Regeneration in the Old Testament?

[throughfaith]

Were they 'regenerated 'in the Old testament ?

Now often this is assumed . So for this discussion I'm looking for scripture. Not syllogisms as to why it 'must ' be the case . If it 'must be 'the case what scriptures do we find that says a person was regenerated in the OT . Not inference and the burden isn't on a person to prove that they were not regenerated . The burden is on those who positively claim they were .
Thoughts?

 

[Moses_Young]

Doesn't the whole circumcision of the heart metaphor refer to regeneration? Off with the dead flesh, on with the new?

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

 

[throughfaith]

Doesn't the whole circumcision of the heart metaphor refer to regeneration? Off with the dead flesh, on with the new?

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

That was a command for THEM to circumcise thier own heart . This is not regeneration. Its not the same as Col 2 which is what God Does..its his ' operation '
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

 

[throughfaith]

That was a command for THEM to circumcise thier own heart . This is not regeneration. Its not the same as Col 2 which is what God Does..its his ' operation '
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Col 2 .
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Live4Him]

That was a command for THEM to circumcise thier own heart . This is not regeneration. Its not the same as Col 2 which is what God Does..its his ' operation '
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Oh, please.

Have you never read the following?

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[6] And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
[7] And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
[8] And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
[9] And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
[10] If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Not only did Moses instruct the Israelites that "the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart", BUT HE ALSO PREACHED UNTO THEM THE SAME EXACT GOSPEL THAT PAUL PREACHED, even as I've shown you before.

Read verses 11 through 14, and then compare them to what Paul said here:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

"The word of faith" which Paul and others preached is EXACTLY what Moses preached to the children of Israel.

That's not my opinion.

Instead, it's EXACTLY what Paul himself said.

 

[Magenta]

That was a command for THEM to circumcise their own heart . This is not regeneration. Its not the same as Col 2 which is what God Does..its his ' operation '
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ

BSB reads: In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful
nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands.

 

[throughfaith]

Oh, please.

Have you never read the following?

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[6] And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
[7] And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
[8] And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
[9] And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
[10] If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Not only did Moses instruct the Israelites that "the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart", BUT HE ALSO PREACHED UNTO THEM THE SAME EXACT GOSPEL THAT PAUL PREACHED, even as I've shown you before.

Read verses 11 through 14, and then compare them to what Paul said here:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

"The word of faith" which Paul and others preached is EXACTLY what Moses preached to the children of Israel.

That's not my opinion.

Instead, it's EXACTLY what Paul himself said.

Nope that's not regeneration. That's to do with the will . Its not the the circumcision of Christ:

 

[Nehemiah6]

Were they 'regenerated 'in the Old testament ?

No. The one who regenerates supernaturally is God the Holy Spirit. The New Birth is internal and miraculous. But until Christ finished His work of redemption, rose again, ascended to Heaven, and sat down at the right hand of the Father, the Holy Spirit could not be poured out upon all flesh. So it was fifty days after the crucifixion, on the day of Pentecost, that the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit to earth. And that is when those who believed received the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38). That is also when believers were regenerated.

TITUS 3: SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH AND REGENERATION
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

We should note "through Jesus Christ our Saviour" since it was necessary for Christ to be in Heaven before the Holy Spirit could come to earth. The OT saints were justified by grace through faith, then perfected or regenerated after the day of Pentecost (Heb 12:22-24).

 

[throughfaith]

No. The one who regenerates supernaturally is God the Holy Spirit. The New Birth is internal and miraculous. But until Christ finished His work of redemption, rose again, ascended to Heaven, and sat down at the right hand of the Father, the Holy Spirit could not be poured out upon all flesh. So it was fifty days after the crucifixion, on the day of Pentecost, that the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit to earth. And that is when those who believed received the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38). That is also when believers were regenerated.

TITUS 3: SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH AND REGENERATION
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

We should note "through Jesus Christ our Saviour" since it was necessary for Christ to be in Heaven before the Holy Spirit could come to earth.

