When Has God Gathered After He Scattered Without Any Repentance?

[vic1980]

God is done with Literal Israel and is now dealing with Spiritual Israel, per Isaiah 5. Prophecy must be reckoned by application of “Israel” to what Paul says is “Abraham’s seed” - Spiritual Israel which is the church.

Something to examine , in the book of Romans Paul stated the following:​

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles , ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.​

In the book of Revelations John is shown that there are 144,000 that are not Gentiles believers , but are from all the tribes of the children of Israel ...

Revelation 7:4

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Shalom ...​

 

[kaylagrl]

Jesus floats my boat! PTL!

Now there is an excellent response!

 

[kaylagrl]

I rather understand Scripture literally, without having to impose additional assumptions into what people in the bible "must have known".

But whatever floats your boat.

So when the Bibles says if your eye offends you, take it out, you believe in poppin' that sucker out do you? Take the Bible literally where it should be and figuratively where it should be. Learn to know the difference.

 

[posthuman]

The inspired words of the prophet Solomon declare God would always listen from heaven for the repentant cries of His scattered people and bring them back to the land after scattering them for disobedience.

You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find a single instance where God gathered Israel back to the land after scattering them for disobedience without them first having repented. His promises of deliverance regarding the Babylonian captivity are not an exception -- we know for a fact the Babylonian captivity not only permanently cured Israel of their idolatry, but led to the institution of hundreds of (anti-idolatry) laws meant to keep the people from ever falling under the spell of idolatry again. These laws, unfortunately, eventually became for the people the focus and the means for obtaining salvation rather than the representative lamb offered morning and evening which pointed to the Messiah.

ISRAEL HAS NEVER REPENTED OF KILLING JESUS CHRIST.​

So, why do Christians disregard God's own divinely established principle for "scattering and gathering" and insist He had a hand in the events of 1948 when it can be shown that the occult U.N., the occult U.S. "Deep State", and the occult Papacy were behind them? Their disregard for this divine principle has led them to wrongly attribute Biblical promises to those who today call Jesus "son of a whore" and "the great imposter" rather than to whom God's promises pertain in our day: the Church, which is "Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise" because it is the Church which belongs to Christ, not impenitent pseudo-Jewish descendants of the pagan Khazarian Empire who don't have a drop of Semitic blood in them.

The Israelites were neither repentant nor faithful nor did they trust God nor do what is right when He brought them out of Egypt.

 

[posthuman]

Jesus floats my boat! PTL!

buoyancy floats my boat

 

[Phoneman-777]

Something to examine, in the book of Romans Paul stated the following:

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles , ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.​

Something else to examine is that when Paul refers to "Jew" and "Gentile", it's for the benefit of a 1st century population accustomed to making the distinction which has yet to learn the Cross has revolutionized the theological world by eliminating the distinction. For us who are so near to the climax of Earth's history to return to this distinction only serves to prove that the devil indeed is now working "with all deceivableness of unrighteousness" even among those in the church.

In the book of Revelations John is shown that there are 144,000 that are not Gentiles believers , but are from the tribes of the children of Israel ...

​

Revelation 7:4

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. ​

Shalom ...

Another thing to examine is that Revelation is a highly symbolic book...and since the 12 tribes of Literal Israel have been totally lost in the polluted genepool of history, the symbols "Jew" or "Israel" in prophecy can only refer to those who are the only remaining descendants of Abraham:

"If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs, according to the promise" which is Spiritual Israel aka the Protestant Church.​

Shalom

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, they had to obey the Covenant of the Law.

That is not equivalent to saying that they are saved by the Law.

What would happen if they did not obey the law. Would they be saved?

Please answer the question

 

[Guojing]

What would happen if they did not obey the law. Would they be saved?

Please answer the question

You should phrase that correctly as "Will they be saved in the future" if they did not obey the Law before Christ came.

The answer is no. Obeying the Covenant of the Law was necessary to be included in Abraham's bosom.

They will be saved by showing faith in obeying what God commanded them to do. When Jesus returns for Israel in his 2nd coming, that is when he will usher Israel into their promised kingdom to receive salvation, based on that faith in God.

That is my answer to your question.

 

[Guojing]

So when the Bibles says if your eye offends you, take it out, you believe in poppin' that sucker out do you? Take the Bible literally where it should be and figuratively where it should be. Learn to know the difference.

Yes, its supposed to be literal since the gospel of the kingdom promised physical healing to Israel.

When Jesus came to Israel, they are to believe in him as the Son of God, be water baptized and to follow the Law of Moses, in order to receive their future salvation.

So if having 2 eyes or 2 limbs means falling into lust, adultery, that might disqualify them from the coming kingdom, so yes, it is literally better to be maimed to get in, Jesus already promised to Israel that he can heal all who came to him anyway (Matthew 10:7-8)

But we are excluded from that promise when Jesus was here in the flesh (Ephesians 2:11-12), so that passage is not for our instructions today.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The Israelites were neither repentant nor faithful nor did they trust God nor do what is right when He brought them out of Egypt.

And yet, many still insist they are yet "Abraham's seed" LOL

How can "all the families of the Earth be blessed" by anything that Literal Israel (if they still existed) has to offer? That promise was fulfilled with the coming of Christ and "all the promises to the father are yea and are amen in Him" which are now for Spiritual Israel, since it is only they that are "in Him".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You should phrase that correctly as "Will they be saved in the future" if they did not obey the Law before Christ came.

The answer is no. Obeying the Covenant of the Law was necessary to be included in Abraham's bosom.

They will be saved by showing faith in obeying what God commanded them to do. When Jesus returns for Israel in his 2nd coming, that is when he will usher Israel into their promised kingdom to receive salvation, based on that faith in God.

