Woman can't teach in the congregation

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S

Scribe

Guest
#481
#481
Scribe said:
It should be obvious to those filled with the Holy Spirit that God is filling both men and women with the Holy Spirit for the purpose of world evangelism in whatever capacity God wants to use them in. No limits. God will raise up whom He will raise up. Any my heart rejoices when I think about it. It is just like God to use a woman in a mighty way to plant and pastor a church just because she is despised and considered incapable by the religious pharisees. Just like God to do that. I would that all God's people were prophets and that He would pour His Spirit upon them all. Many women planted and pastored churches between 1910 and 1940s I have been reading about them in the history of the Pentecostal movement. There are many churches today pastored by men which were started by women during those years.
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I recently learned about a sister Gibson who started the Zion Bible college which is now the Northpoint Bible College. She also pastored churches that are still around today.

The church I attend was started from a Tent Revival by a woman named Catherine Morrow in the 20s. It was pastored by men the rest of the years since but she was the first pastor for a couple of years. This church has produced numerous pastors who have planted many other churches since then.

All started by one woman who was filled with the Holy Ghost and did not let religious Pharisees tell her she could not do that because she was a woman. I would love to meet her in heave some day. Can you imagine the eternal rewards she has as a result of obeying God. And yet some people are so blind they would say that she was disobedient to God because Paul said a woman can't do that. Like the Pharisees telling Jesus "you cannot heal on the sabbath" Blind and calloused.
 
C

CorrectiveLens

Banned
#482
Dec 30, 2020
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228
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#482
Dino246 said:
This subject gets re-opened, usually by newcomers to CC, about every two to three months. At times the discussion goes on for many pages... sometimes over a hundred. Those who start the threads rarely learn anything, because typically their minds are already made up and they are here to browbeat others with their understanding. So, here we go again.

Typically, the context of the contentious passages is completely ignored, if it is considered at all. Paul was writing to the Corinthians about disorderly meetings and use of gifts. He wrote to Timothy about the cultural context in which Timothy was ministering. Ignore the context, and you will likely conclude from the selected verses that Paul was against female leadership, as the OP has.

Sadly, the OP is just more fulfillment of the words God spoke to Eve... 'but he will rule over you'. So many people take this as a command (which it most definitely isn't) or as warrant for male leadership(again, it isn't).

Anyway, I'll make a pot of coffee and wait for the OP to present an original thought. It might be a while.
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In Genesis 3: 16-17 , after Adam and Eve sinned, Eve was fooled by the serpent but Adam willingly disobeyed. God first goes to Eve and
says, " I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Then He goes to Adam and says, " Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, etc.

Isn't that one of the reasons that woman are not allowed in leadership?
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#483
#483
CorrectiveLens said:
In Genesis 3: 16-17 , after Adam and Eve sinned, Eve was fooled by the serpent but Adam willingly disobeyed. God first goes to Eve and
says, " I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Then He goes to Adam and says, " Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, etc.

Isn't that one of the reasons that woman are not allowed in leadership?
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No, it is the reason that the woman should not usurp authority over her husband.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#484
Jun 30, 2015
25,610
13,863
113
#484
CorrectiveLens said:
In Genesis 3: 16-17 , after Adam and Eve sinned, Eve was fooled by the serpent but Adam willingly disobeyed. God first goes to Eve and
says, " I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Then He goes to Adam and says, " Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, etc.

Isn't that one of the reasons that woman are not allowed in leadership?
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No, it isn't.

Eve was deceived; that says nothing at all about any other woman.

Genesis 3:16 is a statement of consequence, meaning that "he will rule over thee" means that men will rule over women, not that they should or must.
 
C

CorrectiveLens

Banned
#485
Dec 30, 2020
868
228
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#485
Scribe said:
No, it is the reason that the woman should not usurp authority over her husband.
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Scribe said:
No, it is the reason that the woman should not usurp authority over her husband.
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I don't think that Eve forced Adam to disobey God. He willingly disobeyed to please her.

Also, Rom 5: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. Have you ever wondered how could one man's disobedience make many sinners. When God first created the world and all life in it, he didn't create seeds or babies and waited for them to grow. He first created all living creatures as adults that were supposed to produce offsprings after their kind. That means that their offsprings would have the same characteristics as the parents (apple trees produced apple trees, etc.). When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, this tendency to follow their own heart ( they had free will) for selfish reasons is handed down to all descendants. We are all born with this original sin. Eve as the first woman transmits all her characteristics ( including being fooled) to all women.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#486
#486
CorrectiveLens said:
I don't think that Eve forced Adam to disobey God. He willingly disobeyed to please her.