Amen .

 

[throughfaith]

Oh, please.

Have you never read the following?

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[6] And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
[7] And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
[8] And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
[9] And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
[10] If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Not only did Moses instruct the Israelites that "the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart", BUT HE ALSO PREACHED UNTO THEM THE SAME EXACT GOSPEL THAT PAUL PREACHED, even as I've shown you before.

Read verses 11 through 14, and then compare them to what Paul said here:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

"The word of faith" which Paul and others preached is EXACTLY what Moses preached to the children of Israel.

That's not my opinion.

Instead, it's EXACTLY what Paul himself said.

Look again.
IF THOU shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God,TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS STATUTES to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book OF THE LAW and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest DO IT .

Rom 10

4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5¶FOR MOSES DESCRIBETH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF THE LAW That the man which DOETH those things SHALL LIVE BY THEM .

6BUT !!! THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH!!!! SPEAKETH ON THIS WISE Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the WORD OF FAITH , which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

How did you miss the difference ? its completely difference . Did you think it sounds the same that it must be the same?

One is keep the commandments and observe the law and DO IT

Romans 10 is the ' word of FAITH '
Beleiving from the heart .

Paul is deliberately contrasting the two ..He uses the OT verse diverts from it to show the difference. You missed it .

 

[throughfaith]

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; Egypt, and JUDAH, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners...for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of ISRAEL are UNCIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART” (Jer. 9:25–26).
Not regeneration.

 

[Magenta]

Rom 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:4

 

[Magenta]

Colossians 2:11

 

[oldethennew]

OMGoodness,
have you never read HEB. chapter 11???
you are completely deceived, so much so that u have dug your own pit -
we are praying that you listen and hear those in this thread that KNOW
where you are and why you are saying what you are saying -
we are praying for you and your family to be brought out of the 'cult'
that has totally deceived you...

 

[throughfaith]

OMGoodness,
have you never read HEB. chapter 11???
you are completely deceived, so much so that u have dug your own pit -
we are praying that you listen and hear those in this thread that KNOW
where you are and why you are saying what you are saying -
we are praying for you and your family to be brought out of the 'cult'
that has totally deceived you...

Where in Hebrews 11 does it say they were regenerated?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Thus says the Lord God,

Ezekiel 36​

25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.​

26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.​

27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.​

~Deut

 

[throughfaith]

Thus says the Lord God,

Ezekiel 36​

25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.​

26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.​

27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.​

~Deut

' I ' will ' . its yet future for Israel. So still no verse that they were regenerated in the OT .

 

[ewq1938]

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


The implication is that being born again was not a new teaching and "masters" of OT scripture should have known this already. That means being born again is found in the OT:


1 Sam 10:6-9

6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.


Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is being a another man and having a another heart (new man and new heart) after receiving the Holy Spirit the same as being born again? I say yes!


2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[throughfaith]

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


The implication is that being born again was not a new teaching and "masters" of OT scripture should have known this already. That means being born again is found in the OT:


1 Sam 10:6-9

6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.


Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is being a another man and having a another heart (new man and new heart) after receiving the Holy Spirit the same as being born again? I say yes!


2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

like I said .
Were they 'regenerated 'in the Old testament ?

Now often this is assumed . So for this discussion I'm looking for scripture. Not syllogisms as to why it 'must ' be the case . If it 'must be 'the case what scriptures do we find that says a person was regenerated in the OT . Not inference and the burden isn't on a person to prove that they were not regenerated . The burden is on those who positively claim they were .
Thats just inference and assumption.

 

[throughfaith]

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


The implication is that being born again was not a new teaching and "masters" of OT scripture should have known this already. That means being born again is found in the OT:


1 Sam 10:6-9

6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.


Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is being a another man and having a another heart (new man and new heart) after receiving the Holy Spirit the same as being born again? I say yes!


2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Yes ' in Christ ' . After the giving of the Holy Spirit which was after the resurrection.