The diciples prayer .

[phil36]

What I'm getting at is understanding the bible. We are instructed to study to show thyself approved ect . What's the point in scripture if we just make things up ?

I would agree why make things up? Like the artificial divide between Jew and gentile (especially when Paul teaches that we are one in Christ)? That Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul??

Why make things up that aren't there?

 

[Journeyman]

Where is your scripture?

It's right here,

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdomto Israel? Act.1:6

You asked me what "the Jews" believed. They were taught what I already explained to you and Judaism still teaches this, but in praying "Thy Kingdom come", it should be obvious to any learned Christian that Jesus meant, reveal Thy Kingdom to us.,

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Lk.17:20

 

[throughfaith]

He is through Paul for Gods sake. Whats the matter with you? Are you saying that because Jesus never travelled outside of Israel during his ministry on earth that nothing he said was for gentiles?

11¶Wherefore REMEMBER, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE , and WITHOUT GOD in the world:

13BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Why are you missing this point. What's wrong with somethings being only spoken to Israel? Are we so arrogant as westerners that we make everything about us ? Whats wrong with Jesus meaning what HE says here ?

5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
We are GRAFTED in . We are not Israel .

 

[throughfaith]

I would agree why make things up? Like the artificial divide between Jew and gentile (especially when Paul teaches that we are one in Christ)? That Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul??

Why make things up that aren't there?

Yes sure ,let's ignore this verse then .
11¶Wherefore REMEMBER, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE , and WITHOUT GOD in the world:

13BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

[phil36]

Yes sure ,let's ignore this verse then .
11¶Wherefore REMEMBER, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE , and WITHOUT GOD in the world:

13BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:11-22.

Some great truths here.

Here we see Paul telling us that gentiles we're strangers (without God), alienated from the covenants of promise. But this whole section destroys what you have been writing . For Paul tells us what Christ has done.

But now in Christ Jesus --

1) Gentiles have been brought near have access to the Father v13;18

2) Through Christ the wall of hostility between Jew and gentile has been brought down and we have peace v14.

3) Paul states again that now through Christ we are one in the New Covenant which fulfilled all the Old Covenants of promise v15 & 16 (2 Cor 1:20). This is the new ekklesia of people.. the church jew and gentile (cf. Col 3:15)----


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility


So here is a recap---


V12--
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


v13a--

But now in Christ Jesus



v19ff--

you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,


There is no other way to be saved except through faith Christ Jesus for Jew and gentile. And in Christ we become one. There is no other separate plan of salvation for gentile or jew.

 

[throughfaith]

Ephesians 2:11-22.

Some great truths here.

Here we see Paul telling us that gentiles we're strangers (without God), alienated from the covenants of promise. But this whole section destroys what you have been writing . For Paul tells us what Christ has done.

But now in Christ Jesus --

1) Gentiles have been brought near have access to the Father v13;18

2) Through Christ the wall of hostility between Jew and gentile has been brought down and we have peace v14.

3) Paul states again that now through Christ we are one in the New Covenant which fulfilled all the Old Covenants of promise v15 & 16 (2 Cor 1:20). This is the new ekklesia of people.. the church jew and gentile (cf. Col 3:15)----


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility


So here is a recap---


V12--
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


v13a--

But now in Christ Jesus



v19ff--

you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,


There is no other way to be saved except through faith Christ Jesus for Jew and gentile. And in Christ we become one. There is no other separate plan of salvation for gentile or jew.

How ? I'm referring to BEFORE THE CROSS . THEY WERE NOT PREACHING THE DBR WHEN IT HADNT EVEN HAPPENED YET .

What are you preaching today? Are you not preaching the DBR for the sins of the world . Not for our sins only ,but for the sins of the whole world . If your not preaching that, then you are preaching ' another gospel? And another Jesus .

 

[Journeyman]

What I'm getting at is understanding the bible. We are instructed to study to show thyself approved ect . What's the point in scripture if we just make things up ?

I'm not making things up. Name one thing youve ever prayed according to God's will that isn't contained in the concise way Jesus taught his followers to pray.

 

[throughfaith]

Ephesians 2:11-22.

Some great truths here.

Here we see Paul telling us that gentiles we're strangers (without God), alienated from the covenants of promise. But this whole section destroys what you have been writing . For Paul tells us what Christ has done.