Also, Rom 5: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. Have you ever wondered how could one man's disobedience make many sinners. When God first created the world and all life in it, he didn't create seeds or babies and waited for them to grow. He first created all living creatures as adults that were supposed to produce offsprings after their kind. That means that their offsprings would have the same characteristics as the parents (apple trees produced apple trees, etc.). When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, this tendency to follow their own heart ( they had free will) for selfish reasons is handed down to all descendants. We are all born with this original sin. Eve as the first woman transmits all her characteristics ( including being fooled) to all women.
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That is like saying Jesus does not equip women to teach with the Holy Spirit because they have faults that Jesus can't fix. But he can equip men with the Holy Spirit to teach because Jesus can overcome their natural problems but not women's. It is a really bad hermeneutic of what Paul meant. It cannot possibly be the correct interpretation.

Jesus does not need any natural gifting of a male to make him a good teacher. Instead he takes those that are despised, not many noble, not many wise or talented or eloquent or learned, or any of those things that you would say a male might naturally posses from being male, instead he uses the weak and the broken and the "losers" and the ignorant, and anoints them with the Holy Spirit and he uses the POWER OF GOD in the weak vessel of a man OR WOMAN and God get's all the glory.

Yes! Let the woman who has inherited ALL of Eves Faults and Adams too and have her surrender it all to Jesus Christ and fill her with the Holy Spirit and God will use her to turn the world upside down while the Pharisees pull out their hair, and gnash their teeth and cry "foul" "Foul" Not Fair. SHE"S A WOMAN... ARRGGGGG!!!!

To God be the Glory!!!
 
C

CorrectiveLens

Banned
#487
Dec 30, 2020
868
228
43
#487
Scribe said:
That is like saying Jesus does not equip women to teach with the Holy Spirit because they have faults that Jesus can't fix. But he can equip men with the Holy Spirit to teach because Jesus can overcome their natural problems but not women's. It is a really bad hermeneutic of what Paul meant. It cannot possibly be the correct interpretation.

Jesus does not need any natural gifting of a male to make him a good teacher. Instead he takes those that are despised, not many noble, not many wise or talented or eloquent or learned, or any of those things that you would say a male might naturally posses from being male, instead he uses the weak and the broken and the "losers" and the ignorant, and anoints them with the Holy Spirit and he uses the POWER OF GOD in the weak vessel of a man OR WOMAN and God get's all the glory.

Yes! Let the woman who has inherited ALL of Eves Faults and Adams too and have her surrender it all to Jesus Christ and fill her with the Holy Spirit and God will use her to turn the world upside down while the Pharisees pull out their hair, and gnash their teeth and cry "foul" "Foul" Not Fair. SHE"S A WOMAN... ARRGGGGG!!!!

To God be the Glory!!!
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C

CorrectiveLens

Banned
#488
Dec 30, 2020
868
228
43
#488
I agree that women do receive the Holy Spirit of God and are able to preach the Gospel to individuals and small groups. In Bible study they should be able to ask question and even propose answers to questions. According to the Bible , however, they are not supposed to take leadership roles such as pastors or deacons.

It is possible that women in ancient times were treated differently than they are now. Women in America now are just as educated as men and have equal rights.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#489
Jun 30, 2015
25,610
13,863
113
#489
CorrectiveLens said:
Eve as the first woman transmits all her characteristics ( including being fooled) to all women.
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Bluntly, that's garbage. Nothing in Scripture supports that idea. Women are no more easily fooled than men.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#490
Jun 30, 2015
25,610
13,863
113
#490
CorrectiveLens said:
I agree that women do receive the Holy Spirit of God and are able to preach the Gospel to individuals and small groups. In Bible study they should be able to ask question and even propose answers to questions. According to the Bible , however, they are not supposed to take leadership roles such as pastors or deacons.
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There isn't a passage anywhere in Scripture that restricts women from being pastors. As for being deacons, Phoebe was one, so either Paul was confused, or what he wrote about requirements for deacons does not preclude women.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#491
Oct 13, 2011
4,622
282
83
#491
Soon 500 posts and 25 pages of discussion, when the simple answer is no.

