

Blik said:

i agree; remember John said it wasn't right, that he should be the one being baptized - but Jesus told him "it is fitting" for righteousness. Christ, possessor of all heaven and earth, King of all kings, came as a servant, meek and lowly. He did many astounding things once we realize who He is - amazing things, to think, this is the Creator God Almighty, and look! He's humbled Himself to dwell with us!

pittsburghjoe · Mar 18, 2021

You can't give us The Way without becoming the Ultimate High Priest. The rules of becoming a High Priest were already set before Jesus got here. Everything was planned.

Blik · Mar 19, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

When we read about the shadow of Christ, as the OT is, it helps us understand the fulfillment of those texts, as Christ is. A shadow is a true outline of what it shadows.

pittsburghjoe · Mar 19, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

His authority and anointing to preach the gospel is what came at baptism, because that was the appointed time for the kingdom to be preached .

when you say he became a man with his own spirit , I’m not understanding what you are meaning . Are toy
Talking about his life prior to ministry ?

brother his life on earth as the son , is an example for us who are the children. Yes he had the Holy Spirit from birth it’s his spirit when he received it at baptism it was the anointing and power to begin preaching the gospel and doing all he did . Not because he wasn’t Jesus before but because Gods plan all has timing and it has become time for salvation to begin to be preached after all the darkness that had been filling the world

even John the Baptist had the Holy Ghost even in the womb the Holy Spirit is Gods presence with man . That’s what Jesus receiving that baptism is about an example for us showing that through belief repenatance and remission of baptism Gods spirit comes to be with us .

it’s actually his spirit that came from heaven and lit upon him , but so we can understand about the children he had to come and be one of us and while on earth humble himself and make himself subject to God as we are but he himself is God revealed . The Holy Ghost is the spirit of Jesus Christ , his particulate baptism was aboit an appointed time and anointing to preach and live out the gospel

Jesus time had come and he gave an example for the children in the form of the son.

When you receive the holy spirit you are receiving the father and son because they are one all three are one being. If one receives the Holy Ghost father and son are there if we receive Christ father and son and Holy Ghost are there there the same just manifest differently for our abilities to grasp The unknowable

I think your responses in this thread is what lead me to the point of this answer. Thank you soo much. Let me know if you think I should add something to it. I'm attempting to pay to promote it on twitter so maybe someone will see it. Joseph James Lazar's answer to Was Jesus's Baptism about cleansing the Sacrifice ..Himself? Is it a big deal because it was a requirement for Jesus to become the High Priest on the Cross? - Quora

Pilgrimshope · Mar 19, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

you are most welcome brother , thank you for all of your responses and for bearing with me as it takes awhile sometimes for me to get around to the point I’m struggling to make

I appreciate your spirit a lot in that I find no malice , or selfishness in your approach to others and allow them to speak without judgement until you actually see what’s being said

I look at that as a point I need to take better myself.

I perceive you to have a good solid grasp of what you are saying there and wouldn’t change a thing I believe you are the kind of person who does thier due diligence when it comes to understanding something

Pilgrimshope · Mar 19, 2021

Blik said:

amen or looking through a dingy veil at someone you see the shape and silhouette and the shape is accurate but the details are not visible.

the ot is a shadow of what was approaching the world in Christ

Pilgrimshope · Mar 19, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

Amen and amen that plan unfolding is what we are experiencing in the world over time since the beginning Gods plan ever unfolding until the end

Jesus coming forth was that time in the plan that was always set in place

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what a line huh ? “ delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God “ that’s a phrase that holds mass understabding in my own thinking everything comes from that

everything was planned from that “ wisdom” you were talking about and the plan unfolding is our reality as time advances his plan unfolds and as time unfolds his plan is advancing and being further revealed

Pilgrimshope · Mar 19, 2021

posthuman said:

i agree; remember John said it wasn't right, that he should be the one being baptized - but Jesus told him "it is fitting" for righteousness. Christ, possessor of all heaven and earth, King of all kings, came as a servant, meek and lowly. He did many astounding things once we realize who He is - amazing things, to think, this is the Creator God Almighty, and look! He's humbled Himself to dwell with us!

that is such an awesome statement brother nicely put

Pilgrimshope · Mar 19, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

yes amen and first the priest had to be a son of Man because men are who need a priest to intercede.

he truly is by nature Jehovah Jirah. Truly “ I AM” reveals his nature to become all we need to be saved in every way. He is apostle and high priest

“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our teacher and shepherd , he is the bread of life in that he have his flesh for the world , the priest the sacrifice , the mediator , the intercessor in all ways between God and man .

