In the Truth God is our safety

[Live4Him]

The centurion came to Jesus.

Yes, and Jesus was going to go into the home of a Roman centurion; something that Peter was hesitant to do later on:

Matthew chapter 8

[5] And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
[6] And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
[7] And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
[8] The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
[9] For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
[10] When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
[11] And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
[12] But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[13] And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

Care to try again?

 

[throughfaith]

I have a couple of questions for you, and if you can answer them correctly, then you should have the answers to some of your own questions as well.

Before I ask you my two questions, let's quickly establish a couple of facts:

1. Cornelius was a Roman centurion.

"There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band," (Acts 10:1)

2. Peter said that it was "unlawful" for a Jew to keep company or come unto one of another nation.

"And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." (Acts 10:28)

Now, here are my two questions:

1. If it truly was "unlawful" for a Jew to keep company or come unto one of another nation, and, in this particular case, the home of a Roman centurion, then why was Jesus, the consummate Jew, willing to do so himself?

Matthew chapter 8

[5] And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
[6] And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
[7] And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
[8] The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
[9] For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
[10] When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
[11] And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
[12] But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[13] And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

In other words, if Jesus, the consummate Jew, was perfectly willing to enter into the HOME of a Roman centurion, then why did Peter say that it was "unlawful"?

Was Jesus about to do something "unlawful", thereby making himself unworthy of being a sinless sacrifice?

2. If entering into the home of a Roman centurion truly was "unlawful", as Peter claimed, then why did God have to show him THREE TIMES that it wasn't?

I await your reply.

In the meantime, recognize that this is yet another example of Jesus ministering to a GENTILE during his earthly ministry.

Not only that, but also recognize that this GENTILE had such a "GREAT FAITH" that Jesus hadn't even found anywhere "IN ISRAEL" (Matt. 8:10).

For those that recognised and supported the jews . And those that feared God.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes, and Jesus was going to go into the home of a Roman centurion; something that Peter was hesitant to do later on:

Matthew chapter 8

[5] And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
[6] And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
[7] And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
[8] The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
[9] For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
[10] When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
[11] And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
[12] But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[13] And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

Care to try again?

I've already said Jesus did exceptions . The burden is on you to show the diciples preaching to Gentiles this great commission. You've already conceded by showing Peter certainly was not preaching to Gentiles prior to Cornelius .

 

[phil36]

I've already said Jesus did exceptions . The burden is on you to show the diciples preaching to Gentiles this great commission. You've already conceded by showing Peter certainly was not preaching to Gentiles prior to Cornelius .

Hi throughfaith,

I believe this is were you go wrong. We know that the gospel call started in Jerusalem, so the majority of brothers in Christ at first were Jewish.. so that straight away disproves your theory of 2 gospels one for Jews and one for gentiles.

There was a 3 year or so transition period between Jesus' earthly ministry and the cross, and then the spreading of the one true gospel from Jerusalem out to the whole world where it still being spread.

Paul teaches us that in Christ we gentiles have been included into the citizenship of God's people.

There is one Gospel and one people of God.


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

 

[throughfaith]

Hi throughfaith,

I believe this is were you go wrong. We know that the gospel call started in Jerusalem, so the majority of brothers in Christ at first were Jewish.. so that straight away disproves your theory of 2 gospels one for Jews and one for gentiles.

There was a 3 year or so transition period between Jesus' earthly ministry and the cross, and then the spreading of the one true gospel from Jerusalem out to the whole world where it still being spread.

Paul teaches us that in Christ we gentiles have been included into the citizenship of God's people.

There is one Gospel and one people of God.


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

Which gospel started in Jerusalem ? What is the ' one true gospel ' ?

 

[phil36]

Which gospel started in Jerusalem ? What is the ' one true gospel ' ?

The burden of proof is on you my friend. You have to show us where the scripture teaches that Jesus taught a different gospel from Paul.

Especially when Paul disagrees with you.


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2).


So can you show us where Paul says his gospel is not the same as Jesus'?

 

[Live4Him]

Hi throughfaith,

I believe this is were you go wrong. We know that the gospel call started in Jerusalem, so the majority of brothers in Christ at first were Jewish.. so that straight away disproves your theory of 2 gospels one for Jews and one for gentiles.

