'The rich young ruler ' confusion .

[posthuman]

more succinctly, it's about WHO Salvation is, not 'how' to get salvation. which is why Jesus first answered the man with 'why do you call me good?' instead of 'do this and this and this' -- the rest of their conversation is about his unbelief, because eternal life is through belief. Jesus said it, Paul said it, Peter said it. one gospel. if you believe Him, you love Him, and if you love Him you do what He commands; you try.

this is the same from Genesis 1: He said let there be light and separated the light from the darkness. He did it. Him.

 

[Guojing]

this is inaccurate and i'm sorry that i have not made myself clear.

God clearly required of Israel many works. that's what makes them 'jealous' when He calls to Himself a bride from the Gentiles and doesn't require works from them. even from Abraham He required circumcision, but our circumcision is one He Himself performs, not one made by human hands. this is great generosity!

the truth is that i believe the entire Bible is about Christ, that He has had from the beginning one answer for sin, it being His own blood, that the gospel is "God is Salvation" - the Name of Jesus - and this is the ubiquitous message of all of the scripture. just because mysteries have been revealed in the advent of the Messiah doesn't mean the Messiah is plan B. this is the same from the beginning, which was, which is, and which is to come; the Lamb slain from the foundation. Emmanuel = Jesus

even so the covenant of a Law of works teaches the same thing, because the daily sacrifice is daily repeated, it not being sufficient to remove sin but only to cover it. see Hebrews 10

So you do believe that Israel was required to do works, before the cross, for them to remain in the covenant of Law that they agreed on in Exodus 24?

Did that change when Jesus was preaching to them, before the cross?

 

[posthuman]

So you do believe that Israel was required to do works, before the cross, for them to remain in the covenant of Law that they agreed on in Exodus 24?

Did that change when Jesus was preaching to them, before the cross?

He told the Gentile Samaritan woman who He is, and told her the time is coming and now is
He told the pharisees that sinners were entering the kingdom, present tense.
so even while He walked the earth before He shed His blood, he was forgiving sins without requiring sacrifice. the moment He was conceived in Mary, Salvation had come, and whoever believed was made free. how long it took them to understand it is an entirely separate matter, IMO.

i was just as free as i know i am now, when i believed but didn't understand freedom. it wasn't my comprehension making me free; it was Him. if that makes sense?

 

[Blik]

So you do believe that Israel was required to do works, before the cross, for them to remain in the covenant of Law that they agreed on in Exodus 24?

Did that change when Jesus was preaching to them, before the cross?

It is true that the Lord used the Hebrew nation to be caretakers of the word of the Lord, and it is good of you to try to understand that, but you are carrying this Israel/gentile thing too far. The Lord is giving eternal principles we are to watch for, and by only thinking of the difference God makes of the gentiles and Irrael you are missing the principles of the Lord that we are to keep uppermost in our minds.

 

[Guojing]

He told the Gentile Samaritan woman who He is, and told her the time is coming and now is
He told the pharisees that sinners were entering the kingdom, present tense.
so even while He walked the earth before He shed His blood, he was forgiving sins without requiring sacrifice. the moment He was conceived in Mary, Salvation had come, and whoever believed was made free. how long it took them to understand it is an entirely separate matter, IMO.

i was just as free as i know i am now, when i believed but didn't understand freedom. it wasn't my comprehension making me free; it was Him. if that makes sense?

So your answer is yes or no?

 

[Scribe]

Ok so zooming in to the texts in question .
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So observations are .
Its the Book of Matthew .
And Jesus is speaking to the Jewish diciples about end times.

I got tired so I won't spend too much time on it tonight. However, this should be a good start to demonstrate that the idea of enduring until the end is incorporated within the scriptural definition of Faith that saves.

In one passage Matthew 24 one might think that he is talking about enduring the great tribulation. However there are many more passages where something similar is stated. What we can discover is that in many ways they all lived this life. They were persecuted, were delivered up, were put to death and had to endure unto death with a promise of eternal life. The principle applied to them at the time, all saints between their time and ours, and it applies to the saints who will be alive at the very end before Jesus returns.


Matthew 24
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 13
10And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matt 10
16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

2 Timothy 2:3, 10, KJV
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

James 5:11, KJV
"Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy."

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

1 Corinthians 15:58
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

Heb 12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.

Revelation 3:11
I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelation 3:21
The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Hebrews 4:14
Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

Romans 2:7
To those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

Hebrews 6:11
And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end,

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Revelation 21:7
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

James 1:4
And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Revelation 2:25-28
Only hold fast what you have until I come. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

Ephesians 6:13
Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’

Revelation 2:25
Only hold fast what you have until I come.