He himself being the author of salvation

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus isn’t only the priest but also firstly the mediator of the new and eternal covenant which he presided over as priest

unlike the ot which had moses
Mediation and then another mans priesthood authority to preside over the mediators law

but Christ is all for us he is as Moses and Aaron , all the blood sacrifices of atonement , and the lord himself all
In one in our covenant it’s all Jesus

pittsburghjoe · Mar 19, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Amen and amen that plan unfolding is what we are experiencing in the world over time since the beginning Gods plan ever unfolding until the end

Jesus coming forth was that time in the plan that was always set in place

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what a line huh ? “ delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God “ that’s a phrase that holds mass understabding in my own thinking everything comes from that

everything was planned from that “ wisdom” you were talking about and the plan unfolding is our reality as time advances his plan unfolds and as time unfolds his plan is advancing and being further revealed

Is the determinate counsel ..the Jewish elders that sent Him to die? Or is it some kind of Angel thing?

Yes, that "wisdom" needs looked into. God's imagination perhaps? Or something we humans can't comprehend.

pittsburghjoe · Mar 19, 2021

Why would Christ be watching God the Father create when Christ was the one that physically created? It sounds like Christ was watching God the Father's plan/design.

Proverbs 8
22 The Lord possessed (created) me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

pittsburghjoe · Mar 19, 2021

Could it be related to this?:

Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Is Christ the Alpha and Omega, with God the Father being Higher than that?

Pilgrimshope · Mar 19, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

Yes his wisdom beforehand who really knows what was before creation but we know God was and is and will always be though creation may rise and fall creation. Remains in his hands and we are only a part of a much larger complete image

but we do know and can know God is the beginning , middle , and end and without him there is nothing worth having

The “ determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God “ sent Jesus.

In other words “Gods wisdom sent Jesus” God understands and knows the end of things from the beginning because his word is what is determining things.

Paul is saying to the Jews that insisted he be crucified , that Gods wisdom had sent Jesus to them his “ determinate counsel and foreknowledge “ sent them a messiah and they had handed him over to be crucified . When they believe what peters saying he begins to preach the gospel and they end up being baptized and saved among the body of Christ on earth.

even those who had rejected him priorly had some of them repented and believed like Paul ended up doing.

Gods foreknowledge is what prophecy is about from the time man fell into sin in Eden God said a son of Eve would overcome the serpent

“And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed..... And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this speaks of the war between Satan and the sons of men but also Christ who would crush his head a son born in the flesh of man a seed of eves flesh.

this promise of a son who would deliver mankind continues

“And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:....

And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-16, 18‬ ‭

and So on to David and Jesse Abraham , Isaac and Jacob

“And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭26:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these are all promises made from the “determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God “ that we’re speaking forth of Jesus

A good example of the power of Gods determinate counsel and foreknowledge is the promise and birth of Isaac

“As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

...And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:4-5, 7, 15-16, 18-21‬ ‭

Isaac was like Jesus sent to Abraham and Sarah by Gods determinate counsel and foreknowledge of what is to be

when we get to the New Testament we are seeing those promises beginning to come to pass as all nations are included in the gospels great commission so a Abraham’s seed is now sent to all people who believe

So when we see this it makes good sense knowing what God had always been saying

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Which means all nations have been blessed through the promised seed from the beginning

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Prophecy is about foresight , foreknowledge and what God said was coming to pass , the New Testament about fulfillment and what Jesus said is coming to pass in the New Testament

those promises were always preplanned and began to be announced as early as eves seed

pittsburghjoe · Mar 20, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Yes his wisdom beforehand who really knows what was before creation but we know God was and is and will always be though creation may rise and fall creation. Remains in his hands and we are only a part of a much larger complete image

but we do know and can know God is the beginning , middle , and end and without him there is nothing worth having

The “ determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God “ sent Jesus.

In other words “Gods wisdom sent Jesus” God understands and knows the end of things from the beginning because his word is what is determining things.