There was a 3 year or so transition period between Jesus' earthly ministry and the cross, and then the spreading of the one true gospel from Jerusalem out to the whole world where it still being spread.

Paul teaches us that in Christ we gentiles have been included into the citizenship of God's people.

There is one Gospel and one people of God.


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

Precisely, so what's his problem?

It's the same exact gospel being preached to both Jews and Gentiles alike, AND, whether he'll ever admit it or not, GENTILES, like Abel, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham, were actually saved long before any Israelites or Jews were or before any Israelites or Jews even existed.

 

[Live4Him]

Which gospel started in Jerusalem ? What is the ' one true gospel ' ?

Bro, seriously, the gospel has been being preached SINCE THE GARDEN OF EDEN.

Is it possible that you don't know this?

 

[throughfaith]

Bro, seriously, the gospel has been being preached SINCE THE GARDEN OF EDEN.

Is it possible that you don't know this?

Which is?

 

[throughfaith]

The burden of proof is on you my friend. You have to show us where the scripture teaches that Jesus taught a different gospel from Paul.

Especially when Paul disagrees with you.


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2).


So can you show us where Paul says his gospel is not the same as Jesus'?

why can't you tell me what the Gospel is ?

 

[Live4Him]

I've already said Jesus did exceptions . The burden is on you to show the diciples preaching to Gentiles this great commission. You've already conceded by showing Peter certainly was not preaching to Gentiles prior to Cornelius .

I've conceded nothing because there's nothing to concede as I'll explain momentarily.

Forget about "the disciples" for a moment, and consider the following:

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." (Gal. 3:8)

What is it about "God...preached before the gospel unto Abraham", WHO WAS A GENTILE, that you don't understand?

Also, what is it about this very same "gospel" making it possible for "ALL NATIONS" to "be blessed" that you don't understand?

You've been duped into believing that God's whole plan of salvation hinges on the physical nation of Israel.

News flash:

It doesn't.

Instead, God's plan of salvation hinges on JESUS CHRIST, "a lamb without blemish and without spot: WHO VERILY WAS FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" (I Pet. 1:19-20) or before there was ever a Gentile (they came first, whether you like it or not) or an Israelite upon the face of this earth which hadn't even been created as of yet.

Granted, Jesus was eventually born in Israel (and there's a reason for that which you obviously don't know), but salvation is found in him, and not in any physical nation.

Anyhow, contrary to your oft-repeated insinuations/false accusations/flat out lies, I NEVER SAID that "the disciples" preached to the Gentiles prior to the book of Acts, so stop being so deceitful.

I've asked you to quote where I've ever allegedly said what you constantly falsely accuse me of, and you haven't because you cannot.

If your whole line of defense is founded upon a strawman argument, and it is, then that ought to tell you something.

 

[throughfaith]

Bro, seriously, the gospel has been being preached SINCE THE GARDEN OF EDEN.

Is it possible that you don't know this?

No one seems to be telling me? Any offers ?

 

[throughfaith]

I've conceded nothing because there's nothing to concede as I'll explain momentarily.

Forget about "the disciples" for a moment, and consider the following:

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." (Gal. 3:8)

What is it about "God...preached before the gospel unto Abraham", WHO WAS A GENTILE, that you don't understand?

Also, what is it about this very same "gospel" making it possible for "ALL NATIONS" to "be blessed" that you don't understand?

You've been duped into believing that God's whole plan of salvation hinges on the physical nation of Israel.

News flash:

It doesn't.

Instead, God's plan of salvation hinges on JESUS CHRIST, "a lamb without blemish and without spot: WHO VERILY WAS FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" (I Pet. 1:19-20) or before there was ever a Gentile (they came first, whether you like it or not) or an Israelite upon the face of this earth which hadn't even been created as of yet.

Granted, Jesus was eventually born in Israel (and there's a reason for that which you obviously don't know), but salvation is found in him, and not in any physical nation.

Anyhow, contrary to your oft-repeated insinuations/false accusations/flat out lies, I NEVER SAID that "the disciples" preached to the Gentiles prior to the book of Acts, so stop being so deceitful.

I've asked you to quote where I've ever allegedly said what you constantly falsely accuse me of, and you haven't because you cannot.

If your whole line of defense is founded upon a strawman argument, and it is, then that ought to tell you something.

You know ' Gospel ' means ' good news ' right?

 

[Live4Him]

Which is?