2 Timothy 4:6-8
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

1 Thessalonians 3:8
For now we live, if you are standing fast in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Hebrews 10:35
Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward

Hebrews 6
11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.,,,15And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

Philippians 3:14
I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Revelation 3:12
The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.

Hebrews 6:18
So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.

Revelation 3:3
Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.

Revelation 16:15
(“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”)

Colossians 1:23
If indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

[Guojing]

It is true that the Lord used the Hebrew nation to be caretakers of the word of the Lord, and it is good of you to try to understand that, but you are carrying this Israel/gentile thing too far. The Lord is giving eternal principles we are to watch for, and by only thinking of the difference God makes of the gentiles and Irrael you are missing the principles of the Lord that we are to keep uppermost in our minds.

So you have the same perspective as Scribe here.

 

[Edify]

Is there a verse that says we lose the Holy Spirit and become un regenerated , un justified ,lose the righteousness of Christ ect? We seem to have all the details on what happens to believers. Every detail is there . But no description of all this being undone or reversed .

I know verses that say that we can but you would just do me the same way you are doing everybody else, so no.
Ya'know, Hypergrace & OSAS have become so much alike that I can't figure out which one you are. Since hypergrace is the newest, I'm guessing that one.

 

[Scribe]

Isn't romans 10.9 +10 How people should receive Jesus today ?

There is no contradiction. Not just today but when it was written. Consider what it mean to them when it was written. Many were arrested and told that if they denied the name of Jesus Christ they would be set free. They chose to Confess His Name and were saved even though they were killed for it.

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

 

[Scribe]

Something interesting is being observed in this thread, you have 2 types who opposed your thinking.

Posthuman represents one type that believes salvation was always by grace thru faith, apart from works, ever since Genesis 3.

Scribe represents the other type, one that believes salvation was always by grace thru faith AND works, from the beginning of time.

Either type would find your thinking to be in error.

So I guess you are trying to say that enduring until the end, or selling everything you hold dear that would be opposed to the kingdom of God in order to obtain the kingdom of God is a work? See what you are doing there is taking what Paul discussed concerning the Works of the Law and trying to twist it into anything that we do, such as repentance or praying being a work, but they are not the works of the Law Paul was talking about and calling them a work is made up idea not supported by anything Paul said.

People were doing that at that time which is why James had to correct them with examples of how loving people by helping to meet their needs was not a Work of the Law but a work of Faith. There are works of the Law that will not justify and there are Works of Faith that will. Faith is an action. You cannot give mental assent that you believe that Jesus existed and make not effort to turn from your sins and still be saved. That is not faith that is just believing like the devils believe. Baptism in water is not a work of the Law, it is an act of faith. Giving up everything that Jesus tells you give up to follow him is not a work of the Law it is an act of Faith.

 

[Guojing]

So I guess you are trying to say that enduring until the end, or selling everything you hold dear that would be opposed to the kingdom of God in order to obtain the kingdom of God is a work? See what you are doing there is taking what Paul discussed concerning the Works of the Law and trying to twist it into anything that we do, such as repentance or praying being a work, but they are not the works of the Law Paul was talking about and calling them a work is made up idea not supported by anything Paul said.

People were doing that at that time which is why James had to correct them with examples of how loving people by helping to meet their needs was not a Work of the Law but a work of Faith. There are works of the Law that will not justify and there are Works of Faith that will. Faith is an action. You cannot give mental assent that you believe that Jesus existed and make not effort to turn from your sins and still be saved. That is not faith that is just believing like the devils believe. Baptism in water is not a work of the Law, it is an act of faith. Giving up everything that Jesus tells you give up to follow him is not a work of the Law it is an act of Faith.

Under the gospel of the kingdom, Jesus was coming as the promised King of Israel, to usher the entire nation into a physical kingdom from Jerusalem, first prophesied by God himself in 2 Samuel 7, some call it the Davidic covenant.

So yes you are correct, Israel had to obey the Law since it is still under the administration of the Covenant of Law made between God and Israel in Exodus 24.

 

[throughfaith]

yes, either because he believed Jesus - and knew he had to do what Jesus asked, or because he didn't believed Jesus, and was disappointed that the hope he had put in talking to this 'famous rabbi' were in his opinion a waste of time.

right?

if it is the second, then it's not his great wealth that makes him sad. so it has to be the first, because the Bible says this is why he was sad. which means he took to heart what Christ had told him.
so he's sad because he believes Christ -- because he knows he needs to do it. that's either sad because he's going to miss his great wealth, or sad because he knows he's going to have an hard time carrying out what he was told he ought to do.

which one is it?
in either case, he's not choosing his wealth over Christ. he's choosing righteousness and realizing either it involves suffering, or he's choosing righteousness and realizing it's something beyond his own ability to achieve.

what fits the narrative? he already knows that his keeping of the law hasn't earned him eternal life. that's the whole reason he came to Jesus, because he knows something is missing.

