Who is the 12th apostle in Rev 21:14?
- Thread starter FreeGrace2
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No need for the quote marks. Matt 28:16-20 and Mark 16:14,15 also do. And Acts 9:15 speaks clearly for itself.
The evidence is clear.
What some here claim hasn't been shown from Scripture. They are long on claims, but very short on evidence.
v.1 here speaks of the Diaspora, when the Jews were scattered. But recall that the apostles did go to areas of evangelization. Consider the city in Samaria when the people believed and were baptized. Peter and John went there and ministered.
So, v.1 doesn't negate anything I've said. The 3 passages that clearly present the GC were only to the 11, those that Jesus had been teaching during His public ministry. That isn't debatable. And on the road to Damascus Paul was given the GC as well, and then received revelation (Eph 3:3) in the desert for about the same amount of time the 11 had.
The evidence is clear.
What some here claim hasn't been shown from Scripture. They are long on claims, but very short on evidence.
v.1 here speaks of the Diaspora, when the Jews were scattered. But recall that the apostles did go to areas of evangelization. Consider the city in Samaria when the people believed and were baptized. Peter and John went there and ministered.
So, v.1 doesn't negate anything I've said. The 3 passages that clearly present the GC were only to the 11, those that Jesus had been teaching during His public ministry. That isn't debatable. And on the road to Damascus Paul was given the GC as well, and then received revelation (Eph 3:3) in the desert for about the same amount of time the 11 had.
Well, that's interesting. You need help to stabilize your brain then.
Why wouldn't he?
It's kinda hard to take one seriously who admits that their brain is loose and may fall out of their head. Just saying.
So, whatever you have never heard is just "nonsense" huh. Well, maybe you've been under some rather uneducated teachers.
Just read the Scripture. It's clear enough. Matt 28:16-20, Mark 16:14,15, Acts 1:1,2
Why wouldn't he?
It's kinda hard to take one seriously who admits that their brain is loose and may fall out of their head. Just saying.
So, whatever you have never heard is just "nonsense" huh. Well, maybe you've been under some rather uneducated teachers.
Just read the Scripture. It's clear enough. Matt 28:16-20, Mark 16:14,15, Acts 1:1,2
You make a great point. In Acts 1:8, Jesus said: But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
It's clear that they were to start in Jerusalem, which they did.
Of course. And Acts 8 demonstrates this clearly.
Thanks.
It's clear that they were to start in Jerusalem, which they did.
Of course. And Acts 8 demonstrates this clearly.
Thanks.
Yes and yes.
And this was fulfilled by the 11 and Paul.
This is the passage that applies to all believers. It is those with the spiritual gifts of teaching, pastoring and evangelizing who are to "equip the saints" (that's all believers) "for the work of ministry".
The GC was specifically given to those specifically trained to make disciples and teach them.
Do you believe that all believers are so trained? Certainly not.
But all believers are to be taught what Jesus taught the apostles.
Instead of the GC being the "marching orders" for all believers, we have Col 4:6 and 1 Peter 3:15 as the "marching orders" for all believers.
And this was fulfilled by the 11 and Paul.
This is the passage that applies to all believers. It is those with the spiritual gifts of teaching, pastoring and evangelizing who are to "equip the saints" (that's all believers) "for the work of ministry".
The GC was specifically given to those specifically trained to make disciples and teach them.
Do you believe that all believers are so trained? Certainly not.
But all believers are to be taught what Jesus taught the apostles.
Instead of the GC being the "marching orders" for all believers, we have Col 4:6 and 1 Peter 3:15 as the "marching orders" for all believers.
FreeGrace2 said:
And Paul. Acts 9:15 is what Jesus told Ananias about Paul, and Paul's own testimony shows He was given the GC personally by Christ. He spend 3 years in the desert, receiving revelation directly from the Lord. Just about the same time span as the Lord spent with the 12.
Please read what I posted. It is there in black and white.
What is your opinion about what Paul was doing?
And Paul. Acts 9:15 is what Jesus told Ananias about Paul, and Paul's own testimony shows He was given the GC personally by Christ. He spend 3 years in the desert, receiving revelation directly from the Lord. Just about the same time span as the Lord spent with the 12.
Please read what I posted. It is there in black and white.
What is your opinion about what Paul was doing?
Failure. There is NO evidence of that. If that were true, he would have been included in Matt 28:16-20 and Mark 16:14,15.
You have no evidence for Matthias or anyone else receiving the GC personally. Only the 11 and Paul did. As I've proven.
But really, this isn't essential doctrine. Don't get yourself all twisted up over this.
You have no evidence for Matthias or anyone else receiving the GC personally. Only the 11 and Paul did. As I've proven.
But really, this isn't essential doctrine. Don't get yourself all twisted up over this.
