At Jesus' Ascension, some of the 11 "DOUBTED Him"!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

RTTippett

New member
Mar 11, 2021
20
12
3
Earth
#41
You are somewhat correct in your timing.

Jesus was crucified on the Feast of Passover, he rose from the dead on the Feast of Firstfruits, and the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Feast of Pentecost 50 days after the Feast of Firstfruits (Lev. 23:16), not Passover.
The Hebrew word Shavuot means Weeks. It is the Festival of seven Weeks after the Passover. It is a God-Commanded festival of memorial, marking when God brought down the Covenant from Mount Sinai. Jesus was executed during an 8-day Passover Festival, as the Paschal Lamb. He rose on a Sabbath at the end of the Passover Festival and was found out of the tomb on Sunday morning. He ascended on the 49th day in the counting of weeks (seven weeks), as Shavuot was about to begin. He ascended on a Sabbath, just as he was raised on a sabbath. His disciples became Apostles as the First Fruits [timed fifty days, beginning at Passover] deemed ripe by God to go into ministry.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#42
The Hebrew word Shavuot means Weeks. It is the Festival of seven Weeks after the Passover. It is a God-Commanded festival of memorial, marking when God brought down the Covenant from Mount Sinai. Jesus was executed during an 8-day Passover Festival, as the Paschal Lamb. He rose on a Sabbath at the end of the Passover Festival and was found out of the tomb on Sunday morning. He ascended on the 49th day in the counting of weeks (seven weeks), as Shavuot was about to begin. He ascended on a Sabbath, just as he was raised on a sabbath. His disciples became Apostles as the First Fruits [timed fifty days, beginning at Passover] deemed ripe by God to go into ministry.
No offense, but I don't know where you're getting your faulty information from.

Firstly, the countdown to Pentecost begins on the day after the Feast of Firstfruits:

Leviticus chapter 23

[10] Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
[11] And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
[12] And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
[13] And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
[14] And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
[15] And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
[16] Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

Secondly, Jesus was not raised from the dead on the sabbath.

Instead, even as we just read (vss. 10-11), the sheaf of the firstfruits was waved "on the morrow AFTER THE SABBATH", and not on the sabbath.

Furthermore, Paul twice referred to Jesus as "the firstfruits" in his first epistle to the Corinthians because Jesus was raised from the dead on the Feast of Firstfruits which, again, occurred on "the morrow after the sabbath", and not on the sabbath.

I Corinthians chapter 15

[20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
[21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Further still, all 4 gospels record that Jesus resurrected the day after the sabbath, so, again, I don't know where you're getting your faulty information from.

"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre." (Matt. 28:1)

"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun." (Mark 16:1-2)

"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them." (Luke 24:1)

"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre." (John 20:1)

Lastly, seeing how Jesus truly rose "on the morrow AFTER THE SABBATH", or on "the first day of the week", or on what we would call Sunday, if we count 50 days forward from there, even as Moses instructed the children of Israel to do in Leviticus 23:16, then we realize that Jesus most definitely did NOT "ascend on a sabbath" as you erroneously claimed, but rather on the second day of the week or on what we would call Monday.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#43
Whoops.

I meant to say, and it's too late to edit it, that the day of Pentecost was on a Monday.

Sorry, got mixed up and typed and posted too soon.

My bad.
 

RTTippett

New member
Mar 11, 2021
20
12
3
Earth
#44
No offense, but I don't know where you're getting your faulty information from.

Firstly, the countdown to Pentecost begins on the day after the Feast of Firstfruits:

Leviticus chapter 23

[10] Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
[11] And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
[12] And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
[13] And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
[14] And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
[15] And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
[16] Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

Secondly, Jesus was not raised from the dead on the sabbath.

Instead, even as we just read (vss. 10-11), the sheaf of the firstfruits was waved "on the morrow AFTER THE SABBATH", and not on the sabbath.

