The diciples prayer .

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shittim

shittim

Senior Member
#141
Dec 16, 2016
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#141
Ephesians on is pretty much where we are in terms of His ever proceeding plan to return mankind and His creation to right relationship.
Some of the Bible is allegory, some is history, some is guidance, all of which require Holy Spirit who guides us in all truth, if we allow.
blessings
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#142
Jan 10, 2019
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#142
Guojing said:
Oh, that was what you meant by "in the minds", you meant in a negative way.

I said the same when I mentioned Luke 1 and Zacharias "So yes, all enemies, human or spiritual. Remember at that time, Rome was their conqueror and Pompey the Great actually walked into their Holy of Holies. "

https://christianchat.com/threads/the-diciples-prayer.197730/post-4503307

we are saying the same things then.
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Yes Guojing, but believers should come to understand that in Christ, God's people cannot be conquered. In him, we are conquerors.

"Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done", is not only a request. It's a statement of fact, praising Gods greatness.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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#143
Jan 10, 2019
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#143
Blik said:
What the Jews think, what I think, what you think, has absolutely nothing to do with the truth of God. How you relate to God has great importance to you, and it is important that what we say about God reflects the truth. God is vitally concerned with forgiving you of your sins so you may live with Him forever, all your involvement with gentiles/Jews and such are besides the point. If they don't help with what God is moist concerned with they are just getting in the way of the truth of the Lord.
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I hear what you're saying Blik, but what the people who rejected Jesus thought does concern the truth of God, because he foretold it.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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#144
Jan 10, 2019
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#144
throughfaith said:
We read in other places in the bible where a question is asked on how to do something. Say in Ruth or another book in the Ot an instruction or literally how to furnish the tabernacle or something . We immediately recognise the audience and context . Why is it when it comes to the four gospels we Apply literally everything Jesus says to ourselves?
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Well, in speaking of the tabernacle, the veil separating the holy place from the holiest place is said to be Christs flesh. He's the lamb and also the High Priest, One with the Holy Spirit. Heb.9 and 10. So those OT figures apply to all believers.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#145
Aug 4, 2020
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#145
Journeyman said:
Well, in speaking of the tabernacle, the veil separating the holy place from the holiest place is said to be Christs flesh. He's the lamb and also the High Priest, One with the Holy Spirit. Heb.9 and 10. So those OT figures apply to all believers.
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My point was are you going to follow the instructions to build the tabernacle? If not, why not ? We know what it represents now . Now we look back with a complete bible .
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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#146
Jan 10, 2019
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#146
throughfaith said:
My point was are you going to follow the instructions to build the tabernacle? If not, why not ? We know what it represents now . Now we look back with a complete bible .
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Of course Im not going to build an OT tabernacle or temple. Jesus doesn't want the Jews to do that either.

What part of the prayer Jesus taught his disciples doesn't apply to any believer?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#147
Dec 6, 2016
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#147
throughfaith said:
My point on this thread is show how Jesus words get taken from their context and how we no longer understand what he said . This isn't the only verse . Many things Jesus is saying for what ever reason are taught as if Jesus is speaking to us . We don't do this with things said in Leviticus for example . Why when we get to the four Gospels we don't care who Jesus is speaking to ,we automatically take what he is saying and apply it to us ?
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My point in my posts is that all scripture is truth, eternal truth that applies to all time. A knowledgeable study of the old testament and the new testament, together, shows that no scripture disagrees with any other scripture..

People opposed to this quote the commandments that no longer apply. Yet a closer look at these tells us that the principle behind these commandments are eternal truths. We are still required to strip away the fleshly thoughts and belong to the Lord, even if we don't cut flesh to represent this---- as an example.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#148
Aug 4, 2020
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#148
Journeyman said:
Of course Im not going to build an OT tabernacle or temple. Jesus doesn't want the Jews to do that either.

What part of the prayer Jesus taught his disciples doesn't apply to any believer?
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You can' apply ' a lot of things . Its the bible not a book on cookery .As believers we are associated with biblical things.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#149
Aug 4, 2020
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#149
Blik said:
My point in my posts is that all scripture is truth, eternal truth that applies to all time. A knowledgeable study of the old testament and the new testament, together, shows that no scripture disagrees with any other scripture..