I got tired so I won't spend too much time on it tonight. However, this should be a good start to demonstrate that the idea of enduring until the end is incorporated within the scriptural definition of Faith that saves.

In one passage Matthew 24 one might think that he is talking about enduring the great tribulation. However there are many more passages where something similar is stated. What we can discover is that in many ways they all lived this life. They were persecuted, were delivered up, were put to death and had to endure unto death with a promise of eternal life. The principle applied to them at the time, all saints between their time and ours, and it applies to the saints who will be alive at the very end before Jesus returns.


Matthew 24
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 13
10And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matt 10
16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

2 Timothy 2:3, 10, KJV
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

James 5:11, KJV
"Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy."

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

1 Corinthians 15:58
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

Heb 12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.

Revelation 3:11
I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelation 3:21
The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Hebrews 4:14
Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

Romans 2:7
To those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

Hebrews 6:11
And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end,

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Revelation 21:7
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

James 1:4
And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Revelation 2:25-28
Only hold fast what you have until I come. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

Ephesians 6:13
Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’

Revelation 2:25
Only hold fast what you have until I come.

2 Timothy 4:6-8
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

1 Thessalonians 3:8
For now we live, if you are standing fast in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Hebrews 10:35
Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward

Hebrews 6
11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.,,,15And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

Philippians 3:14
I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Revelation 3:12
The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.

Hebrews 6:18
So that by two unchangeable .

In response to your ridiculously long proof text shopping list .
Ok, you do realise that you could pick any belief within any religion / cult within christendom and list a whole load of 'proof texts 'and say see look all these 'verses 'prove it . You can see that right?

 

[throughfaith]

I know verses that say that we can but you would just do me the same way you are doing everybody else, so no.
Ya'know, Hypergrace & OSAS have become so much alike that I can't figure out which one you are. Since hypergrace is the newest, I'm guessing that one.

I meant ' that say ' . Literally that say that we can lose those things . Not infer , imply , conjecture, speculate..Which seems to be very popular . I prefer OSSS . Once saved stay saved. Some think this is only possible in heaven but I believe God is able to save us prior.

 

[throughfaith]

There is no contradiction. Not just today but when it was written. Consider what it mean to them when it was written. Many were arrested and told that if they denied the name of Jesus Christ they would be set free. They chose to Confess His Name and were saved even though they were killed for it.

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Do you mean like Peter when he denied Jesus ?

 

[throughfaith]

yes, either because he believed Jesus - and knew he had to do what Jesus asked, or because he didn't believed Jesus, and was disappointed that the hope he had put in talking to this 'famous rabbi' were in his opinion a waste of time.

right?

if it is the second, then it's not his great wealth that makes him sad. so it has to be the first, because the Bible says this is why he was sad. which means he took to heart what Christ had told him.
so he's sad because he believes Christ -- because he knows he needs to do it. that's either sad because he's going to miss his great wealth, or sad because he knows he's going to have an hard time carrying out what he was told he ought to do.

which one is it?
in either case, he's not choosing his wealth over Christ. he's choosing righteousness and realizing either it involves suffering, or he's choosing righteousness and realizing it's something beyond his own ability to achieve.

what fits the narrative? he already knows that his keeping of the law hasn't earned him eternal life. that's the whole reason he came to Jesus, because he knows something is missing.

I wouldn't say he believed he had 'earned 'eternal life through keeping the law . He asked what he must 'do '. Not to Earn but to do ,what was required in order to have . Someone may ask us that question today . I don't believe we should give Jesus answer today . That's my point . Today we should respond with the Gospel . The good news that Jesus has died for our sins and that by believing they can receive Jesus ect . All things Jesus never said ,nor could say ,as the good news we have today hadnt happened yet .

 

[posthuman]

So your answer is yes or no?

to my understanding the shepherds to whom angels announced His birth could have been saved, apart from works, that very night according to their faith.

 

[posthuman]

I wouldn't say he believed he had 'earned 'eternal life through keeping the law . He asked what he must 'do '. Not to Earn but to do ,what was required in order to have . Someone may ask us that question today . I don't believe we should give Jesus answer today . That's my point . Today we should respond with the Gospel . The good news that Jesus has died for our sins and that by believing they can receive Jesus ect . All things Jesus never said ,nor could say ,as the good news we have today hadnt happened yet .

it seems from the text he understood very well that he had not earned eternal life, that even tho he kept the law, it was insufficient.
but he came to Jesus asking what he must 'do' to inherit it - he had the mindset that it could be achieved through effort.

i do believe we should respond with exactly what Jesus said to him: "no one is good, but God alone"
is this not exactly how we begin the journey on the 'Romans road'? for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
certainly there is more, and Christ went on to do more -- if the young man did dispossess himself of his earthly riches, and became Christ's disciple, following Him, then he himself saw what more there is, too.

