Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[FreeGrace2]

Dang I gave you the evidence ... read the story of the flood and what God said about the rainbow.

Well, dang. How does the flood prophesy anything about the end times? I'm very familiar with the story of the flood, and see NO relevance with end times.

So, you need to provide much more information that links the flood to end times.

You might also read how Abe interceded for Sodom and Gomorrah how that God cannot be so unjust as to destroy the righteous with the wicked. It is an established truth.

Again, totally unrelated. As to God "destroying" the righteous, there is a doctrine about God's divine discipline that includes physical death, so it's quite possible that some or many in the church going through the Tribulation will suffer physical death through divine discipline. Read 1 Cor 11:30 and note the progression. It ends in death. And the Bible gives us plenty of examples.

Revelation is full of instructive doctrine as well as prophecy.

Of course.

Revelations is a misnomer it is "the revelation of Jesus Christ" that is His coming again.

Actually, the book is not in the plural, but singular.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Amen
Empty heaven is the pretrib belief.

You seem rather confused, sir. The pre-trib belief is that Jesus makes a HUGE U-turn after resurrecting/rapturing and glorifying all believers and then taking them all BACK TO HEAVEN.

Thanks for reminding me.
It truly is a pretrib rapture.
Thanks

So, please explain how "emptying heaven" is a pre-trib belief. And please include all the Scriptural evidence of Jesus" HUMONGOUS U-turn after glorifying all saints.

Can't wait.

 

[Absolutely]

Not to mention this WAS the early belief, written, stated, and taught.

Yes there are pretrib adherents from early on.

Postribs never research those.

 

[Absolutely]

Because...when Christ comes back at the Second Advent, He empties heaven of its residents, brings them to earth, resurrects and glorifies their physical bodies, and then reigns for 1,000 years on this present earth.

Then, when He kills all unbelievers at the battle of Gog and Magog, the present heaven and earth are melted in the "fervent heat" that Peter described in 2 Peter, and God provides a "new heaven and new earth", where ALL believers will reside forever.

So, no problem with an empty heaven when Jesus returns at the Second Advent. Why would believers stay in heaven? They'd miss the Millennial reign. And there is no evidence of bringing believers from heaven AFTER the Millennium.

Yes heaven gets emptied

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes there are pretrib adherents from early on.

Postribs never research those.

Why "research" those who haven't bothered researching the Bible? Makes no sense.

When one researches the Bible and FINDS that Jesus NEVER makes a U-turn back to heaven with glorified believers, they learn that there is NO WAY pre-trib rapture is bibical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes heaven gets emptied

So then, why do you continue to push the big U-turn?

 

[Truth7t7]

Not to mention Jesus words that there is business in heaven.
Not only bride business but the 144k are in heaven by rev 14 as is the main body of Jews.

Postribs deny those things in heaven or the church ever SEEING heaven.
Or rev 19 having the bride in heaven DURING THE GT.

The marriage supper takes place (After) the second coming and end of this world, that will be dissolved by fire.

The dead saints, Church, are currently in the presence of the Lord Jesus, To be absent from the body, present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8KJV
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[Truth7t7]

No
The second coming on horses is not the rapture

Yes the second coming on horses is the final judgement by fire

When Jesus Christ is (Revealed) its "Fire Time"

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Truth7t7]

I think we may agree
The 144k are firstfruits and Jews.
The Jews are ushered to safety which tells me the 144k are more exposed since the flying scorpions sting all men not sealed.

So not sure if the main Jews gathered are exempt also.

All Believers Are (Sealed) the 144,000 Will Be Saved Through Jesus Christ, (Sealed) And Added To The Church Just As All Believers.

Jews That Arent Saved And Sealed, Will Suffer The Torment For 5 Months And Plagues, Just As All The Unsaved Will.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Revelation 7:4KJV
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Revelation 9:4KJV
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

[Truth7t7]

"""Eventually all will arise from this sleep. As Jesus said, the hour is coming "in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth" (John 5:28-29) Just like Lazarus, we will hear his voice. This is the comforting and encouraging truth revealed in the Scriptures."""

Only the dead in Christ rise First. ( 1thes 4)

The resurrection you are referring to is the general resurrection ( 2 nd death) after the mil. After satan is released for the final rebellion.

No such thing as a literal Millennial Kingdom on this earth found in the scripture, there will be no final rebellion.

Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire, immediately after the tribulation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Amen
Empty heaven is the pretrib belief.
Thanks for reminding me.
It truly is a pretrib rapture.
Thanks

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in the scripture, a man made fairytale.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No such thing as a literal Millennial Kingdom on this earth found in the scripture, there will be no final rebellion.