Furthermore, Paul twice referred to Jesus as "the firstfruits" in his first epistle to the Corinthians because Jesus was raised from the dead on the Feast of Firstfruits which, again, occurred on "the morrow after the sabbath", and not on the sabbath.

I Corinthians chapter 15

[20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
[21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Further still, all 4 gospels record that Jesus resurrected the day after the sabbath, so, again, I don't know where you're getting your faulty information from.

"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre." (Matt. 28:1)

"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun." (Mark 16:1-2)

"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them." (Luke 24:1)

"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre." (John 20:1)

Lastly, seeing how Jesus truly rose "on the morrow AFTER THE SABBATH", or on "the first day of the week", or on what we would call Sunday, if we count 50 days forward from there, even as Moses instructed the children of Israel to do in Leviticus 23:16, then we realize that Jesus most definitely did NOT "ascend on a sabbath" as you erroneously claimed, but rather on the second day of the week or on what we would call Monday.
I think what you are calling faulty information is a misunderstanding of the same information you quoted. The First Fruits were the first harvest of the Spring, which were still in need of ripening to be eaten. They were placed in the Temple on 16 Nisan and deemed ripe on the fiftieth day, after a counting of seven weeks (49 days). The First Fruits were then place at the beginning of the Passover festival and ready to eat on Pentecost. That is the truth and it can be researched on the Internet.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#45
I think what you are calling faulty information is a misunderstanding of the same information you quoted. The First Fruits were the first harvest of the Spring, which were still in need of ripening to be eaten. They were placed in the Temple on 16 Nisan and deemed ripe on the fiftieth day, after a counting of seven weeks (49 days). The First Fruits were then place at the beginning of the Passover festival and ready to eat on Pentecost. That is the truth and it can be researched on the Internet.
I just showed you, from Leviticus chapter 23, when the countdown actually began.

Sorry, again, for my hasty response concerning what day Jesus ascended.

I was thinking about the Feast of Pentecost, and I made an honest mistake.

Again, my bad.

:cry:
 

RTTippett

New member
Mar 11, 2021
20
12
3
Earth
#46
I just showed you, from Leviticus chapter 23, when the countdown actually began.

Sorry, again, for my hasty response concerning what day Jesus ascended.

I was thinking about the Feast of Pentecost, and I made an honest mistake.

Again, my bad.

:cry:
Passover is a feast of one day, done twice (Nisan 15 & Nisan 16). The Festival of the Unleavened Bread is the Passover Festival that is the week following Passover. The feast of the First Fruits in one day, during the Festival of the Unleavened Bread. The Feast of the First Fruits is in recognition of fruits and grains gathered gathered early in the spring [put in the Temple at the beginning of the festival], which will be eaten in fifty days (when judged ripe and ready), during Shavuot - the Festival of Weeks. Look at this schedule if you need to. It shows Passover this year on March 29. It shows Unleavened Bread as between March 30 and April 4. It shows the First Fruits on April 3. It shows Shavuot (Weeks) on May 18. Do the math. They actually live by Leviticus.

https://promisestoisrael.org/jewish-culture-2/jewish-holidays/

The Passover (Lev 23:4-8) -- An annual event commemorating the day when God judged Egypt, but He passed over Israel. They were not more righteous or special, but because the blood of the Lamb was spilled on their behalf. Jews who had to remember this annual event would remember this and their special identity.

Feast of Firstfruits (Lev 23:9-14) -- This was for worship, signifying the giving of God the best of their harvest.

Feast of Weeks (Lev 23:15-22) -- Takes places 50 days after the Feast of Firstfruits

