'The rich young ruler ' confusion .
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S
I will get right on that. I need to go get something to eat first. Then I will collect the scriptures and present them in context and walk you through it hermeneutically using rules of biblical interpretation. I will expect you to concede or present as thorough an hermeneutic to refute it. Are you game?
S
That is a good rule of hermeneutics and the answers to those questions should be found in scripture or you will have to make a best guess based on reasonings that you present. May the best interpretation prevail.
When I reply later this evening I will be presenting my interpretation of what "enduring until the end" means as it relates to those that are saved. Since that was the last question you presented.
When I reply later this evening I will be presenting my interpretation of what "enduring until the end" means as it relates to those that are saved. Since that was the last question you presented.
Ok so zooming in to the texts in question .
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
So observations are .
Its the Book of Matthew .
And Jesus is speaking to the Jewish diciples about end times.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
So observations are .
Its the Book of Matthew .
And Jesus is speaking to the Jewish diciples about end times.
the Bible doesn't say that.
the Bible says he went away sad because he had great wealth.
for some reason having great wealth made him sad after he met Jesus. why?
i'd figure if you're choosing great wealth and you have it, that wealth isn't making you sad, but glad.
isn't it so that when you have the thing you choose, you are gladdened by it? does it make you sad that you have Christ? or happy?
if his view of his great wealth has changed in his heart, then the word of God was effective in it.
remember, seeing this, His disciples said wow, who can be saved? thinking this man's salvation was impossible, tho Christ had only said it was hard. but Jesus replied saying to them with God all things are possible.
who are you in the story, the unbelieving disciples thinking surely this man is damned, or the Lord saying it's impossible with men but possible with God? which is what He told that man from the beginning; only God is good.
and this is the gospel being preached in this event, again.
the Bible says he went away sad because he had great wealth.
for some reason having great wealth made him sad after he met Jesus. why?
i'd figure if you're choosing great wealth and you have it, that wealth isn't making you sad, but glad.
isn't it so that when you have the thing you choose, you are gladdened by it? does it make you sad that you have Christ? or happy?
if his view of his great wealth has changed in his heart, then the word of God was effective in it.
remember, seeing this, His disciples said wow, who can be saved? thinking this man's salvation was impossible, tho Christ had only said it was hard. but Jesus replied saying to them with God all things are possible.
who are you in the story, the unbelieving disciples thinking surely this man is damned, or the Lord saying it's impossible with men but possible with God? which is what He told that man from the beginning; only God is good.
and this is the gospel being preached in this event, again.
the Bible doesn't say that.
the Bible says he went away sad because he had great wealth.
for some reason having great wealth made him sad after he met Jesus. why?
i'd figure if you're choosing great wealth and you have it, that wealth isn't making you sad, but glad.
isn't it so that when you have the thing you choose, you are gladdened by it? does it make you sad that you have Christ? or happy?
if his view of his great wealth has changed in his heart, then the word of God was effective in it.
remember, seeing this, His disciples said wow, who can be saved? thinking this man's salvation was impossible, tho Christ had only said it was hard. but Jesus replied saying to them with God all things are possible.
who are you in the story, the unbelieving disciples thinking surely this man is damned, or the Lord saying it's impossible with men but possible with God? which is what He told that man from the beginning; only God is good.
and this is the gospel being preached in this event, again.
the Bible says he went away sad because he had great wealth.
for some reason having great wealth made him sad after he met Jesus. why?
i'd figure if you're choosing great wealth and you have it, that wealth isn't making you sad, but glad.
isn't it so that when you have the thing you choose, you are gladdened by it? does it make you sad that you have Christ? or happy?
if his view of his great wealth has changed in his heart, then the word of God was effective in it.
remember, seeing this, His disciples said wow, who can be saved? thinking this man's salvation was impossible, tho Christ had only said it was hard. but Jesus replied saying to them with God all things are possible.
who are you in the story, the unbelieving disciples thinking surely this man is damned, or the Lord saying it's impossible with men but possible with God? which is what He told that man from the beginning; only God is good.
and this is the gospel being preached in this event, again.
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the Bible doesn't say that.
the Bible says he went away sad because he had great wealth.
for some reason having great wealth made him sad after he met Jesus. why?
i'd figure if you're choosing great wealth and you have it, that wealth isn't making you sad, but glad.
isn't it so that when you have the thing you choose, you are gladdened by it? does it make you sad that you have Christ? or happy?
if his view of his great wealth has changed in his heart, then the word of God was effective in it.
remember, seeing this, His disciples said wow, who can be saved? thinking this man's salvation was impossible, tho Christ had only said it was hard. but Jesus replied saying to them with God all things are possible.
who are you in the story, the unbelieving disciples thinking surely this man is damned, or the Lord saying it's impossible with men but possible with God? which is what He told that man from the beginning; only God is good.
and this is the gospel being preached in this event, again.
the Bible says he went away sad because he had great wealth.
for some reason having great wealth made him sad after he met Jesus. why?
i'd figure if you're choosing great wealth and you have it, that wealth isn't making you sad, but glad.
isn't it so that when you have the thing you choose, you are gladdened by it? does it make you sad that you have Christ? or happy?
if his view of his great wealth has changed in his heart, then the word of God was effective in it.
remember, seeing this, His disciples said wow, who can be saved? thinking this man's salvation was impossible, tho Christ had only said it was hard. but Jesus replied saying to them with God all things are possible.
who are you in the story, the unbelieving disciples thinking surely this man is damned, or the Lord saying it's impossible with men but possible with God? which is what He told that man from the beginning; only God is good.
and this is the gospel being preached in this event, again.
