No gentile has ever been under Mosaic law

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ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#21
Scripture tells us that never has there been any forgiveness of sin except through Christ.

Scripture does not tell us that.

Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Psa_85:2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#22
Scripture does not tell us that.

Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Psa_85:2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.
Good ones. We also have . . .

John 20:23 NKJV - 23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the [sins] of any, they are retained."
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#23
Really? The Jews cooked, ate, and hid the bodies of their children. They also sacrificed to Chemosh. The Benjamites raped a Levites concubine ALL NIGHT until she died in the morning. How could anyone be worse than that?
There are also gentiles who are doing those things and worse, so what are you trying to say?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#26
@ewq1938

These should be good. I copied them from my own notes.

Lam 02:20 & 04:10, Lev 26:29, Deut 28:53-57, 2 Kings 06:28,29, Jer 19:09, Eze 05:10.

NIV - "Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you. Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. The most gentle and sensitive woman among you--so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot--will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities."
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,998
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#27
Ok...it's the desperation after a terrible enemy makes life almost unlivable. It's not a normal practice.

@ewq1938

These should be good. I copied them from my own notes.

Lam 02:20 & 04:10, Lev 26:29, Deut 28:53-57, 2 Kings 06:28,29, Jer 19:09, Eze 05:10.

NIV - "Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you. Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. The most gentle and sensitive woman among you--so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot--will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities."
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#28
I didn't try to say anything. I was asking a question.
The context of my point that you replied to was.

God made a covenant with the nation Israel, if they keep the Law, they will be blessed, if they don't keep the Law, they will be cursed.

Gentiles were excluded from any relationship with God. If they wanted to have one, they have to join the nation Israel.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#29
Ok...it's the desperation after a terrible enemy makes life almost unlivable. It's not a normal practice.
Actually, this is a demonstration of God's Almighty Power, for He has just told Israel exactly what would happen, for they were put into a "deep sleep."

The Jews didn't eat and hide the meat of their own children because of a famine. They did that because God caused them to do exactly as He told them they would as he depicted in the set of verses above. And . . . that's what they did.

Jeremiah 19:9 NLT - 9 I will see to it that your enemies lay siege to the city until all the food is gone. Then those trapped inside will eat their own sons and daughters and friends. They will be driven to utter despair.'

Do you see it? God is orchestrating these things so as to prove Himself.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#30
If they wanted to have one, they have to join the nation Israel.
How does Exodus 33:19 come into play (for you)?

Exodus 33:19 NLT - 19 The LORD replied, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will call out my name, Yahweh, before you. For I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,998
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#31
The Jews didn't eat and hide the meat of their own children because of a famine.

That's wrong, you posted that it was due to lack of food that they would do that:

"I will see to it that your enemies lay siege to the city until all the food is gone. Then those trapped inside will eat their own sons and daughters and friends. "
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#32
That's wrong, you posted that it was due to lack of food that they would do that:

"I will see to it that your enemies lay siege to the city until all the food is gone. Then those trapped inside will eat their own sons and daughters and friends. "
lol - Ok.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,750
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#33
Really? The Jews cooked, ate, and hid the bodies of their children. They also sacrificed to Chemosh. The Benjamites raped a Levites concubine ALL NIGHT until she died in the morning. How could anyone be worse than that?
they did more than that. when the body was cut into pieces and sent out to all the tribes, they saw something in her flesh that made them recognize an evil that had not been seen in all of Israel since they came out of Egypt had taken place in Gibeah ((Judges 19:30)).

they almost completely destroyed the entire tribe of Benjamin because of something a lot more wicked than rape. something you could readily see just by looking at any part of her body. something that also happened in Sodom & possibly beginning to happen Jericho. rape had been going on ((why are their laws concerning it, Deut. 22)); this evil had not been seen. can you tell someone has been raped just by looking at part of their arm? but they saw maybe just a foot and immediately knew something, and immediately knew that the entire town and everyone in it had to be utterly annihilated
 

Tararose

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
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#34
Actually, this is a demonstration of God's Almighty Power, for He has just told Israel exactly what would happen, for they were put into a "deep sleep."

The Jews didn't eat and hide the meat of their own children because of a famine. They did that because God caused them to do exactly as He told them they would as he depicted in the set of verses above. And . . . that's what they did.

Jeremiah 19:9 NLT - 9 I will see to it that your enemies lay siege to the city until all the food is gone. Then those trapped inside will eat their own sons and daughters and friends. They will be driven to utter despair.'

Do you see it? God is orchestrating these things so as to prove Himself.
James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#35
How does Exodus 33:19 come into play (for you)?

Exodus 33:19 NLT - 19 The LORD replied, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will call out my name, Yahweh, before you. For I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.
That does not go against what I stated. It was based on the covenant made with Abraham in Genesis 12:3.