Paul is saying to the Jews that insisted he be crucified , that Gods wisdom had sent Jesus to them his “ determinate counsel and foreknowledge “ sent them a messiah and they had handed him over to be crucified . When they believe what peters saying he begins to preach the gospel and they end up being baptized and saved among the body of Christ on earth.

even those who had rejected him priorly had some of them repented and believed like Paul ended up doing.

Gods foreknowledge is what prophecy is about from the time man fell into sin in Eden God said a son of Eve would overcome the serpent

“And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed..... And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this speaks of the war between Satan and the sons of men but also Christ who would crush his head a son born in the flesh of man a seed of eves flesh.

this promise of a son who would deliver mankind continues

“And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:....

And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-16, 18‬ ‭

and So on to David and Jesse Abraham , Isaac and Jacob

“And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭26:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these are all promises made from the “determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God “ that we’re speaking forth of Jesus

A good example of the power of Gods determinate counsel and foreknowledge is the promise and birth of Isaac

“As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

...And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:4-5, 7, 15-16, 18-21‬ ‭

Isaac was like Jesus sent to Abraham and Sarah by Gods determinate counsel and foreknowledge of what is to be

when we get to the New Testament we are seeing those promises beginning to come to pass as all nations are included in the gospels great commission so a Abraham’s seed is now sent to all people who believe

So when we see this it makes good sense knowing what God had always been saying

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Which means all nations have been blessed through the promised seed from the beginning

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Prophecy is about foresight , foreknowledge and what God said was coming to pass , the New Testament about fulfillment and what Jesus said is coming to pass in the New Testament

those promises were always preplanned and began to be announced as early as eves seed

Oh, I was way off. I understand this now: "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God", thanks.

Did Christ experience God the Father's plan/design before the Universe creation, in Proverbs 8:22-31? Are we being told what happened before our creation?

Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

Is Christ the Alpha and Omega of God the Father's plan/design?

MattforJesus · Mar 20, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God the Father is not in another dimension because He is an omnipresent Spirit.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Jesus dwells in the heaven and earth at the same time and no person has seen Jesus and no person will ever see Jesus for He is an invisible Spirit but showed a visible manifestation to the Jews.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The Lord is that Spirit and the Holy Spirit is an omnipresent Spirit.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The Father is dwelling in the Son and He did the works because the Father is in heaven and on earth at the same time.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in heaven and earth at the same time.

Pilgrimshope · Mar 20, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

yes determinate counsel and foreknowledge , this is the nature of whatever God speaks . I am sorry for keeping on this statement but you are so close t understanding faith in that phrase

Determinate counsel and foreknowledge

“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his word determined that light was going to shine and it did .

“And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods word is determinate and creates foreknowledge . He told Adam what would happen if he ate the fruit . He wasn’t saying “ if you disobey I will destroy you “ but he was saying from knowledge “you are free to eat of any tree in the garden but if you eat this particular fruit you will certainly die “

a warning from his foreknowledge
. he is speaking from determinate counsel and foreknowledge.

“The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

...And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:11-14, 17-18, 22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he first determines the outcome and then gives Noah the foreknowledge of what’s coming if Noah believes he will live .

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”

‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he told Moses his determinate counsel from foreknowledge and Moses believed. We come to Christ eventually and it’s the same

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”

‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭

“And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:39-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So if his word has that principle that it is sure to come to pass because it is determinate and spoken from foreknowledge what good news this is for a believer

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That word is as sure as “let there be light “ because Gods spoke it from his determinate counsel and forknowlesge Gods determinate counsel and foreknowledge has spoken in the gospel but what will we do ? Believe and be saved or disbelieve and be damned ? Gid has declared the end To is from his determinate counsel and foreknowledge but do we believe him is the question of

ChoirLoft · Mar 21, 2021

Blik said:

NOT THE SAME THING. Read your Bible. Geez people.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit has come to be misrepresented as a doctrinal aberration invented by Pentacostals, a group which is about as Biblically confused as one can get. The secular origins of modern pentecostals grew out of the Holiness movement of the mid-19th century (at the same time as a number of other aberrations such as Mormonism, spiritualism/occultism, Dispensationalism, etc.).

Oddly the name Pentacostalism is derived from the Greek word describing the Jewish Festival of Weeks - Pentacost/Shavout , which is also an observance of the time God gave THE LAW to Moses. Strangely, pentecostal church types routinely deny the LAW upon which they base the name of their particular group. Confused? It gets better.