L
And, as usual, you neglect Luke's gospel account and what Peter said himself in Acts chapter 1.
Your stubborn refusal to accept that the truth is simply that. It doesn't change reality one bit.
I can assure you that I'm not twisted about anything.
The only thing here that is truly twisted is your theology.
Your stubborn refusal to accept that the truth is simply that. It doesn't change reality one bit.
I can assure you that I'm not twisted about anything.
The only thing here that is truly twisted is your theology.
-
1
- Show all
This is true Jesus instructed the apostles first to take the gospel to people starting in Jerusalem and spreading out from there.. When we share the gospel with others we in effect are hoping to make disciples of Christ. Therefore a small part in the spreading of the gospel to the lost.
The Great commission is a term used to describe what is taught in the bible about Jesus' command. We are all called to share our faith, and to make new disciples in Christ. This is done in two ways. In how we live and sharing our faith.
You don't need to be trained to share the gospel. But also, we do have trained people to help equip us to play our small part in spreading the faith.
--And he said to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. Luke 10:2
And what did Peter say that proves your theory?
I will stubbornly refuse any theory or opinion that isn't backed up with Scripture.
I've given clear Scripture that totally supports the FACT that Jesus personally gave the GC to only the 11 plus Paul.
Truth isn't ever changed.
You seem rather "exercised" over all this.
The 12th name on the foundation of the NJ in Rev 21 can hardly be called a theology.
I'm just noting what the Bible has said. It's so obvious that Paul's name will be there with the 11.
But don't worry about it.
I will stubbornly refuse any theory or opinion that isn't backed up with Scripture.
I've given clear Scripture that totally supports the FACT that Jesus personally gave the GC to only the 11 plus Paul.
Truth isn't ever changed.
You seem rather "exercised" over all this.
The 12th name on the foundation of the NJ in Rev 21 can hardly be called a theology.
I'm just noting what the Bible has said. It's so obvious that Paul's name will be there with the 11.
But don't worry about it.
What believers are NOT commanded to do, which is part of the GC, is to teach them what Jesus taught His disciples/apostles.
The notion of one disciple discipling another disciple isn't biblical. Only those with the teaching gifts are equipped for that.
Eph 4.
However, the GC refers to what Jesus commissioned His trained apostles to do.
Believers are not commissioned to do what the apostles were commissioned to do.
Not exactly. Believers need to understand what exactly saving faith is. While many do trust in Christ for salvation, there's a whole lot of erroneous teaching out there that confuses believers in how to present the Gospel.
Yes, and that's the point. Eph 4
The notion of one disciple discipling another disciple isn't biblical. Only those with the teaching gifts are equipped for that.
Eph 4.
However, the GC refers to what Jesus commissioned His trained apostles to do.
Believers are not commissioned to do what the apostles were commissioned to do.
Not exactly. Believers need to understand what exactly saving faith is. While many do trust in Christ for salvation, there's a whole lot of erroneous teaching out there that confuses believers in how to present the Gospel.
Yes, and that's the point. Eph 4
I haven't read all of the posts, but I believe it to be Matthias. Matthias was a witness of the Lord's resurrection. He was appointed by the Lord as the replacement for Judas. The new Jerusalem and the 12 foundations is pointing to the Jewish Apostles. Paul was also a chosen Apostle but to the Gentiles.
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Just a thought...
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Just a thought...
L
Just more error on your part as anyone who is truly familiar with the New Testament ought to know.
In other words, "what else he (Paul) did" IS clearly said, contrary to your most recent erroneous claim.
For example, here is what Paul said in Galatians:
"But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; IMMMEDIATELY I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; BUT I WENT INTO ARABIA, AND RETURNED AGAIN UNTO DAMASCUS. Then after three years I went to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days." (Gal. 1:15-18)
Paul's time in "Arabia" was immediately after his conversion.
Does the Bible explain this?
It most certainly does.
In fact, Paul explained it himself, when he said:
"IN DAMASCUS the governor UNDER ARETAS THE KING kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrision, desirous to apprehend me: And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands." (II Cor. 11:32-33)
Although we normally view Damascus as a Syrian city, at this point in history, it was actually under the rule of King Aretas, THE KING OF ARABIA.
http://classic.net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Aretas
Greek
Strongs #702: Aretav Aretas
Aretes
1) An Arabian king
He made war in 36 A.D. on his son-in-law Herod Antipas for having divorced his daughter; and with such success as completely to destroy his army. In consequence of this, Vitellius, governor of Syria, being ordered by Tiberius to march an army against Aretes, prepared for war. But Tiberius meantime having died, (Mar. 16, 37), he recalled his troops from march, dismissed them to winter quarters, and departed for Rome. After his departure Aretas held sway over the region of Damascus (how acquired we do not know), and placed an ethnarch over the city, who tried to capture Paul.