In the OT, if gentiles want to be blessed by God, they have to go thru Israel. (Ephesians 2:11-12)

You can view a counter example in Deut 23

3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever:

4 Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#36
Scripture does not tell us that.

Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Psa_85:2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.
These are the shadow of Christ.

Hebrews 9: 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”[e] 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Lev. 17:11 .......I have given it (the blood) to you on the altar for the atonement of your soul.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#37
Gentiles were in a far worse state in the OT, as Ephesians 2:11-12 stated.
The only reason they were in a "far worse state" is because they were out of covenant with God, so if we are out of covenant today we are in the same state they were in. God is the same... never changed.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#38
No gentiles has ever been under Mosaic law. Neither has any NT believer ever been under the Covenant made at Sinai.

Ex 11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that "the LORD doth put a difference between the Nations and Israel".
(NOTE: The LORD put a difference between all (69) other Nations & Israel/His chosen people) BTW: The same LORD later refers to the gentile/Canaanite woman as a dog. Gentiles were viewed as unclean dogs, bastards, outside of covenant seals)

Ex 19:
3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(NOTE: God tells Moses, say to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel! Gentiles had/have NO PART in this law covenant)

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
(MY NOTE: Law of Moses was given to: The house of Jacob/children of Israel (reread vs 3)

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: When Moses gives the law to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel: They ALL AGREED, to the words the Lord had spoken)

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(MY NOTE: Circumcision: A blood covenant made with hands & required under Mosaic law)

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(MY NOTE: Gentiles referred to as the Uncircumcision (vs 11) were without God, having no covenant promises & a hopeless future)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(MY NOTE: But, NOW! = Post death & resurrection/new Melchizedek priesthood covenant. Believing gentiles are no longer bastards outside of covenant seals)

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves
(MY PARSING NOTE: Gentiles were never under/had not the Mosaic law)

Council at Jerusalem
Acts 15:
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
(MY NOTE: Jews try to place gentiles under Mosaic law)

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
(NOTE: These Christ rejecting Pharisees claimed gentile believers needed to be circumcised & commanded to keep the law of Moses).

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
(NOTE: Peter revisits his trip to Cornelius house (Acts 10). And how by word of mouth gentiles believed on Christ's sin payment & resurrection. Were gentiles received Christ's eternal salvation sealing baptism with His indwelling Holy Spirit)

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(NOTE: These gentiles heard about Christ's sin payment & resurrection. They believed: NO repentance, water baptism, circumcision, they brought no sin sacrifice to the Temple, No Mosaic law keeping etc. Thru faith in Christ's sin payment & resurrection & faith alone. Christ eternally sealed them with His indwelling Holy Spirit)

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(NOTE: Gentiles hearts were Purified by water? NO! Purified by the Holy Spirit via Faith)

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(NOTE: Peter say's neither our forefathers, nor us, could bear the yoke, of keeping the law of Moses with fidelity)

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
(NOTE: Peter proclaims God has showed us that, ALL, are saved by grace thru faith, us/Jews & gentiles as well)

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
(NOTE: The apostles send letters to all the gentile believing churches in Antioch, Syria & Cilicia.)

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
(NOTE: The letters written & sent by Christ chosen apostles. Proclaim that gentiles, are not, nor were they ever, required to be circumcised or keep Mosaic law. Quoting: WE gave NO such commandment! )

In short:
Exodus; only Israel agrees & enters into the Mosaic law covenant on Mt Sinai.

(2) Posted Eph, Rom & Acts scripture also state gentiles were never under the Mosaic law covenant.
What about the gentiles through out the old testament such as Ruth, and Uriah the Bite, and some other gentiles who helped Israel?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#39
The only reason they were in a "far worse state" is because they were out of covenant with God, so if we are out of covenant today we are in the same state they were in. God is the same... never changed.
How do you think a Christian can be "out of covenant" today?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#40
That is COMPLETELY FALSE. Gentiles within the mixed multitude which came out of Egypt were under the Law. And many Gentiles who joined Israel likewise throughout the history of Israel. There were also proselytes who were actually Gentile converts to Judaism. They chose to put themselves under the Mosaic Law.
We disagree:
1st, The day ALL agreed to the Lords words, a Nation was born = 100% Israeli.

2ndly, To become a proselyte (convert = no longer a gentile) one had to:

1) Make a vow to adhere to Mosaic laws.
2) Get circumcised
3) Bring a sin offering/sacrifice to the Temple
4) The final action required: Undergo full/immersion Mikveh: a ritual act of purification, symbolizing a radical change of heart, a total commitment. At this point you're now clean & under Mosaic law. No longer an unclean, bastard, outside of covenant seals.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/why-immerse-in-the-mikveh/

https://www.bing.com/search?q=proselyte&form=IPRV10