Scripture that supports soulless humans before Adam

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#41
And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

A last Adam fixes the mess of the first Adam.
I thought you were referring to Rom 5 ?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#42
  • “I was beside Him (God) as a master worker… I rejoiced over His habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men”
  • Proverbs 8.30,31

I wonder if “sons of men” could mean there were humans without souls before Adam. Did Jesus want to give these humans souls?

  • “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness”
  • Genesis 1.26

Is there something preventing man from existing first before They made them in Their image? Could, in Their image, mean to have a soul?

Would this destroy the evolution excuse?
how can a living soul be soul less ?

a soul isn’t something Man had , it is what man is

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A soul is a complete living man.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#43
And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

A last Adam fixes the mess of the first Adam.
1There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42¶So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46¶Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50¶Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#44
how can a living soul be soul less ?

a soul isn’t something Man had , it is what man is

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A soul is a complete living man.
Yep, so how do know that happened in the original creation week?
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#46
1There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42¶So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46¶Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50¶Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
So how does this say original sin isn't a thing?

You can't squirm your way out of this:

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#47
So how does this say original sin isn't a thing?

You can't squirm your way out of this:

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.
Babies die . Not because they have sinned like Adams sin . its a consequence of the fall . That and thorns and thistles..But babies are not born with the guilt of Adam..We fall under condemnation due to sinning . People go to hell due to not receiving Jesus.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#48
Do you need it to say "original sin" for you to understand that it was the first sin of man (that had a soul)?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#49
So how does this say original sin isn't a thing?

You can't squirm your way out of this:

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.
Is this what you mean ?

From a calvinist website Got Questions.
The Calvinistic doctrine of original sin states that Adam’s sin has resulted not only in our having a sin nature, but also in our incurring guilt before God for which we deserve punishment. Being conceived with original sin upon us (Psalm 51:5) results in our inheriting a sin nature so wicked that Jeremiah 17:9 describes the human heart as “deceitful above all things and beyond cure.” Not only was Adam found guilty because he sinned, but his sin was imputed to us, making us guilty and deserving of his punishment (death) as well (Romans 5:12, 19). There are two views as to why Adam’s sin should be imputed to us. The first view states that the human race was within Adam in seed form; thus, when Adam sinned, we sinned in him. This is similar to the biblical teaching that Levi (a descendant of Abraham) paid tithes to Melchizedek in Abraham (Genesis 14:20; Hebrews 7:4–9), even though Levi was not born until hundreds of years later. The other main view is that Adam served as our representative, and so, when he sinned, we were found guilty as well.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#50
Is this what you mean ?

From a calvinist website Got Questions.
The Calvinistic doctrine of original sin states that Adam’s sin has resulted not only in our having a sin nature, but also in our incurring guilt before God for which we deserve punishment. Being conceived with original sin upon us (Psalm 51:5) results in our inheriting a sin nature so wicked that Jeremiah 17:9 describes the human heart as “deceitful above all things and beyond cure.” Not only was Adam found guilty because he sinned, but his sin was imputed to us, making us guilty and deserving of his punishment (death) as well (Romans 5:12, 19). There are two views as to why Adam’s sin should be imputed to us. The first view states that the human race was within Adam in seed form; thus, when Adam sinned, we sinned in him. This is similar to the biblical teaching that Levi (a descendant of Abraham) paid tithes to Melchizedek in Abraham (Genesis 14:20; Hebrews 7:4–9), even though Levi was not born until hundreds of years later. The other main view is that Adam served as our representative, and so, when he sinned, we were found guilty as well.
You act like this place isn't fallen. Consider what it means that we can sin if we choose to.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#51
You act like this place isn't fallen. Consider what it means that we can sin if we choose to.
Nonsense .
Rom 8
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth and in pain together until now.

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#52
  • “I was beside Him (God) as a master worker… I rejoiced over His habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men”

  • Proverbs 8.30,31
you probably want to start with an accurate translation of this verse instead of whatever weird one you picked.


Then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;
rejoicing in the habitable part of His earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
(Proverbs 8:30-31 kjv)
Then I am near Him, a workman, And I am a delight -- day by day. Rejoicing before Him at all times,
rejoicing in the habitable part of His earth, And my delights [are] with the sons of men.
(Proverbs 8:30-31 ylt)
and the next thing you'll want to do is figure out how this is testifying of Christ, because all scripture is related to Him and not truly understood until the connection to Him is understood.

it's not about us. it's about Him.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#53
Nonsense .
Rom 8
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth and in pain together until now.

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Um, yeah, our eyes became open to this fallen reality. We can tell the difference between good and evil now.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#56
Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.

How can there be people that had not sinned to be influenced by original sin?
that's not what this means.

Adam sinned without being deceived. he was fully aware of what he was doing and fully aware of the fact it was sin. he was in no way confused or misled by either Satan or his wife.

others -- for example Woman -- sin in deception, in ignorance, and/or in confusion.

that's what's meant by sinning after the likeness of Adam's transgression vs. not after the likeness of Adam's transgression.

it has nothing to do with being descended or not being descended from Adam, inheriting his nature or his sin, or not.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#57
that's not what this means.

Adam sinned without being deceived. he was fully aware of what he was doing and fully aware of the fact it was sin. he was in no way confused or misled by either Satan or his wife.

others -- for example Woman -- sin in deception, in ignorance, and/or in confusion.

that's what's meant by sinning after the likeness of Adam's transgression vs. not after the likeness of Adam's transgression.

it has nothing to do with being descended or not being descended from Adam, inheriting his nature or his sin, or not.
Wait, you don't understand original sin?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#58
Wait, you don't understand original sin?
do you understand that Adam wasn't deceived, but Woman was? 1 Timothy 2:14
and that sinning without comprehending what you are doing is fundamentally different that having full understanding you're doing evil, and doing it anyway?
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#59
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:4
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#60
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:4
having corrupted natures isn't relevant to whether a person sins in ignorance or in full comprehension of the wickedness they are engaging in.

for example a man doesn't know God, and blasphemes saying God doesn't know something.
that is sin, but it is different than a man who knows God, and knows that nothing is hidden from Him, yet acts like it is.

a person may lie because they don't know the truth, and another person may tell the same lie even though they know it is false. Adam was not deceived. 1 Timothy 2:14. Adam's eating of the tree is fundamentally different than Woman's eating of it.