With such being the case, Paul never had to leave Syria and travel to Arabia (as many teach) as that portion of Syria was presently under Arabian rule.
With this in mind, let's examine Luke's account of what transpired immediately following Paul's conversion and see if it doesn't perfectly match up with what Paul said in Galatians 1:17-18.
"And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: BUT THEY LED HIM BY THE HAND, AND BROUGHT HIM INTO DAMASCUS. And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. And there was a certain disciple AT DAMASCUS, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And HERE he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. THEN WAS SAUL CERTAIN DAYS WITH THE DISCIPLES WHICH WERE AT DAMASCUS. AND STRAIGHTWAY HE PREACHED CHRIST IN THE SYNAGOGUES, that he is the Son of God. But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? But Saul increased the more in strength, AND CONFOUNDED THE JEWS WHICH DWELT AT DAMASCUS, proving that this is very Christ. AND AFTER THAT MANY DAYS WERE FULFILLED, the Jews took counsel to kill him: But their lying in wait was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. THEN THE DISCIPLES TOOK HIM BY NIGHT, AND LET HIM DOWN BY THE WALL IN A BASKET." (Acts 9:8-25)
Okay, what do we have so far?
1. Saul/Paul IMMEDIATELY preached AT DAMASCUS, which was then UNDER THE RULE OF THE KING OF ARABIA.
2. Saul/Paul preached AT DAMASCUS for MANY DAYS ("after that many days were fulfilled").
3. The Jews sought to kill Saul/Paul and he had to be let down by a wall in a basket.
Again, there's no need for some trip into "Arabia" (Paul was already there) where Paul allegedly spent a few years preparing for his ministry, as some teach.
The first people to whom Paul preached, according to his own testimony, were the people at Damascus, and Paul did so “straightway” (Acts 9:20) or immediately after his conversion.
We read:
"Whereupon AS I WENT TO DAMASCUS with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I WAS NOT DISOBEDIENT UNTO THE HEAVENLY VISION, BUT SHEWED FIRST UNTO THEM OF DAMASCUS, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." (Acts 26:12-20)
Paul was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but he shewed FIRST UNTO THEM OF DAMASCUS that they should repent and do works meet for repentance.
Again, Paul was preaching at Damascus, which was then under the rule of the Arabian King, Aretas, FOR MANY DAYS (Acts 9:23).
These "many days" are apparently the three years of which he spoke in Galatians.
Going back there, we read:
"Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. THEN AFTER THREE YEARS I WENT UP TO JERUSALEM TO SEE PETER, AND ABODE WITH HIM FIFTEEN DAYS." (Gal. 1:17-18)
Picking up where I previously left off in Luke's account in Acts, we read:
"And AFTER THAT MANY DAYS WERE FULFILLED, the Jews sought counsel to kill him. But their laying in wait was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket. AND WHEN SAUL WAS COME TO JERUSALEM, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. BUT BARNABAS TOOK HIM, AND BROUGHT HIM TO THE APOSTLES, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, AND HOW HE HAD PREACHED BOLDLY AT DAMASCUS in the name of Jesus. AND HE WAS WITH THEM COMING IN AND GOING OUT AT JERUSALEM." (Acts 9:23-28)
It matches perfectly:
Preaching AT DAMASCUS, which was then under ARABIAN RULE for "many days" or three years and then GOING TO JERUSALEM.
In other words, "what else he (Paul) did" IS clearly said, contrary to your most recent erroneous claim.
For example, here is what Paul said in Galatians:
"But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; IMMMEDIATELY I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; BUT I WENT INTO ARABIA, AND RETURNED AGAIN UNTO DAMASCUS. Then after three years I went to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days." (Gal. 1:15-18)
Paul's time in "Arabia" was immediately after his conversion.
Does the Bible explain this?
It most certainly does.
In fact, Paul explained it himself, when he said:
"IN DAMASCUS the governor UNDER ARETAS THE KING kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrision, desirous to apprehend me: And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands." (II Cor. 11:32-33)
Although we normally view Damascus as a Syrian city, at this point in history, it was actually under the rule of King Aretas, THE KING OF ARABIA.
http://classic.net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Aretas
Greek
Strongs #702: Aretav Aretas
Aretes
1) An Arabian king
He made war in 36 A.D. on his son-in-law Herod Antipas for having divorced his daughter; and with such success as completely to destroy his army. In consequence of this, Vitellius, governor of Syria, being ordered by Tiberius to march an army against Aretes, prepared for war. But Tiberius meantime having died, (Mar. 16, 37), he recalled his troops from march, dismissed them to winter quarters, and departed for Rome. After his departure Aretas held sway over the region of Damascus (how acquired we do not know), and placed an ethnarch over the city, who tried to capture Paul.