Then you have to deny the clear words of Rev 20, all of it.

Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire, immediately after the tribulation.

The word "fire" is used throughout Scripture as a metaphor for God's judgment. So when Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent, he will most assuredly be coming IN judgment upon the earth.

Rev 20-21:1 explains WHEN the earth melts and a new earth appears.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in the scripture, a man made fairytale.

I agree with your view on pre-trib rapture being a man made theory, but you have a huge problem with your own man made theory about the Millennial Reign of Christ. It's as literal as can be.

And you haven't explained yet about why the Bible describes this Millennial Reign as "ended" and "are over". So, what's all that about?

 

[Phoneman-777]

If anyone here is interested in a competing interpretation to the (comparatively new) Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurist ideas that are popularized here, which is more along the lines of what the Protestant Reformers taught for over three centuries of church history during the Protestant Reformation, click on this link:

The speaker was a SA University professor and atheist scientist for decades before becoming a Christian pastor, evangelist, author, researcher, and lecturer on many topics. His testimony on Youtube called "From Evolutionist to Creationist: My Most Difficult Journey" is so incredible, one wonders how it was possible this man found God at all.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then you have to deny the clear words of Rev 20, all of it.

The word "fire" is used throughout Scripture as a metaphor for God's judgment. So when Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent, he will most assuredly be coming IN judgment upon the earth.

Rev 20-21:1 explains WHEN the earth melts and a new earth appears.

Fire is a metaphor?

Only in your fairytale dream!

2 Peter 2:6KJV
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then you have to deny the clear words of Rev 20, all of it.

The word "fire" is used throughout Scripture as a metaphor for God's judgment. So when Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent, he will most assuredly be coming IN judgment upon the earth.

Rev 20-21:1 explains WHEN the earth melts and a new earth appears.

Fire is a metaphor?

Correct.

Only in your fairytale dream!

I would suggest doing a search on the word "fire" in the Bible. you'll see how much of a fairytale dream it isn't.

[QUOTE}2 Peter 2:6KJV
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.[/QUOTE]
OK, great, you are able to find verses where fire is used literally.

So, why don't you look all the uses of 'fire', unless you're afraid of what you will find?

 

[ewq1938]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then you have to deny the clear words of Rev 20, all of it.

The word "fire" is used throughout Scripture as a metaphor for God's judgment. So when Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent, he will most assuredly be coming IN judgment upon the earth.

And in his judgment never does he use fire as a weapon to kill anyone. His weapon is a symbolic sword.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"The word "fire" is used throughout Scripture as a metaphor for God's judgment. So when Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent, he will most assuredly be coming IN judgment upon the earth."

And in his judgment never does he use fire as a weapon to kill anyone. His weapon is a symbolic sword.

It's in His Word. Not hard to find.

Jer 23:29 - “Is not my word like fire,” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?
Amos 1:4 - I will send fire on the house of Hazael that will consume the fortresses of Ben-Hadad.
Amos 1:7 - I will send fire on the walls of Gaza that will consume her fortresses.
Amos 1:10 - I will send fire on the walls of Tyre that will consume her fortresses.
Amos 1:12 - I will send fire on Teman that will consume the fortresses of Bozrah. ”
Amos 1:14 - I will set fire to the walls of Rabbah that will consume her fortresses amid war cries on the day of battle, amid violent winds on a stormy day.
Malachi 3:2 - But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

 

[ewq1938]

None of those are the second coming of Christ. Here is the weapon he uses that day:

Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

No one is burned by fire by Christ.

I said:
"The word "fire" is used throughout Scripture as a metaphor for God's judgment. So when Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent, he will most assuredly be coming IN judgment upon the earth."

It's in His Word. Not hard to find.

Jer 23:29 - “Is not my word like fire,” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?
Amos 1:4 - I will send fire on the house of Hazael that will consume the fortresses of Ben-Hadad.
Amos 1:7 - I will send fire on the walls of Gaza that will consume her fortresses.
Amos 1:10 - I will send fire on the walls of Tyre that will consume her fortresses.
Amos 1:12 - I will send fire on Teman that will consume the fortresses of Bozrah. ”
Amos 1:14 - I will set fire to the walls of Rabbah that will consume her fortresses amid war cries on the day of battle, amid violent winds on a stormy day.
Malachi 3:2 - But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

 

[FreeGrace2]

None of those are the second coming of Christ. Here is the weapon he uses that day:

Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

OK, sure. A literal sword comes out of His literal mouth. If you say so. lol.

]No one is burned by fire by Christ.

That was my point.