Body Of CHRIST "Does NOT" Go To Heaven?

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GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,242
1,642
113
Midwest
#41
If we hold a grudge against another, how can we expect forgiveness? Matt. 6: 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Yes. Living in a constant state of forgiveness, is non-negotiable to spending eternity in His Presence.
Sorry, According To Rightly Divided Scriptures:
-----------------------------
Prophecy/Law:
(16) Forgive others FIRST, THEN God Will Forgive!
(Matthew 6:14-15, 18:35; Mark 11:25-26; Luke 6:37 KJB!)
RDf


Mystery/GRACE!:
(16) Forgive others BECAUSE CHRIST Has Already FORGIVEN us!
(
Ephesians 4:32 KJB!)
---------------------------------------
Forgiveness {# 16} in: Basic Distinctions of TWO Different Programs:

Be Blessed!
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#44
If God has not appointed His Children to Wrath, then why are only His Saints being killed during the 7 years
They were not His Saints when the Rapture happened. That is why they missed it.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,388
5,729
113
#45
They were not His Saints when the Rapture happened. That is why they missed it.
The martyrs in heaven who have been going there at since Stephen was stoned were told they had to be patient and wait for the rest of their fellow servants to join them. Rev 6: 9-11. God obviously sees those who are martyred during the tribulation as his saints.
The Church must be whole before any wedding celebration.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,388
5,729
113
#46
The 'Not appointed to wrath' phrase is not a proof text for pretribulation doctrine.

Beware. Because the pretribulation industry has used this as an advertising slogan for decades.
Attempts to discuss it are normally closed ASAP with a deflection to another subject.


Let us look at how it is taught in the Bible and not rely on the repetition of a doctrinal soundbite.

1 Thes 5:9
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.


Notice how this is framed as 2 opposites. Wrath or Salvation.
Not appointed to wrath but to receive salvation.
No promise to escape tribulation exists here.


Jesus presents it in the same way

John 3:36
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life,
but the wrath of God remains on him.”


John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,
unto the resurrection of damnation.


The blood of Jesus saves us from the wrath of God now.
The blood of Jesus saves believers who die during the tribulation.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#47
The martyrs in heaven who have been going there at since Stephen was stoned were told they had to be patient and wait for the rest of their fellow servants to join them. Rev 6: 9-11. God obviously sees those who are martyred during the tribulation as his saints.
The Church must be whole before any wedding celebration.
It's nice to see somebody who actually knows what she's talking about.

God bless you.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
113
#48
Precious friend(s), Is This not our hope?

"To whom God would make known what is the Riches of The Glory of This
Mystery among the Gentiles; Which is CHRIST in you, The Hope of Glory:"
(Colossians 1:27 KJB!)

Is not This Hope of Glory, our Home-going To our Final Destination, Heaven?:


"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before
in The Word of The Truth Of The {GRACE} Gospel;" (Colossians 1:5 KJB!)

Is there more? Yes, Many more Heavenly Passages, Be Blessed!:

Fellow "members" In CHRIST, who told you were NOT "going to Heaven"?
Are not The Following Also part of "The Riches of The Glory Of This Mystery"?:
What Saith The Scripture?:


Our position In CHRIST!:

"Blessed be The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who Hath blessed us
with all spiritual blessings in Heavenly places in Christ:" (Ephesians 1:3 KJB!)
+
"Which He Wrought in Christ, when He Raised HIM from the dead, and set
HIM at His Own Right Hand in The Heavenly Places," (Ephesians 1:20 KJB!)
+
"And Hath raised us up together, and Made us sit together
in heavenly places In Christ Jesus:" (Ephesians 2:6 KJB!)
+
"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look
for The Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ" (Philippians 3:20 KJB!)
+
"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were
dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with
hands, Eternal in the heavens." (2 Corinthians 5:1 KJB!)

If we Don't go to heaven, how, exactly does possessing
God's Eternal Heavenly building work?

"For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with
our house which is from heaven:" (2 Corinthians 5:2 KJB!)