But now in Christ Jesus --

1) Gentiles have been brought near have access to the Father v13;18

2) Through Christ the wall of hostility between Jew and gentile has been brought down and we have peace v14.

3) Paul states again that now through Christ we are one in the New Covenant which fulfilled all the Old Covenants of promise v15 & 16 (2 Cor 1:20). This is the new ekklesia of people.. the church jew and gentile (cf. Col 3:15)----


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility


So here is a recap---


V12--
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


v13a--

But now in Christ Jesus



v19ff--

you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,


There is no other way to be saved except through faith Christ Jesus for Jew and gentile. And in Christ we become one. There is no other separate plan of salvation for gentile or jew.

I don't say TODAY that there is a wall of separation.

 

[phil36]

How ? I'm referring to BEFORE THE CROSS . THEY WERE NOT PREACHING THE DBR WHEN IT HADNT EVEN HAPPENED YET .

Of course, that would be very silly to suggest they were. But this is where you go fatally wrong. Yes there was a ''transition period'' of 3 or so years during Jesus' ministry. But after the cross, gentiles were included into God's people through the new covenant. again reread Ephesian 2. I'll post the mains points again for you.


So here is a recap---


V12--
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


v13a--

But now in Christ Jesus



v19ff--

you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,


There is no other way to be saved except through faith Christ Jesus for Jew and gentile. And in Christ we become one. There is no other separate plan of salvation for gentile or jew.

 

[throughfaith]

I'm not making things up. Name one thing youve ever prayed according to God's will that isn't contained in the concise way Jesus taught his followers to pray.

If you squint your eye just right you can make almost any verse fit anything.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

This is what people teach , I get it . Its become like a standard answer . But where does it say It was Jesus intent for us to do?

When he taught it to his disciples, and then leaving the ministry to his disciples said this. "And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28:18‭-‬20 ESV

So he taught them to pray then sent them into all the earth to make disciples and teach them what he had taught them. It's not rocket science.

 

[Journeyman]

11¶Wherefore REMEMBER, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE , and WITHOUT GOD in the world:

13BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Why are you missing this point.

Im not missing the point. He's saying before Christ, you were an UNBELIEVER. The division isn't between Jews and gentiles. The division is between BELIVERS and UNBELIEVERS.

What's wrong with somethings being only spoken to Israel? Are we so arrogant as westerners that we make everything about us ? Whats wrong with Jesus meaning what HE says here ?

5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
We are GRAFTED in . We are not Israel .

The gospel was first preached to the Jews. This doesn't mean it would never be preached to gentiles.

 

[Journeyman]

If you squint your eye just right you can make almost any verse fit anything.

My eyes are wide open. Go ahead and name one thing you've ever prayed that isnt covered by Christ's example of how to pray.

 

[throughfaith]

When he taught it to his disciples, and then leaving the ministry to his disciples said this. "And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28:18‭-‬20 ESV

So he taught them to pray then sent them into all the earth to make disciples and teach them what he had taught them. It's not rocket science.

He taught them many things. COMMANDS , PRAYER , ECT . He even commanded them before the cross not to preach to the gentiles.

 

[throughfaith]

My eyes are wide open. Go ahead and name one thing you've ever prayed that isnt covered by Christ's example of how to pray.

Yes I simply pray to God . Many things. I don't need to do it as rhe jews were instructed

 

[Journeyman]

Yes I simply pray to God . Many things. I don't need to do it as rhe jews were instructed

You don't need to pray, Thy will be done?
Ok.

 

[throughfaith]

You don't need to pray, Thy will be done?
Ok.

Need to ? what do you mean ? like I said this prayer has its own meaning to the Jews ..Pulling aspects from it and putting a western spin on it ,is not bible study .

 

[Edify]

You prefer to live in echo chambers?

I prefer to see inconsistant, foolish troublemakers banned so they would quit maligning the word of God.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

He taught them many things. COMMANDS , PRAYER , ECT . He even commanded them before the cross not to preach to the gentiles.

But he didn't teach them a different model for prayer, and there is no other model for prayer given.

 

[Journeyman]

Need to ? what do you mean ? like I said this prayer has its own meaning to the Jews ..Pulling aspects from it and putting a western spin on it ,is not bible study .

I mean every believer should pray God's will be done. Forget it.