Like I said. It is the same information we are both using; but, it is easy to mix things up.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#47
OIC what you mean. The Jews ritually count the days [called Counting the Omer], which begins on the second day of the Passover festival [Nisan 16] and goes for seven weeks [49 days]. That Passover began on a Friday [6:00 PM it technically became the Sabbath then, 15 Nisan], so the 1st day of the Omer was that Sunday, beginning at 6:00 PM on the Sabbath. The following Sunday was when Jesus was found risen, which was the 8th day of the Omer. Jesus met the disciples in the upper room twice on Sunday, once before 6:00 PM (without Thomas there) and once after 6:00 PM (with Thomas there). When he met Thomas it was technically Nisan 23, the 9th day of the Omer count [Monday]. John wrote, "after the day eighth," which says after the eighth day of the Counting of the Omer [John 20:26], when Jesus met Thomas. On Tuesday, the 10th day of the Omer Jesus began his Disciple-to-Apostles Boot Camp, which lasted from Day 10 to Day 49 [40 days[. He ascended on a Sabbath, the 49th day. The Apostles were risen as Jesus reborn on the next day, Pentecost Sunday.
I am not sure what you just did there but If you just said that Jesus ascended on the 49th day and the day of Pentecost was the next day then you must have made a mistake.

3To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up,

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, (not many days hence) they were all with one accord in one place.

If Jesus was seen of them for 40 days after his resurrection then he ascended, and was no longer seen, then it was 10 more days until Pentecost. If they met and started praying on the next day they were there for 8-10 days ( I don't care if the days are exact, 40 might be 40 as a rounded number) but we assume it is probably exact by one or two based on the why they counted days at sundown etc.

Jesus ascended 10 days before Pentecost according to verse 3.

As far as I know this is common knowledge taught by almost all Acts Bible studies since I have been a christian. I don't think it is a controversial interpretation among anyone that I knew about.
 

RTTippett

New member
Mar 11, 2021
20
12
3
Earth
#48
Let's all pray that entrance into heaven requires being filled with the knowledge of Acts Bible Studies and not the ability to listen to God read about the Passover of Exodus being a redo in the last Passover of Jesus. Moses reflects Jesus. The feasts commanded by God reflect those repeated over an eight day period in Jerusalem. Jesus was the sacrificial lamb inspected for four days and found blemish free. The blood of the lamb saved him from death (after three days). Then Jesus spent forty days with his disciples as a reflection of Moses spending forty days on the mountain with God. Forty and forty. No more, no less. The days it took for the Israelites to be led to Mount Sinai was ten. Ten days happened first. Eight of those days are the Passover escape from Egypt, when two nights they spent being protected by God and Moses. Then the sea parted, the Israelites crossed and the Egyptians drown. Then they stopped and found a place that had fruits. Then they went to rest at the base of the mountain, when Moses went up for forty days. Jesus spent forty days with his disciples from the 10th day after the Passover feast as a reflection of when they first followed all the lamb blood things Moses said to do and the first born were spared death. From day 10 to day 49 is forty days. Jesus was buried on Friday and raised on the Sabbath, then found out of his tomb on Sunday. God thinks the Sabbath is an important day. Most likely all the things in Egypt can be realized as also taking place on a Sabbath. God is powerful enough to make all that work. The seven weeks of the Christian Easter season begins on Easter Sunday and goes to Pentecost Sunday. God likes those Sabbaths [aka Saturday]. Jesus went to his last Passover on a Sabbath. He was dead and raised the next Sabbath [day 7]. After six more Sabbaths [6x7=42] it was day 49, with forty of those days spent bringing God to his disciples. On the fiftieth day Moses brought down the Law. On the Fiftieth Day [Pentecost] God brought down His Son via His Holy Spirit and a lot of Jews became true Christians, with the Law written on their hearts.

This is what God has led me to have the utmost faith in. God is my source and all Scripture supports this as truth. Certainly, understanding Scripture requires the assistance of God speaking to one's soul.

Please, let us agree to disagree until the cows come home. I do not wish to argue the truth. You can believe what you want. Please allow me the same right.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
#49
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:

[KJV] Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.​
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

When they all received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they ALL believed then. Is it possible, that some carnal, unregenerated men have the capability to recognize Jesus for Who He is, but that most men require the infilling of the Holy Spirit to have eyes to see?

Why did some Disciples recognize Jesus as the Second Person of the Godhead, and others, after all they had seen, still did not believe until Pentecost? Also, how does this verse relate to the church today? Why was it put into Scripture in the first place?
I think it’s sort of a microcosm of all people some will believe and some won’t.