Our Culmination to be With CHRIST, In Glorification, At Great GRACE Departure?:

Even though we are "changed into immortality, and put on the incorruptible,"
at This Event, do we not still have the Bema Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, for
"rewards for good works," AND Also
"to Clean Up" All our "losing rewards/
bad works" (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 KJB!), to Be Ready For The Following?:

"In The Body Of HIS Flesh through death, to Present you holy and
unblameable and unreproveable in HIS Sight:" (Colossians 1:22 KJB!)
+
"That HE might Present it To Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle,
or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:27 KJB!)
+
"To the end HE may Stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness Before God, even our
Father,
at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ With All HIS saints." (1 Thessalonians 3:13 KJB!)

Conclusion:
The Holy Word Of Truth States: "ALL of The Body Of CHRIST, At Departure from earth,
goes To Heaven, To be Judged, And Presented To BOTH The SON, And To The Father!
Who Will "Be Seated ON His Throne, In HIS Sight," In HEAVEN!
Amen?

Finally, After The Body Of CHRIST is Presented Above, then this?:

"Know ye not that we shall judge angels?..." (1 Corinthians 6:3a KJB!) Angels in Heaven?

Another thought would be: who is going to be occupying the vacancies in heaven, where "the
1/3 of the angels Fell With Lucifer"? Possibly The Body Of CHRIST, ruling/reigning in Heaven?

Please, Be Very RICHLY Blessed In All spiritual blessings In CHRIST!
And Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫😇↑[/QUOTE]
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
113
#49
Precious friend(s), Is This not our hope?

"To whom God would make known what is the Riches of The Glory of This
Mystery among the Gentiles; Which is CHRIST in you, The Hope of Glory:"
(Colossians 1:27 KJB!)

Is not This Hope of Glory, our Home-going To our Final Destination, Heaven?:
The verses you quote does not teach that our 'final destination' is heaven.

Revelation 21:1 says,
21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

Peter also wrote about the new heaven and the new earth. Jesus said that the meek shall inherit the earth.


"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before
in The Word of The Truth Of The {GRACE} Gospel;" (Colossians 1:5 KJB!)
The hope is laid up in heaven. But we are waiting to be clothed with the heavenly.

II Corinthians 5
5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
(NKJV)

Paul associates the Spirit as a guarantee of the resurrection in other passages. See Romans 8 for just one example. At the resurrection of the dead and transformation of the surviving saints, we see this will happen in

I Corinthians 15.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
(NKJV)

So we should take these verses in II Corinthians 5 as referring to resurrection. Notice the similarity of these passages.

In Acts 1, the men who spoke to the apostles a the resurrection told them that the Lord Jesus would return as he ascended. When Christ ascended, He did not come go up, then hang up to earth forever. he did not go part-way up, then go back down for seven years. He ascended, as far as we know, in one direction until he got to his final destination.

'Parousia'-- or 'coming' in passages that refer to the coming of Christ, was used to refer to visits from dignitaries out of town. At an official's arrival, people from the city would go out to meet Him and welcome Him with celebration, escorting Him into the city. When Christ returns, the saints will be resurrected or transformed and will go up to meet Him in the air.
Is there more? Yes, Many more Heavenly Passages, Be Blessed!:

Fellow "members" In CHRIST, who told you were NOT "going to Heaven"?
Are not The Following Also part of "The Riches of The Glory Of This Mystery"?:
What Saith The Scripture?:


Our position In CHRIST!:

"Blessed be The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who Hath blessed us
with all spiritual blessings in Heavenly places in Christ:" (Ephesians 1:3 KJB!)
+
"Which He Wrought in Christ, when He Raised HIM from the dead, and set
HIM at His Own Right Hand in The Heavenly Places," (Ephesians 1:20 KJB!)
+
"And Hath raised us up together, and Made us sit together
in heavenly places In Christ Jesus:" (Ephesians 2:6 KJB!)
We are waiting to be clothed with mortality from heaven. Now, while we are physically on the earth, we are in Christ, who is at the right hand of God in heavenly places, so we are seated in heavenly places. But that does not say we will physically go to heaven.