On that same calendar day, the Holy Spirit fell upon an assembly of Talmidim (Hebrew word for disciples) - 120 Jews, btw. The event is observed as the first time the Holy Spirit fell upon an assembly of average people. Previously, the Holy Anointing was reserved only for Levitical priests (kohanim), prophets or kings. Today the pentecostals believe their particular form of spiritual jitterbugging is representative of a blessing beyond and above salvation. They believe they alone have appropriated this second blessing. It isn't and they haven't. If you're still following me, keep reading.

Salvation is based upon the LAW, which they deny. Read Exodus & Leviticus.

No one can be saved apart from the LAW, which requires blood to be shed as payment for SIN. Prior to Jesus' day this bloodletting was accomplished by killing animals at the temple in Jerusalem. Different animals were sacrificed/offered at different times on different occasions - except for lambs. One is required BY THE LAW to come forward at the temple and to kill the animal with one's own hands at the altar. Going forward at a revival meeting to be saved is considered an appropriate act today. It's thought by pentecostals and evangelicals to be traditional by those who are really confused about the LAW - which requires THE SAME THING. But there was a problem with animal sacrifice. It was temporary because animals, like human SINners, are mortal. Therefore animal sacrifice had to be done constantly and continually. If you've ever cleaned out your back yard BBQ after a holiday you can appreciate how messy the job could have been. The LAW wasn't perfect because the sacrifices were mortal and temporary. Enter Jesus - the immortal God and perfect sacrifice. Because HE is immortal HE only had to die once, making the LAW's requirement perfect. Hence the writer of Hebrews 8:13 states the old law is passing away. The passage was written just prior to the demolition of the 2nd temple. Animal sacrifice was still going on when 8:13 was written. (Some scholars use this as evidence much of the NT was written at nearly the same time in history as Jesus' ministry - not centuries later.) But what's all this got to do with pentecost?

Ephesians 1:14 assures us that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is, "a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory". In Paul's second letter to the Corinthians he wrote in 1:22 that, "his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." Anyone who has made their peace with God and surrendered their will to Him will receive the indwelling Holy Spirit as evidence and proof of God's promise of immortal life. But what of the Holy Spirit? Why doesn't it bless humanity with a constant high - as Pentacostals claim it will? It doesn't, but they would have us believe they've got a special handle on the situation. They don't. John writes in 3:8 of his gospel about the nature of the Holy Spirit. "The wind blows wherever it pleases," John writes. "You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Do Pentacostals experience the dramatic movement of the Holy Spirit within their lives at certain times? Certainly they do, but certainly also does everyone else who surrenders to Christ in truth and in spirit. One does not have to utter a loose tongue to prove it. That particular circus act is reserved for a specific community.

A few paragraphs earlier I wrote that animal sacrifices were abundantly required by the LAW of Moses. Several types and kinds of animals were to be brought by individuals for payment for their SINs - except lambs. Only the high priest (Kohan Gadol) would sacrifice a lamb, only once a year, and only within the Holy of Holies. Only the lamb was sacrificed. Its purpose was as a sacrifice for SIN for the priest & the entire nation, all the tribes of Israel, ALL AT ONCE. Thus Jesus Christ (Y'shuah ha-mashiach as His true name reads in Hebrew) had to die once and for all the people. (John 11:51) Jesus is the passover lamb (Mark 4:12 & Exodus 12) for all who accept Him and for all time. Perfect, unless you're a pentecostal and still confused. Please pick up your Bible and read it.

When a SINner confesses their SIN and repents of it (promise not to repeat it) and asks for forgiveness, God reciprocates by granting forgiveness AND immortal life. He doesn't need to provide proof of this, but in His mercy He does. This proof is in the form of the granting of the Holy Spirit to the new believer. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit was a special event chronicled in Mathew 3:13. At that time all three aspects of God were present; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That particular baptism was a unique one time special deal. Pentacostals cannot lay claim to exclusive rights to that point in history. They have enough problems trying to figure out the small tidbits of the Bible they do hear about.

Read the Bible. Learn something new every time.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Is the Holy Spirit showing us God can be anywhere and everywhere at the same time (Omnipresent|Omniscient)?

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