That is my answer to your question.

thank you

you just proved you believe they are saved by obeying the law

you can deny it all you want, but there is no doubt in anyone else’s mind after this post

 

[oyster67]

buoyancy floats my boat

I know Jesus is risen, but I never thought of it that way.

 

[Guojing]

thank you

you just proved you believe they are saved by obeying the law

you can deny it all you want, but there is no doubt in anyone else’s mind after this post

You don’t understand the difference between a necessary condition and a sufficient condition?

If I say oxygen is necessary for fire, Is that equivalent to saying that oxygen results in fire?

As i said, you can explain to someone but you cannot understand for them.

If they refuse to understand, so be it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You don’t understand the difference between a necessary condition and a sufficient condition?

If I say oxygen is necessary for fire, am I also saying that oxygen results in fire?

As i said, you can explain to someone but you cannot understand for them.

If they refuse to understand, so be it.

whatever dude, you say Something then deny it, good day, please do not respond to me anymore i a, done. Playing games

 

[Guojing]

whatever dude, you say Something then deny it, good day, please do not respond to me anymore i a, done. Playing games

That is because you are determined not to understand, for reasons only you yourself will know.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is because you are determined not to understand, for reasons only you yourself will know.

Nope,

i a, just sick of your contradictory mambo jumbo and deception you keep trying to preach.

again, please stop responding to me

 

[Phoneman-777]

thank you

you just proved you believe they are saved by obeying the law

you can deny it all you want, but there is no doubt in anyone else’s mind after this post

No one is saved by obedience, not in the OT or NT. Obedience is the evidence that salvation has already been obtained by living faith.

The reason why antinomianists like the OSAS crowd argue so vehemently against obedience to God's law is likely due to their total lack of ability to produce any evidence of living faith...which is why they seek to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

 

[tribesman]

You get lunatics. or fanatics from every group. That does not mean we reject the whole group. or claim that the whole group believes something as has been insinuated.

We have people who claim to hold to dispensational teaching say OT jews were saved not like we are and will return to be saved differently in the tribulation. That does not mean mainstream dispensational teaching is in error. It means we have some who have perverted what dispensational teaching believes.

dispensation sepearation of history and fute is not about how people got saved in different dispensational time periods. Its about separating different periods of time so that it makes it easier to understand and help us figure out scripture in our hermeneutical process. IE. this occurred in this time period. In this time period. how would we interpret this action. We do it today in secular history. it is not something new.

yet we are continuously mocked based on false knowledge of what we actually believe. and people seem to think that is just ok.

thats why I hate trying to lock people into groups. Because not everyone in any group believes the same. And when we lock them into a group. we have cut off any means of humble communication. Because we are judging them based on what we think they believe as a group. Not what is really being said.

if anything, that is the thing about any christian chat group I have ever been a part of that makes it almost unbearable.

I hear ya. It's the systems that are the problem, not the individual.

The thing is, though, that even tho individuals may have sound beliefs otherwise, once they get caught up in some error or even heresy that is part of a certain "ism", that thing have to be dealt with as such and not by way of individualism.

I know whom you are talking about here, a certain Mr G. whose beliefs might even render a ban from this very site. I also know that his beliefs are NOT the mainstream of dispensational thought. He prolly got that from some splinter group or from himself.

This said, I certainly see that line of error as a presumptive danger of general dispensational thought. We have heard people preaching about the Holy Ghost being taken away from earth and people getting saved by martyrdom during the tribulation. Not all dispensationalists teach this, but some have done so.

This chopping up of biblical history in different dispensations, progressive revelation and literal interpretation (did it occur at all before Lacunza/Ribera/Darby/Gäebelein?) and similar opens up for the idea of multiple gospels for different eras. It comes as a result of same.

Hence, I believe a safeguard against general dispensationalism is useful.

 

[tribesman]

see like things like this. This is uncalled for and not true. It arrogant

Just because some take advantage, does not mean the end times things itself is evil

Get a grip brother

Right. End-time things are not evil in and by themselves. However false or erroneous teachings regarding the end-times is. And, this, is a general statement. Does not only have to deal with Israel or second coming topics. Can be anything.

 

[pottersclay]

Here are some scriptures describing what happens after christ return. So much for spiritual israel, no millennium, or jesus does not sit on davids throne.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

As for Israel being saved.

The Lord says:
Celebrate and sing for Israel,
the greatest of nations.
Offer praises and shout,
“Come and rescue
your people, Lord!
Save what’s left of Israel.”
8 I, the Lord, will bring
my people back from Babylonia[c]
and everywhere else on earth.
The blind and the lame
will be there.
Expectant mothers
and women about to give birth
will come and be part
of that great crowd.
9 They will weep and pray
as I bring them home.
I will lead them
to streams of water.
They will walk on a level[d] road
and not stumble.
I am a father to Israel,[e]
my favorite children.
10 Listen to me, you nations
nearby or across the sea.
I scattered the people of Israel,
but I will gather them again.
I will protect them like a shepherd
guarding a flock;
11 I will rescue them from enemies
who could overpower them.
12 My people will come
to Mount Zion
and celebrate;
their faces will glow
because of my blessings.
I’ll give them grain, grapes,
and olive oil,
as well as sheep and cattle.
Israel will be prosperous
and grow
like a garden
with plenty of water.
13 Young women and young men,
together with the elderly,
will celebrate and dance,
because I will comfort them
and turn their sorrow
into happiness.
14 I will bless my people
with more food
than they need,
and the priests will enjoy
the choice cuts of meat.
I, the Lord, have spoken.