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#50
Maybe he was talking about Thomas. Maybe there were others with them. The brief summary of the last several verses of Matt 28 must be taken into consideration with the other Gospels that detail various meetings with his disciples after His resurrection. The order in which these meetings occurred are necessary to make them reconcile. A Harmony of the Gospels showing chronology is useful.

I agree about the harmony of the Gospels and their chronology.. After Jesus is Crucified,,,looking at, Luke 24:18-21, John 20 1-3,,John 20:9, Luke 24, 4-5,,Luke 24:11, Mark 16:14, Luke 24:37, John 20:27 or any of the four Gospels does it appear to you as though the disciples,Apostles ect. thought that Jesus was going to be killed or does it seem like they were completely baffled by him being killed?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#52

I agree that he expounded unto them all the Scriptures in Luke 24:27(afterwards) I'm asking about from that point in time back to the Cross,,,(from the Cross up to Luke 24:27) did they understand he would die?
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#53
I agree that he expounded unto them all the Scriptures in Luke 24:27(afterwards) I'm asking about from that point in time back to the Cross,,,(from the Cross up to Luke 24:27) did they understand he would die?
Peter sermon in acts 2 and 3 should tell you what they understood.

According to prophecy, Jesus was to die for the sins of Israel, and thru his blood, the new covenant is now ready to be made with Israel
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#54
I agree that he expounded unto them all the Scriptures in Luke 24:27(afterwards) I'm asking about from that point in time back to the Cross,,,(from the Cross up to Luke 24:27) did they understand he would die?
I don't think they understood much of His purpose, so aside from the first death everyone undergoes? No... :)'

And good morning! :D Did you set your clocks ahead an hour? :unsure::cool:
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#55
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#56

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#57
I don't think they understood much of His purpose, so aside from the first death everyone undergoes? No... :)'

And good morning! :D Did you set your clocks ahead an hour? :unsure::cool:

Good morning,,,and yes I have a cuckoo clock and so I have to wind it every day(fun at first but after 10 or so years of daily winding,,lol)

That's what I think too if I look at the four gospels and look at how they reacted to Jesus being killed they all seem to be caught off guard as if they were not expecting it. The women go to the tomb and they think the gardener moved his body as if they were thinking he was suppose to still in the grave. None of them immediately after the Crucifixion,(next three days) are reacting to his death as if they were expecting him to be killed,buried and then resurrected three days later. Cleopas says in Luke 24:21 they "had trusted, that Jesus was the one to redeem Israel as if he/they no longer thought Jesus was the one. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 24&version=KJV whats happening looking at their reactions seems to be what Jesus quoted from Zechariah https://biblehub.com/matthew/26-31.htm
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#58
If you are asking about the exact time of cruxifixction, they never believe in the cross then, peter even denied knowing Christ
Yep they seem to have thought that he was there to stay and that he was going to be the king/ruler in Israel and the gentile rule would end. They seem to not have had any idea that Jesus would die,be buried, resurrected then return to Heaven nor that he would return in a second coming.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#59
If they didn't understand Jesus would be Crucified and they didn't understand he would be in the grave and then resurrected. If they didn't know he would return from Heaven( or ascend to it yet). If all the Gospels show their reactions after he died as if they didn't understand it at all then if we back up in time to the O.D.(before his death), then why does everyone think they ask him about his "second coming" if they didn't know about it yet? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#60
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:

[KJV] Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.​
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

When they all received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they ALL believed then. Is it possible, that some carnal, unregenerated men have the capability to recognize Jesus for Who He is, but that most men require the infilling of the Holy Spirit to have eyes to see?

Why did some Disciples recognize Jesus as the Second Person of the Godhead, and others, after all they had seen, still did not believe until Pentecost? Also, how does this verse relate to the church today? Why was it put into Scripture in the first place?

Where there is no doubt then faith is not required.