With such being the case, Paul never had to leave Syria and travel to Arabia (as many teach) as that portion of Syria was presently under Arabian rule.
With this in mind, let's examine Luke's account of what transpired immediately following Paul's conversion and see if it doesn't perfectly match up with what Paul said in Galatians 1:17-18.
"And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: BUT THEY LED HIM BY THE HAND, AND BROUGHT HIM INTO DAMASCUS. And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. And there was a certain disciple AT DAMASCUS, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And HERE he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. THEN WAS SAUL CERTAIN DAYS WITH THE DISCIPLES WHICH WERE AT DAMASCUS. AND STRAIGHTWAY HE PREACHED CHRIST IN THE SYNAGOGUES, that he is the Son of God. But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? But Saul increased the more in strength, AND CONFOUNDED THE JEWS WHICH DWELT AT DAMASCUS, proving that this is very Christ. AND AFTER THAT MANY DAYS WERE FULFILLED, the Jews took counsel to kill him: But their lying in wait was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. THEN THE DISCIPLES TOOK HIM BY NIGHT, AND LET HIM DOWN BY THE WALL IN A BASKET." (Acts 9:8-25)
Okay, what do we have so far?
1. Saul/Paul IMMEDIATELY preached AT DAMASCUS, which was then UNDER THE RULE OF THE KING OF ARABIA.
2. Saul/Paul preached AT DAMASCUS for MANY DAYS ("after that many days were fulfilled").
3. The Jews sought to kill Saul/Paul and he had to be let down by a wall in a basket.
Again, there's no need for some trip into "Arabia" (Paul was already there) where Paul allegedly spent a few years preparing for his ministry, as some teach.
The first people to whom Paul preached, according to his own testimony, were the people at Damascus, and Paul did so “straightway” (Acts 9:20) or immediately after his conversion.
We read:
"Whereupon AS I WENT TO DAMASCUS with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I WAS NOT DISOBEDIENT UNTO THE HEAVENLY VISION, BUT SHEWED FIRST UNTO THEM OF DAMASCUS, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." (Acts 26:12-20)
Paul was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but he shewed FIRST UNTO THEM OF DAMASCUS that they should repent and do works meet for repentance.
Again, Paul was preaching at Damascus, which was then under the rule of the Arabian King, Aretas, FOR MANY DAYS (Acts 9:23).
These "many days" are apparently the three years of which he spoke in Galatians.
Going back there, we read:
"Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. THEN AFTER THREE YEARS I WENT UP TO JERUSALEM TO SEE PETER, AND ABODE WITH HIM FIFTEEN DAYS." (Gal. 1:17-18)
Picking up where I previously left off in Luke's account in Acts, we read:
"And AFTER THAT MANY DAYS WERE FULFILLED, the Jews sought counsel to kill him. But their laying in wait was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket. AND WHEN SAUL WAS COME TO JERUSALEM, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. BUT BARNABAS TOOK HIM, AND BROUGHT HIM TO THE APOSTLES, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, AND HOW HE HAD PREACHED BOLDLY AT DAMASCUS in the name of Jesus. AND HE WAS WITH THEM COMING IN AND GOING OUT AT JERUSALEM." (Acts 9:23-28)
It matches perfectly:
Preaching AT DAMASCUS, which was then under ARABIAN RULE for "many days" or three years and then GOING TO JERUSALEM.
L
In regard to Paul's direct revelation from the Lord, here is his own testimony:
“It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.” (II Cor. 12:1-7)
Apparently, Paul received his revelations from the Lord in “the third heaven” or “paradise”.
“It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.” (II Cor. 12:1-7)
Apparently, Paul received his revelations from the Lord in “the third heaven” or “paradise”.
I have to disagree with this. Paul went into Arabia which contains Mt. Sinai. As Moses received the law for God's physical people Israel in the OT, Paul would receive the NT instructions for God's spiritual people the body of Christ. Scripture plainly states that after going to Arabia he returned again to Damascus as you had posted. These are clearly two separate places that Paul went.
BUT I WENT INTO ARABIA, AND RETURNED AGAIN UNTO DAMASCUS
BUT I WENT INTO ARABIA, AND RETURNED AGAIN UNTO DAMASCUS
L
No, as I just properly showed, Damascus was then under ARABIAN rule, and after Paul preached there "IMMEDIATELY" for "many days" or three years, he went to Jerusalem.
Anyhow, what I've posted is there for anybody to read and research on their own.
It's not my job to browbeat anybody into submission, so I'll leave it at that.
Anyhow, what I've posted is there for anybody to read and research on their own.
It's not my job to browbeat anybody into submission, so I'll leave it at that.
-
2
- Show all