"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look
for The Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ" (Philippians 3:20 KJB!)
+
We are waiting for our Savior to come from heaven. How does this prove your point?

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were
dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with
hands, Eternal in the heavens." (2 Corinthians 5:1 KJB!)
See verses above. We are waiting to be clothed with this, to be clothed with immorality. It's in heaven. But where does it say we will be clothed with it in heaven? The dead will be resurrected on earth.

If we Don't go to heaven, how, exactly does possessing
God's Eternal Heavenly building work?

"For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with
our house which is from heaven:" (2 Corinthians 5:2 KJB!)
Notice FROM heaven in that quote.

Our Culmination to be With CHRIST, In Glorification, At Great GRACE Departure?:

Even though we are "changed into immortality, and put on the incorruptible,"
at This Event, do we not still have the Bema Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, for
"rewards for good works," AND Also
"to Clean Up" All our "losing rewards/
bad works" (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 KJB!), to Be Ready For The Following?:

"In The Body Of HIS Flesh through death, to Present you holy and
unblameable and unreproveable in HIS Sight:" (Colossians 1:22 KJB!)
+
"That HE might Present it To Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle,
or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:27 KJB!)
+
"To the end HE may Stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness Before God, even our
Father,
at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ With All HIS saints." (1 Thessalonians 3:13 KJB!)
At the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints. Jesus is coming. Why would it be called the parousia/coming if Jesus were in heaven and going to heaven, instead of coming to earth? We are waiting for Jesus to come to earth. At the ascension, the apostles were told Jesus would return.
Another thought would be: who is going to be occupying the vacancies in heaven, where "the
1/3 of the angels Fell With Lucifer"? Possibly The Body Of CHRIST, ruling/reigning in Heaven?
That is a bit speculative. But there are some beings known as 'sons of God'. Them that believe in Christ's name are given power to become the sons of God. So there may be something there, but it is not explicit in the scriptures.

It may be that the spirits of the disembodied dead 'go to heaven' to be with Christ. And after the 1000 years, the New Jerusalem, which is like a bride prepared for her husband, descended out of heaven in the vision. It could be the church is in heaven when the elements melt with fervent heat before returning to the new earth. But eternity in heaven? None of the scriptures you present prove that. We are waiting for the heavenly to come to earth and for the new earth. Our hope, that we should be looking forward to, is the resurrection of the dead, the redemption of our body.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#50
The martyrs in heaven who have been going there at since Stephen was stoned were told they had to be patient and wait for the rest of their fellow servants to join them. Rev 6: 9-11. God obviously sees those who are martyred during the tribulation as his saints.
The Church must be whole before any wedding celebration.
Yes
They are left behind martyred and before the throne.
The early or earlier saints/ patriarch martyrs were not allowed from under the altar " till their number is completed".... now the innumerable number are before the throne.

Their number must be completed.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#52
They were not His Saints when the Rapture happened. That is why they missed it.
They were saved( virgins) but had run out of oil.
They had SOME oil but it ran out.
They are saints but foolish( carnal) as the corinthians were.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#53
The 'Not appointed to wrath' phrase is not a proof text for pretribulation doctrine.

Beware. Because the pretribulation industry has used this as an advertising slogan for decades.
Attempts to discuss it are normally closed ASAP with a deflection to another subject.


Let us look at how it is taught in the Bible and not rely on the repetition of a doctrinal soundbite.

1 Thes 5:9
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.


Notice how this is framed as 2 opposites. Wrath or Salvation.
Not appointed to wrath but to receive salvation.
No promise to escape tribulation exists here.


Jesus presents it in the same way

John 3:36
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life,
but the wrath of God remains on him.”


John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,
unto the resurrection of damnation.


The blood of Jesus saves us from the wrath of God now.
The blood of Jesus saves believers who die during the tribulation.
...except for the two escape verses you left out

Oh the omissions!!!

...and that the baby Jesus escaped wrath as did noah and lot.