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Mark s account .
17¶And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18¶And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20¶And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21¶Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22¶And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
(Matt. 19:23–30; Luke 18:24–30 )
23¶And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26¶And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27¶And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
28¶Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
17¶And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18¶And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20¶And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21¶Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22¶And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
(Matt. 19:23–30; Luke 18:24–30 )
23¶And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26¶And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27¶And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
28¶Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
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yes, either because he believed Jesus - and knew he had to do what Jesus asked, or because he didn't believed Jesus, and was disappointed that the hope he had put in talking to this 'famous rabbi' were in his opinion a waste of time.
right?
if it is the second, then it's not his great wealth that makes him sad. so it has to be the first, because the Bible says this is why he was sad. which means he took to heart what Christ had told him.
so he's sad because he believes Christ -- because he knows he needs to do it. that's either sad because he's going to miss his great wealth, or sad because he knows he's going to have an hard time carrying out what he was told he ought to do.
which one is it?
in either case, he's not choosing his wealth over Christ. he's choosing righteousness and realizing either it involves suffering, or he's choosing righteousness and realizing it's something beyond his own ability to achieve.
what fits the narrative? he already knows that his keeping of the law hasn't earned him eternal life. that's the whole reason he came to Jesus, because he knows something is missing.
right?
if it is the second, then it's not his great wealth that makes him sad. so it has to be the first, because the Bible says this is why he was sad. which means he took to heart what Christ had told him.
so he's sad because he believes Christ -- because he knows he needs to do it. that's either sad because he's going to miss his great wealth, or sad because he knows he's going to have an hard time carrying out what he was told he ought to do.
which one is it?
in either case, he's not choosing his wealth over Christ. he's choosing righteousness and realizing either it involves suffering, or he's choosing righteousness and realizing it's something beyond his own ability to achieve.
what fits the narrative? he already knows that his keeping of the law hasn't earned him eternal life. that's the whole reason he came to Jesus, because he knows something is missing.
yes that was a bit tongue in cheek, honestly. there are lots of 'devotional' books and pre-fab sermons out in our time advising that we 'find ourselves in the Bible' as a way to read it and apply it to our lives.
i think that usually we're the evil, unbelieving, idolatrous & faithless character in a particular series of events. when i read proverbs who do i identify with? the fool. every time.
i think that usually we're the evil, unbelieving, idolatrous & faithless character in a particular series of events. when i read proverbs who do i identify with? the fool. every time.
Something interesting is being observed in this thread, you have 2 types who opposed your thinking.
Posthuman represents one type that believes salvation was always by grace thru faith, apart from works, ever since Genesis 3.
Scribe represents the other type, one that believes salvation was always by grace thru faith AND works, from the beginning of time.
Either type would find your thinking to be in error.
Posthuman represents one type that believes salvation was always by grace thru faith, apart from works, ever since Genesis 3.
Scribe represents the other type, one that believes salvation was always by grace thru faith AND works, from the beginning of time.
Either type would find your thinking to be in error.
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this is inaccurate and i'm sorry that i have not made myself clear.
God clearly required of Israel many works. that's what makes them 'jealous' when He calls to Himself a bride from the Gentiles and doesn't require works from them. even from Abraham He required circumcision, but our circumcision is one He Himself performs, not one made by human hands. this is great generosity!
the truth is that i believe the entire Bible is about Christ, that He has had from the beginning one answer for sin, it being His own blood, that the gospel is "God is Salvation" - the Name of Jesus - and this is the ubiquitous message of all of the scripture. just because mysteries have been revealed in the advent of the Messiah doesn't mean the Messiah is plan B. this is the same from the beginning, which was, which is, and which is to come; the Lamb slain from the foundation. Emmanuel = Jesus
even so the covenant of a Law of works teaches the same thing, because the daily sacrifice is daily repeated, it not being sufficient to remove sin but only to cover it. see Hebrews 10
God clearly required of Israel many works. that's what makes them 'jealous' when He calls to Himself a bride from the Gentiles and doesn't require works from them. even from Abraham He required circumcision, but our circumcision is one He Himself performs, not one made by human hands. this is great generosity!
the truth is that i believe the entire Bible is about Christ, that He has had from the beginning one answer for sin, it being His own blood, that the gospel is "God is Salvation" - the Name of Jesus - and this is the ubiquitous message of all of the scripture. just because mysteries have been revealed in the advent of the Messiah doesn't mean the Messiah is plan B. this is the same from the beginning, which was, which is, and which is to come; the Lamb slain from the foundation. Emmanuel = Jesus
even so the covenant of a Law of works teaches the same thing, because the daily sacrifice is daily repeated, it not being sufficient to remove sin but only to cover it. see Hebrews 10
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