People opposed to this quote the commandments that no longer apply. Yet a closer look at these tells us that the principle behind these commandments are eternal truths. We are still required to strip away the fleshly thoughts and belong to the Lord, even if we don't cut flesh to represent this---- as an example.
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We have to spot what's different.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#151
Aug 4, 2020
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#151
Blik said:
If we want to discover God in scripture, we have to spot what is the same. Spotting the differences is superficial.
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Animal sacrifices? different or same today ? Hardly a superficial thing .
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#152
Dec 6, 2016
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#152
throughfaith said:
Animal sacrifices? different or same today ? Hardly a superficial thing .
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Why ever would you not study the animal sacrifices that were ordered by the Lord? Do you think it was demons who ordered them? And why not learn why and how the Lord ordered them, why not learn of what is the same between the blood of Christ and those orders? What does scripture mean by the "shadow of Christ"? It is part of scripture. If you are so fleshly that you only think of feeding God with blood, read Isaiah 1, and see what the Lord thinks of that.
 
T

throughfaith

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#153
Aug 4, 2020
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#153
Blik said:
Why ever would you not study the animal sacrifices that were ordered by the Lord? Do you think it was demons who ordered them? And why not learn why and how the Lord ordered them, why not learn of what is the same between the blood of Christ and those orders? What does scripture mean by the "shadow of Christ"? It is part of scripture. If you are so fleshly that you only think of feeding God with blood, read Isaiah 1, and see what the Lord thinks of that.
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Yeah did i say that we shouldn't study them ?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#154
Aug 4, 2020
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#154
Blik said:
Why ever would you not study the animal sacrifices that were ordered by the Lord? Do you think it was demons who ordered them? And why not learn why and how the Lord ordered them, why not learn of what is the same between the blood of Christ and those orders? What does scripture mean by the "shadow of Christ"? It is part of scripture. If you are so fleshly that you only think of feeding God with blood, read Isaiah 1, and see what the Lord thinks of that.
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Another difference would be the cross . Do you acknowledge anything different about Jesus before and after the cross ?
 
shittim

shittim

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#155
Dec 16, 2016
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#155
Jesus told us He came and made ALL things new, ALL means ALL.
We are not longer under the ten commandments either, "Love the Lord thy God with all you heart, soul and strength and love your neighbor as your self" covers the whole of the law.
You have to go to some of the ignorant churches and ignorant church teachings today to get back under the law Jesus came to free us from.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#156
Dec 6, 2016
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#156
throughfaith said:
Another difference would be the cross . Do you acknowledge anything different about Jesus before and after the cross ?
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Now we are agreeing. I do still feel objections to seeing the differences unless equal value is given to the sameness. But I love sharing the same thoughts, to agreeing with you about the Lord.
 
shittim

shittim

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#157
Dec 16, 2016
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#157
(do we love finding agreement or do we love finding truth? His own will seek His truth.)
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#158
Aug 4, 2020
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#158
Blik said:
Now we are agreeing. I do still feel objections to seeing the differences unless equal value is given to the sameness. But I love sharing the same thoughts, to agreeing with you about the Lord.
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Do you agree that prior to the cross they only recieved remission not redemption? That no one was regenerated , born again, sealed by the Holy spirit unto the day of redemption,? That THEY could lose salvation ect ?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#159
Dec 6, 2016
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#159
throughfaith said:
Do you agree that prior to the cross they only recieved remission not redemption? That no one was regenerated , born again, sealed by the Holy spirit unto the day of redemption,? That THEY could lose salvation ect ?
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What I think scripture tells us that they received sleep or being with ancestors only before Christ died on the cross. There is no scripture in the old testament that speaks of being in heaven with the Lord, yet in Matt. 27:52 it speaks of the those saints being made alive when Christ left for those three days. Even while Christ was on the cross, Christ speaks of being in heaven.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#160
Aug 4, 2020
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#160
Blik said:
What I think scripture tells us that they received sleep or being with ancestors only before Christ died on the cross. There is no scripture in the old testament that speaks of being in heaven with the Lord, yet in Matt. 27:52 it speaks of the those saints being made alive when Christ left for those three days. Even while Christ was on the cross, Christ speaks of being in heaven.
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But before they died ?
 
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