 

[Truth7t7]

I got tired so I won't spend too much time on it tonight. However, this should be a good start to demonstrate that the idea of enduring until the end is incorporated within the scriptural definition of Faith that saves.

In one passage Matthew 24 one might think that he is talking about enduring the great tribulation. However there are many more passages where something similar is stated. What we can discover is that in many ways they all lived this life. They were persecuted, were delivered up, were put to death and had to endure unto death with a promise of eternal life. The principle applied to them at the time, all saints between their time and ours, and it applies to the saints who will be alive at the very end before Jesus returns.


Matthew 24
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 13
10And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matt 10
16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

2 Timothy 2:3, 10, KJV
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

James 5:11, KJV
"Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy."

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

1 Corinthians 15:58
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

Heb 12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.

Revelation 3:11
I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelation 3:21
The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Hebrews 4:14
Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

Romans 2:7
To those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

Hebrews 6:11
And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end,

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Revelation 21:7
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

James 1:4
And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Revelation 2:25-28
Only hold fast what you have until I come. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

Ephesians 6:13
Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’

Revelation 2:25
Only hold fast what you have until I come.

2 Timothy 4:6-8
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

1 Thessalonians 3:8
For now we live, if you are standing fast in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Hebrews 10:35
Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward

Hebrews 6
11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.,,,15And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

Philippians 3:14
I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Revelation 3:12
The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.

Hebrews 6:18
So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.

Revelation 3:3
Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.

Revelation 16:15
(“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”)

Colossians 1:23
If indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

38 references?

39 and I might be convinced

Keep up the fight, endure unto the end!

 

[throughfaith]

it seems from the text he understood very well that he had not earned eternal life, that even tho he kept the law, it was insufficient.
but he came to Jesus asking what he must 'do' to inherit it - he had the mindset that it could be achieved through effort.

i do believe we should respond with exactly what Jesus said to him: "no one is good, but God alone"
is this not exactly how we begin the journey on the 'Romans road'? for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
certainly there is more, and Christ went on to do more -- if the young man did dispossess himself of his earthly riches, and became Christ's disciple, following Him, then he himself saw what more there is, too.

The law should have driven to faith . To believe. But h

yes, either because he believed Jesus - and knew he had to do what Jesus asked, or because he didn't believed Jesus, and was disappointed that the hope he had put in talking to this 'famous rabbi' were in his opinion a waste of time.

right?

if it is the second, then it's not his great wealth that makes him sad. so it has to be the first, because the Bible says this is why he was sad. which means he took to heart what Christ had told him.
so he's sad because he believes Christ -- because he knows he needs to do it. that's either sad because he's going to miss his great wealth, or sad because he knows he's going to have an hard time carrying out what he was told he ought to do.

which one is it?
in either case, he's not choosing his wealth over Christ. he's choosing righteousness and realizing either it involves suffering, or he's choosing righteousness and realizing it's something beyond his own ability to achieve.

what fits the narrative? he already knows that his keeping of the law hasn't earned him eternal life. that's the whole reason he came to Jesus, because he knows something is missing.

Would you agree that prior to the cross there was something they had to DO ?
Jesus commands him to DO something when the man is put in the postion ( Jesus stood before him ) to believe him ?
There is something a man must do before the crucifixion (see Matt. 5:28–31, 7:24, 16:24, ete.). There is something he must do in the coming tribulation (see Rev. 22:14, 14:12, 12:17). There is something he must do in the kingdom age (Zech. 14; Matt. 5–7). In this age there is something he must not do (Rom. 4:5; Gal. 5:4); there is Someone on whom he must believe (Rom .10:9–13)

21¶Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

luke 6.46
46¶And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[throughfaith]

it seems from the text he understood very well that he had not earned eternal life, that even tho he kept the law, it was insufficient.
but he came to Jesus asking what he must 'do' to inherit it - he had the mindset that it could be achieved through effort.

i do believe we should respond with exactly what Jesus said to him: "no one is good, but God alone"
is this not exactly how we begin the journey on the 'Romans road'? for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
certainly there is more, and Christ went on to do more -- if the young man did dispossess himself of his earthly riches, and became Christ's disciple, following Him, then he himself saw what more there is, too.

We have to be careful with " he had the mindset " . We can't read his mind .