Genesis chapter 3

[14] And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
[15] And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This is what is commonly known as "the protevangelium" or the first gospel:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/protevangelium

Definition of protevangelium

: a messianic interpretation of a text (as Gen 3:15 RSV) presaging man's ultimate triumph over sin through a coming Savior —used as the first anticipation of the gospel

Is it possible that you don't already know this...or are you just here to be contentious?

 

[throughfaith]

You know ' Gospel ' means ' good news ' right?

Try " all nations shall be blessed " on the street corner this weekend

 

[Live4Him]

I have to see to some other things for a bit, but I wanted to quickly address this before I go and before it gets buried by other posts and replies:

For those that recognised and supported the jews . And those that feared God.

Granted, the centurion whom Jesus encountered loved the nation of Israel and built them a synagogue (Luke 7:5), and, granted, Cornelius feared God, BUT here's what Peter himself concluded:

Acts chapter 10

[34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[35] But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Well, the lights finally went on in Peter's head, and I'm thankful for that, but here's my question for you:

WHEN did God become "no respecter of persons"?

Was it at this particular point in time or has God been "no respecter of persons" all along?

Of course, this "no respecter of persons" needs to be clarified in the context of what was said, so we need to recognize that he's "no respecter of persons BUT IN EVERY NATION he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him".

In light of this clarification, my revised question for you is this:

WHEN did people IN EVERY NATION or WHEN did any GENTILE who feared God and worked righteousness first get accepted by God?

Was Cornelius the first GENTILE to meet such conditions and be accepted or did other GENTILES precede him?

I'll check back for your answer later.

 

[Live4Him]

Try " all nations shall be blessed " on the street corner this weekend

I used to preach on the street corners, so I have already tried it by telling people of ALL NATIONS that they can be "blessed" through Abraham's "seed, which is Christ" (Gal. 3:16).

Praise God, some of them received such a "blessing"...probably to your dismay.

 

[throughfaith]

I used to preach on the street corners, so I have already tried it by telling people of ALL NATIONS that they can be "blessed" through Abraham's "seed, which is Christ" (Gal. 3:16).

Praise God, some of them received such a "blessing"...probably to your dismay.

Wouldn't you be better preaching what Paul preached to all the people after he was saved ? 1 cor 15 1-4 . That actually involves Jesus , dying for our sins and the resurrection.
And Judging by the disciples not knowing and understanding the death and resurrection prior to it happening its safe to say that even in spite of all these places in the Old testament, where we look back with the luxury of a complete Bible. They were not ' looking forward to the cross. No one is preaching Romans 10.9 prior to the cross and resurrection.

 

[throughfaith]

I used to preach on the street corners, so I have already tried it by telling people of ALL NATIONS that they can be "blessed" through Abraham's "seed, which is Christ" (Gal. 3:16).

Praise God, some of them received such a "blessing"...probably to your dismay.

I'm still preaching on the streets . I preach christ crucified and the resurrection. Thats the Gospel today . Thats the power of God unto salvation. Thats Romans 10 ,9 , Thats 1cor 15 .1-4
If they don't believe the resurrection, then its not salvation .

 

[Live4Him]

Wouldn't you be better preaching what Paul preached to all the people after he was saved ? 1 cor 15 1-4 . That actually involves Jesus , dying for our sins and the resurrection.
And Judging by the disciples not knowing and understanding the death and resurrection prior to it happening its safe to say that even in spite of all these places in the Old testament, where we look back with the luxury of a complete Bible. They were not ' looking forward to the cross. No one is preaching Romans 10.9 prior to the cross and resurrection.

God help you.

"No one is preaching Romans 10:9 prior to the cross and resurrection"?

Have you ever even read Paul's epistle to the Romans?

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: THAT IS, THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Did you catch that?

Paul plainly said that "THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH", which included Romans 10:9 that you mentioned, is the same exact "righteousness of faith" (vs. 6) that Moses preached to the children of Israel in the wilderness.

For crying out loud, man, this is what he was quoting:

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Whether you like it or not, the gospel was being preached back in the time of Moses, and even much further back than then.

In relation to Moses' day, again, we read:

Hebrews chapter 4

[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Contextually, the "them" whom "the gospel...did not profit...not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" were the Israelites in the wilderness.

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about, and you really should stop biting the hands which are trying to feed you the truth.