A regular day at christianchat dot com.
 
surfer14

surfer14

Banned
#493
Jul 9, 2020
846
492
63
#493
I think women pastors are generally going to be very liberal in their views. Show me a female pastor and they're probably going to be preaching about equality, critical race theory, LGBTP(edophile) rights, social justice, etc. Any female pastor is going to be a feminist.

Show me how I'm wrong. Point me to a few prominent conservative female pastors.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#494
Jun 30, 2015
25,610
13,863
113
#494
surfer14 said:
I think women pastors are generally going to be very liberal in their views. Show me a female pastor and they're probably going to be preaching about equality, critical race theory, LGBTP(edophile) rights, social justice, etc. Any female pastor is going to be a feminist.

Show me how I'm wrong. Point me to a few prominent conservative female pastors.
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Nobody is obligated to show you that you are wrong; that’s a burden of proof reversal. You are responsible to provide evidence to support your ridiculous sexist statements.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#495
#495
surfer14 said:
I think women pastors are generally going to be very liberal in their views. Show me a female pastor and they're probably going to be preaching about equality, critical race theory, LGBTP(edophile) rights, social justice, etc. Any female pastor is going to be a feminist.

Show me how I'm wrong. Point me to a few prominent conservative female pastors.
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Read some history of Evangelical Women pastors in the past 100 years. There are not many because it has never been culturally acceptable. The Assemblies of God has a rich history of holiness preaching, conservative, women preachers and pastors.
You seem to be asking about "celebrity pastors" in which case there is Aimee Simple Mcpherson, Kathryn Kulman, and others like them (search famous pentacostal women pastors) They were all known for preaching holiness, and much more so than probably your favorite male pastors of today.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#496
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#496
Scribe said:
That is like saying Jesus does not equip women to teach with the Holy Spirit because they have faults that Jesus can't fix. But he can equip men with the Holy Spirit to teach because Jesus can overcome their natural problems but not women's. It is a really bad hermeneutic of what Paul meant. It cannot possibly be the correct interpretation.

Jesus does not need any natural gifting of a male to make him a good teacher. Instead he takes those that are despised, not many noble, not many wise or talented or eloquent or learned, or any of those things that you would say a male might naturally posses from being male, instead he uses the weak and the broken and the "losers" and the ignorant, and anoints them with the Holy Spirit and he uses the POWER OF GOD in the weak vessel of a man OR WOMAN and God get's all the glory.

Yes! Let the woman who has inherited ALL of Eves Faults and Adams too and have her surrender it all to Jesus Christ and fill her with the Holy Spirit and God will use her to turn the world upside down while the Pharisees pull out their hair, and gnash their teeth and cry "foul" "Foul" Not Fair. SHE"S A WOMAN... ARRGGGGG!!!!

To God be the Glory!!!
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God is not gender biased. Your post reflects apostate denominational teaching and usurps the sovereignty of God. It is a dangerous thing to replace the wisdom of God with the carnal knowledge of men.

God has established an order for the world. God created man first then Eve. When you violate God's order you rebel against God Himself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#497
#497
notuptome said:
God is not gender biased. Your post reflects apostate denominational teaching and usurps the sovereignty of God. It is a dangerous thing to replace the wisdom of God with the carnal knowledge of men.

God has established an order for the world. God created man first then Eve. When you violate God's order you rebel against God Himself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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see.. told you... anger, rage and gnashing of teeth....
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#498
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#498
Scribe said:
Read some history of Evangelical Women pastors in the past 100 years. There are not many because it has never been culturally acceptable. The Assemblies of God has a rich history of holiness preaching, conservative, women preachers and pastors.
You seem to be asking about "celebrity pastors" in which case there is Aimee Simple Mcpherson, Kathryn Kulman, and others like them (search famous pentacostal women pastors) They were all known for preaching holiness, and much more so than probably your favorite male pastors of today.
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These ladies do not add any credibility to your position. They did make some money in their "ministries" but they appear more as charlatans than conservative Christians.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#500
#500
notuptome said:
These ladies do not add any credibility to your position. They did make some money in their "ministries" but they appear more as charlatans than conservative Christians.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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That was not my position. @surfer14 said they are probably liberals. These women I mentioned were holiness preachers. They preached holiness including the truth that wives should submit to the authority of their husbands.

You are trying to move the goal post of the conversation between surfer14 and myself but I am not taking the bait. They were not liberals. Beth Moore is not a liberal. Joyce Meyers is not a liberal. No Christian woman preaching or teaching supports the alphabet people and anyone who does has no audience in the Christian world and is unknown to all but their apostate circles.
 
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