...all escaped and we're REMOVED


NONE were removed later/ after the "trib"

No way you can get around it

Sure those omissions work for you guys in your circles.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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#54
If God has not appointed His Children to Wrath, then why are only His Saints being killed during the 7 years, and the wicked left untouched? Either God is killing His own, or Satan is killing them, which would make the 7 years appropriately named The Tribulation, and not named The Wrath.


Jesus said the end of the world would be in the exact fashion as the days of Noah and Lot. Which one of these scenarios is NOT TRUE?

1. Upon a 7 day warning, Noah finished filling the ark. Immediately the rain began to fall. The same day, the earth was flooded.
2 Lot was told not to look back when he exited Sodom, and the same day God destroyed the city.
3. Jesus will save His Bride, the Church, then *seven years later, destroy the wicked.

*The Words of Jesus Christ:

Luke 17:26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;

29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
"God has not appointed us to wrath...."

God uses the earthly family to illustrate the heavenly.

No true father appoints his child to wrath.
That would be perverted.

In 3:16.
Nobody is " appointed " to wrath.

Those suffering it are rebellious.

Even hell was created for the devil and his demons.....not for man.

It is man himself that chooses wrath and hell
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#55
There is no bride without the saved remnant of Israel and and all the tribulation believers.
There can be no marriage supper with an incomplete bride.
The wedding feast happens on earth after Jesus returns when his bride is made ready.

The New Jerusalem happens with the creation of a new heavens & earth 1000 years later.
Rev 14 is the remnant you speak of gathered to heaven.

It even says the 144 k are firstfruits.
Firstfruits Jews.
Gathered to heaven for the wedding supper Jesus prophesied.

" I will not drink of the vine till I drink it anew with you in my fathers kingdom."
That is the wedding supper.

Without the bride/ groom components end times basically will never be thoroughly unpacked.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#56
Yes
They are left behind martyred and before the throne.
The early or earlier saints/ patriarch martyrs were not allowed from under the altar " till their number is completed".... now the innumerable number are before the throne.

Their number must be completed.
Oh, please.

Don't tell me that you're so gullible to believe any of that "left behind" garbage.

Let's see who's actually "left behind" according to Jesus:

Matthew chapter 24

[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Who "knew not until the flood came, AND TOOK THEM ALL AWAY" in the days of Noah?

Noah and his family members (those who were saved) or those who were wiped out by the flood (those who were lost)?

Of course, the correct answer is THOSE WHO WERE LOST.

Those were the ones who were "taken" in Noah's day, and, similarly, according to Jesus Christ, THOSE WHO ARE LOST will be "taken" at his second coming.

In other words, according to what Jesus actually said, those who are "left" or "left behind" ARE THE RIGHTEOUS...NOT THOSE WHO ALLEGEDLY MISSED SOME PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE TO HEAVEN THAT IS NEVER COMING.

Luke's parallel account shows this undeniable truth more clearly.

We read:

Luke chapter 17

26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
[31] In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
[32] Remember Lot's wife.
[33] Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
[34] I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
[35] Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[36] Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Those whom the flood "took away" in Matthew's account and those who were "destroyed" in Luke's account are THE LOST.

With this reality before us, I counsel anyone who has been believing Tim LaHaye's and Jerry Jenkins' "Left Behind" garbage to totally renounce it.

It's flawed foundationally in that they don't even know who was "left behind" in Jesus' actual teaching, and every step beyond that as well.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#57
Oh, please.

Don't tell me that you're so gullible to believe any of that "left behind" garbage.

Let's see who's actually "left behind" according to Jesus:

Matthew chapter 24

[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Who "knew not until the flood came, AND TOOK THEM ALL AWAY" in the days of Noah?

Noah and his family members (those who were saved) or those who were wiped out by the flood (those who were lost)?

Of course, the correct answer is THOSE WHO WERE LOST.

Those were the ones who were "taken" in Noah's day, and, similarly, according to Jesus Christ, THOSE WHO ARE LOST will be "taken" at his second coming.

In other words, according to what Jesus actually said, those who are "left" or "left behind" ARE THE RIGHTEOUS...NOT THOSE WHO ALLEGEDLY MISSED SOME PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE TO HEAVEN THAT IS NEVER COMING.

Luke's parallel account shows this undeniable truth more clearly.

We read:

Luke chapter 17

26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
[31] In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
[32] Remember Lot's wife.
[33] Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
[34] I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
[35] Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[36] Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Those whom the flood "took away" in Matthew's account and those who were "destroyed" in Luke's account are THE LOST.

With this reality before us, I counsel anyone who has been believing Tim LaHaye's and Jerry Jenkins' "Left Behind" garbage to totally renounce it.

It's flawed foundationally in that they don't even know who was "left behind" in Jesus' actual teaching, and every step beyond that as well.
Lol
All the in-laws were left behind in both Noah and lot.
PSSST...neither noah or lot had ANY DELIVERANCE POST FLOOD/ FIRE.
NOTHING at all post judgement. Your doctrine is so poorly thought out friend

Mat 24 has one taken one left
Then immediately Jesus say watch and be ready so it is believers taken and believers left.

Before those declarations by Jesus he framed noah and the ones taken/ left by saying "before the flood". See that? See what you have been misled into? You have convinced yourself that both Noah and Lot were delivered post trib.
Really???? You guys are still trying to convince yourself?


Remember
You heard it here first
No postrib rapture work book has the pretrib rapture verses.
They do not go there and niether do you.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#58
QUOTE BY L4 H ;
"""Luke's parallel account shows this undeniable truth more clearly.
We read:
Luke chapter 17
26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;"""



So what you are saying is that Noah and Lot were delivered pretrib and the setting for both is normal life???

Oh yes we agree!!! we both agree with scripture that can not POSSIBLY be post trib setting. Good point! Thanks for verifying yet another pretrib rapture dynamic.

I see you finally saw that Noah and Lot are not at all postrib rapture dynamics.
And that normal life would also be a pretrib rapture dynamic
Thank again for the pretrib rapture components.

So plain
So simple
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#59
L4H QUOTE ;
"""Oh, please.
Don't tell me that you're so gullible to believe any of that "left behind" garbage"""


Interpret for US the 10 virgin parable.( The rapture)

I will wait.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#60
Lol
All the in-laws were left behind in both Noah and lot.
PSSST...neither noah or lot had ANY DELIVERANCE POST FLOOD/ FIRE.
NOTHING at all post judgement. Your doctrine is so poorly thought out friend

Mat 24 has one taken one left
Then immediately Jesus say watch and be ready so it is believers taken and believers left.

Before those declarations by Jesus he framed noah and the ones taken/ left by saying "before the flood". See that? See what you have been misled into? You have convinced yourself that both Noah and Lot were delivered post trib.
Really???? You guys are still trying to convince yourself?


Remember
You heard it here first
No postrib rapture work book has the pretrib rapture verses.
They do not go there and niether do you.
First of all, don't flatter yourself in your own pride anymore than you already have.

I can assure you that I've heard absolutely nothing "here first" in that I've been refuting the nonsense that you're presently spewing for more than 30 years.

Anyhow, seeing how you've done nothing to refute what I said about the whole "left behind" thing, I'll simply focus on one of your other errors right now.

Despite your blather about what I've supposedly been misled into believing, what YOU fail to recognize is that BOTH DELIVERANCE AND JUDGMENT CAME ABOUT ON THE SAME DAY IN JESUS' CITED EXAMPLES OF NOAH AND LOT...

Luke chapter 17

[26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

...BECAUSE BOTH DELIVERANCE AND JUDGMENT WILL COME ABOUT ON THE SAME DAY WHEN JESUS RETURNS.

Got it?

The implications of such a Biblical truth?

Well, that your "Duh, THE CHURCH IS DELIVERED 7 YEARS PRIOR TO JUDGMENT in a pre-tribulation rapture" belief/teaching is pure, unadulterated, antichristian (in that it flies directly in the face of what Jesus actually taught), nonsensical GARBAGE.

Hey, maybe you like garbage.

I don't.

I regularly put it out by the curb.